Being able to have my character get better, not just the gear

Discussion in 'Mechanics' started by Zygrograxgra, Jun 2, 2012.

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Being able to have my character get better, not just the gear

Discussion in 'Mechanics' started by Zygrograxgra, Jun 2, 2012.

  1. BrutorDragon

    BrutorDragon Cosmos Killer

    Thats good. With differnt tiers of skill trees?
      NotAnAnon likes this.
    • Ruzert

      Ruzert Void-Bound Voyager

      What if you need to use a lower "tier" weapon before being able to use the next?
      That way, a newly created character couldn't become ultra powerful if someone gives them the "best" weapons...
      The proficiency with a type of weapon would unlock the next "tier" weapon, so you need to use a basic sniper rifle many times before you can use a ultra railgun.
      If you try to use a high power weapon, it would have poor accuracy and damage.
      The proficiency function would be like this:
      - |------------------------------------------------------------------------*-| - Max proficiency
      - |---------------------------------------*----------------------------------|
      - |-------*------------------------------------------------------------------| - Decent/normal proficiency
      - |------*-------------------------------------------------------------------|
      - |-----*--------------------------------------------------------------------|
      - |----*---------------------------------------------------------------------|
      - |---*----------------------------------------------------------------------|
      - |--*-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
      - |-*------------------------------------------------------------------------| - Unused weapon proficiency

      - ______^300 uses______________________________________^6000 uses (amount of uses depend of the weapon's fire rate)
      • BrutorDragon

        BrutorDragon Cosmos Killer

        I could deal with that
        • NotAnAnon

          NotAnAnon Subatomic Cosmonaut

          Differn't tiers, and other skill tree specilizations. so there would be 3 choices of skill trees specilizing in differnt things such as: armor/weapon perks where you could make differnt upgrades on weapons/armor or you could be more profeceint with armor/weapons, physical skill tree where you could choose to have more health/stamina,faster movement speed, less falling damage. And finnaly there would be a Tools skill tree where you could become more proficient with differnt tools so you could, mine faster, lower grade tools could mine higher grade ores/minerals. And the better perks would be further along in the skill tree, therefore you would have to spend more talent points to get the better perks.
            MurkyDragon and Ffejeriah like this.
          • Ffejeriah

            Ffejeriah Void-Bound Voyager

            I like the idea with making a skill tree or perks system as long as it doesn't give any kind of combat edge over anyone.
              NotAnAnon likes this.
            • Xanivic

              Xanivic Void-Bound Voyager

              Why not have a skill point system where you accumulate points and apply them to attributes such as vitality, strength, dexterity, or haste? These are just examples of course but I'm sure you get the idea.
              • Wilcol

                Wilcol Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                I agree with this, but there is a problem. If you're an expert with rifles, but you'd have to start training again with melee, you may not want to swap. I'm not suggesting that you'll never be able to become good with melee, but just preference because of power.

                That said, if you're an expert with rifles, it's probably because you like using them.
                • Zentennen

                  Zentennen Void-Bound Voyager

                  Honestly, a grindfest? XP features progression, just like gear. Getting high-end gear and getting to max level is both about defeating monsters. As long as Chucklefish don't make leveling up too lengthy it'll be fine. Starbound has quests, a storyline, dungeon crawling and character progression, it already is an RPG/Sandbox game. I'm not against leveling, however, I don't think only leveling would serve any purpose, it gives the game progression and a sense of advancement, yes, but so does gear. Getting better gear already acts as a type of level-up. A better idea would be to put points into different categories so maybe you could customize your character to be more tanky/dps-ish or a healer or some other role (I just stated the normal RPG roles but I think you'd be able to play other playstyles, like a Crowd Control-based character), that would add more customization and, as long as getting the points is easy and usually comes without needing any type of grinding, will naturally come while playing the game; simply adding a new aspect to the game.
                    Cacame and starman like this.
                  • starman

                    starman Subatomic Cosmonaut

                    your arguments seem well thought-out, which I respect.

                    Items encourage exploration of the player while an XP system can potentialy do the opposite, this is because in some areas you will gain more XP than others (this could be due to a higher spawn rate, or due to a better of farming an enemy), and I feel that this game should encourage the exploration of a planet any way it can, as it is one of the main aspects of the game.
                    Pacing is an important aspect of any game, and having a levelup system effects the pacing drastically. If leveling up is too short then the game becomes too easy, if too long it then drags out and forces lengthy grindfest (which I think we both can agree we don't want). even if the leveling up time was perfect there is also the risk that the player can grind early and become massively overpowered for the rest to the game.)
                    leveling the character to a specific role can force the player to stay as that role, it may be a good idea when your with team mates but your not always going to be playing with them and solo fighting may not be suited to your role and would make it more diffcult. (it is acceptable in games like WoW and LoL because you will alway be playing with team mates)

                    I just prefer upgrades to the player to be more 'active'(double jump, jetpack etc.), and generally they're mainly restricted to item benefits.
                    I'm aware items can also give passive benefits, but are generally more simple to figure out which ones you want at the time and are far less complcated to the causal gamer. plus they offer the benefit of the 'trial and error' method.
                      Alpha_Squad likes this.
                    • Zentennen

                      Zentennen Void-Bound Voyager

                      That's no problem at all, just make cartain enemies stop giving you xp at a certain level. It has worked before in Shaiya, the problem with that game was that you leveled up too slow. If leveling up is too fast you'll stop getting xp from enemies, so as long as leveling isn't slow and just acts as an asset to the game than that will be fixed.
                      Roles are no problem, if a role is only good at defeating one type of enemy than the game's game developers don't how how to make roles. Roles are meant to make them effective in a certain event rather than against a certain enemy. With a sniper you'll stay back, however, you can still fight all enemeis, as long as you stay back. Also, if you REALLY are that picky, all you need to do is balance your points in all categories, giving you a balanced character.

                      They can also make respecing easy, so if you want to switch spec, it doesn't cost much. Even than, you can always make a balanced build.

                      So basically, I mitigate the points I found in your post:
                      Too fast xp makes you overpowered: You'll never be overleved because you need to fight stronger enemies to level up.
                      Too slow xp makes you underpowered: This is what beta testing is for, considering leveling up too fast isn't really going to ruin the game, than they can just speed up xp gain, problem solved.
                      Roles don't work in single-player: You can always either respec at a cheap price or just make a balanced character and put points in everything.

                      Leveling is something that brings a lot of fun and customization to a game, it would be a shame if we do not meet the potential this game has.
                      • starman

                        starman Subatomic Cosmonaut

                        a leveling-type thing is in the game already via the capture system (you can capture creatures and train them though battles), so I'm pretty sure that the tools to create a player-leveling mod is perfectly within reach, which would be good for both preferences (well at least i hope so). I'm confident that that this game would reach it's full potential if the modding supporting was as flexible as needed for such things. unfortunately the modding support wouldn't be realeased until after the inital release.
                        I just don't want the leveling to be forced on players that don't want it.
                        • starman

                          starman Subatomic Cosmonaut

                          Sorry I just realised that I was arguing against the level up thing,
                          but it fourm topic is about the level up suggestion, and what ideas could be used to build on it so I'll withdraw from the topic and let other people get back to the discussion.
                          • Jayne Cobb

                            Jayne Cobb Sandwich Man

                            They have stated that there will be no classes and that you level up via gear. There are enough people who don't want this that it makes more sense for this to wait till modding. The only leveling system that would be except-able to me would be the one for leveling up guns in borderlands where the more you use a weapon type the better you are with it, though only in minor things like +1% reloading skill or +2% damage when you level up.
                            • Zentennen

                              Zentennen Void-Bound Voyager

                              Forced? Honestly, it isn't going to change the game too much and it a mod will never work as well as it being implemented as a feature in the vanilla game. The game won't reach it's full potential without leveling.
                              • Rene6305

                                Rene6305 Star Wrangler

                                Why not switch up terrarias weapon system by not always getting it random but usually it starts with maybe normal or lower stats but can be upgraded for money or if you have the parts to do so.
                                  XRiZUX likes this.
                                • Gumdrop Meadowz

                                  Gumdrop Meadowz Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                                  I feel the issue that could come up with a level-up system is that it wouldn't be completely accessible for certain players, and that's fine. I, for one, am for a level-up system, but I feel for purposes of multiplayer scenarios, a person does not use their in-game characters. Whoever's server it is would be the multiplayer game's palette of weapons, armour, and tools that everyone could use for that particular match. Furthermore, certain items could be set on or off by choice.

                                  This way, the casual players who just want to play a few games with their friends in the Starbound universe can frolic with the more intense players who wish to level up and get absolutely everything possible in the game. Peace restored.
                                  • XRiZUX

                                    XRiZUX Spaceman Spiff

                                    I agree to this.

                                    I think having access to better weapons should be from either having all the materials you need to create these weapons, or having enough money to buy good weapons from a NPC. Also that you can get parts for the weapons (perks) that would improve the weapon. In that way it would be more beneficial to actually try to get these better weapons.

                                    I am not for a XP system though, I have done my endless grinding days in the past, its not fun to grind for endless hours just to have your character become a little stronger, in my opinion. It gets boring fast, for me its played to death with. :lod:

                                    Thats my opinions. :)

                                    Edit: (2)

                                    Also, I think if you want the character by itself to become better(without Gear and Weapons), it should be some kind of mutation. Personally I dont like to think that the character by itself becomes better just by grinding mobs for hours. So having different types of mutations would be a lot more interesting to me.

                                    Instead of getting more STR etc from XP I would rather see something like in Red Alert where you just get higher ranking, you know where you would get one star, two stars etc. And in that way maybe you are officially "qualified" to use better weapons. That would be more appealing if it did not take a week of grinding just to get a higher rank.
                                    • kidnamerock

                                      kidnamerock Big Damn Hero

                                      this system in my mind would be like
                                      if u walked a certain distance u get stonger and run faster
                                      if u have shoot a target in its vital spot ur accuracy increases
                                      if u do hand to hand hand combat ur strenth increases and if its in the game u be able to handle a guns recoil more easliy
                                      • Archangel

                                        Archangel Void-Bound Voyager

                                        I was just about to make a new thread on this. I'd love to see some sort of leveling system, while still keeping the game balanced somehow, even if it's not an actual "level-up" system, but some sort of system where the character grows personally (aside from equipment).
                                        The argument that one player could max out, and then destroy everything in their path with ease becomes invalid with such mechanics as mob difficulty scaling and things of that nature to help keep a moderate balance.

                                        This is the ONE and only thing that Starbound has not touched on that Terraria lacked. Every other feature that Terraria lacked that I sought after has been addressed by the Starbound crew (that I can see so far).
                                        • Kristopher

                                          Kristopher Phantasmal Quasar

                                          Sorry but i have to disagree with you.
                                          i would prefer NOT to have a levelling system cus alot of people might make mistakes with it and make some Characters OP.
                                          EDIT------
                                          Maybe the further you progress in the MAIN story you may get like higher jump/double jump faster etc. But once again i rather not have your character 'level up" even though i said tht up there but that's thee only soulotion i could think of
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