Horse with Boobs for Glitch (Poll: Yes or No?)

Wow, this was heading downhill when I left, and it's really snowballed since. I'll be keeping things civil.

I just wanted to make a few simple points which have occurred to me in the last few days:

1) The Starbound dev team rightfully takes pride in the lengths they go to to communicate with their fanbase, and to include them in the development process. I have confidence that they are aware of this debate, have seen the poll numbers, and will take this response into consideration as the AI mechanic develops.

2) That said, Word of God would be nice, and if it's well-considered, could put this debate to rest. The suggestion to give players multiple options when it comes to AI avatars has been made several times, and I believe it would be welcomed by the majority of players on both sides of the debate. Even if the devs feel differently, it would be nice to see them weigh in on this discussion. It's like how the White House is obligated to respond when a petition with enough signatures has been filed: when it's obvious that an issue is contentious, authorities need to demonstrate that they understand the concern, and that they have a plan to move forwards. We don't have the same kind of system here, but the factors that drive it are in play. Please, devs, show us that we've been heard.

3) It can be hard to hear critical feedback on your work. I've been working as a video producer for years; I know the sentiment well enough. I think it's important that the devs - and especially George, since he drew the horse in the first place - know that our issue isn't with the quality of the product, the idea behind it (as we understand it), or with them personally. We just feel that it isn't suited for its role... specifically, to be representative of a race which many of us have already come to love. Indeed, it feels like the Glitch have been singled out by being given such a bizarre avatar, when every other race is receiving something much more appropriate. For me personally, it's dampened my enthusiasm for the coming update... and very well could damage my opinion of Starbound and possibly even its devs, if these concerns are swept under the rug.

That's it. Take it for what you will.

 

sigh...
i hate being on the unbiased side
this sucks =/

they already spend the time drawning it and animating the frames and everything
throwing that out would be pointless and just wasting time
i dont understand how "if you dont like it dont use it" doent work here
its not like a overpowered weapon that others can use in PVP
its not a huge object that can be placed that admits anooying sound
its an AI
a picture that talks to you
and its olny for one race
and if you dont like it you can mod it out
thats whats so great about this game, how easy it is to mod

not everyone will like it ,but i feel it would be distasteful for the devs to backdown on there original vision,
it defently makes the devs unhappy

they shouldnt change it, it was the devs idea and it should stay that way


im suprised people are still talking about this horse and not the chinese stereotype that is the fu manchu fish
then again the fish is awesome looking

 

Well, i think criticism - part of designer's work. And fact, that "devs already draw it" and that "it makes devs unhappy" doesn't make the horse better nor as drawing, nor as idea. And, talking about unhappy: look around - there are hundreds (and they become thousands once patch released) of unhappy people that dislike that horse (some even dont want to play as glitch anymore). Is this horse-joke worth it?

 

the thing is we shouldn't have to mod it, sure it wont make a sound but im almost positive you wont have to look at it like us glitch players will have to the point the nay side is trying to make is it shouldn't be a forced joke it should be like the other ones although im fine with just ditching it all together for another race's A.I. (not my race but my ship/A.I.)

 

I agree with @janusforbeare on the Voice Of God aspect.
It is pretty obvious that the Devs at least have seen it since @mollygos spoke on page 4, and she is the Community Manager, so she would most likely alert the Dev's in some way or another.
A lot of valid points came up (both sides, I guess) that should be considered by the mods.
Other than the uncivil and repetitive arguments sprinkled among the thread, it is mostly a thread that can be pretty important to the community as a whole.

But it is serious.
Just because it is a stereotype, it is really fricking cool.
Every Fu Manchu is cool.

The horse, on the other hand, doesn't quite make sense to me and it has such a stupid expression that makes you think of nothing but the meme.
It truly doesn't matter if it isn't a meme, it looks like it, which means, to us, it's a meme.
Intention and execution had terribly blurred lines with this.

 

I don't hate the horse AI because it's a meme,I haven't even heard of a horse meme,but because it's just disgusting and reminds me of bestiality(and it looks goofy/retarded).And,like I said,I prefer my AI be awesome-looking,like the ones form other races.I wouldn't mind a badass serious-looking robo horse guy(WITHOUT boobs),but this is really disappointing.
As I said,I don't hate it because it's a "may may"(and it's not),but because it's so ugly.

Also, I cringe so hard when I see post like "L3L!Deel wit eet ,git sum hum0r!".

Hope you understand.

 

i just find it anooying how people keep thinking it based on the "meme"

even after the devs sead IT WASNT

its also not a joke, you dont know that

so stop saying it

its mostlily lore related, YOU DONT KNOW THAT ITS NOT, the glich lore hasnt been made yet

(and dont say shewhorning an horse in the lore is BS) it was propley planed from the start

besides you can prove me wrong intl a dev conferms it isnt based on the lore (the lore that hasnt been writen yet)


also so lets get this right...

if the horse was a man, it would be better?
im sencing some sexism in this thread

consitering the horse is the olny female AI, it would suck to see it removed =p

how disapointing

 

Hey sex in the city references in starbound are a great thing

 

Are people pronouncing "meme" as "may may" now? That omni post....I think I heard TotalBiscuit say it.....errg.

 

Alright, let me try once more to explain why people are hating this thing and want it changed and what possible solutions might be:

So from what I can see we have now multiple options (or well the devs have):

1. Keep this... abomination in and dissatisfy ~60%-66% of the people ONLY on here. God knows how it would look like on Steam or how they will react to this. Well from the posts they are currently doing there they might not be happy to see this either... So that means that a minority of ~30%-35% get what they want EFFECTIVLY FORCING the others to either use this thing as an AI, stop playing as Glitch at all or rely on 3rd party mods to get rid of it. It even creeps people out, just saying... Oh and that would be like in almost every other situation, a minority supresses a bigger group. Great. Keep on going with that, IRL aswell. I love seeing things falling apart.


2. Get rid of this thing, then similar to 1 having to deal with ~35% dissatisfied people while the rest is happy and can move on. Its basicly like case 1 just vise versa and assumeable less damage (65 > 35, thats what I have learned in math I believe... not sure, maybe need a proof from a professor for this proposition...). Again it doesnt matter what they say or what they claim to be... what the recipent, that means us, sees in that and how we accept that is important. If a good chunk of people see again a meme, or anything negativ with it and on top of that most of them see the same negativ thing then its likely that they are not making that up to harass the devs. Come on, whats more likely: That ALL of those people are just trolls and want to harass people or that they are seriously disgusted by seeing this thing after getting some nice stuff they also consider high quality work so its not like they would hate everything they do or so, just before somebody comes up with that thought.


3. Do nothing about it and implement something later which the other side, or shall better say group of people dislike and then dont care at all about what they say either.


4. Find a compromiss which is probaly most viable:

This means: The horse can stay. But it should be altered. Heres an example: First this damn facial expression must be altered into something serious. An expression which doesnte remember people on a stupid meme or creeping them out in a negativ way. Maybe replacing the tooth with sharp metal fangs/teeth and 1 eye being replaced with a robotic one, right side of the head made out of metal platings etc would be a good start. Basicly turning it into a "cyborg horse". Then they may even keep the melons on its chest, some people like melons... even if they are on horses. The eyes must be altered certainly aswell. Anything that remembers people of that has to be altered into something acceptable. If the horse WOULD be a mechanical one like they use in their castles it would be kinda acceptable and and considered serious. So the entire idea has not to be given up, but certainly altering it might be better for a good ammount of people.

Not that I want to deny that I wouldnt want to see their "solution" for the horseboobthing first, I would like to see how they are going to explain this in the lore, then either getting myself some kind of experimental exoskeleton out of "biophysics lab" and facepalming myself with the enhanced hand of mine or saying "Wow thats genious" (or both). With higher chances of the first case happening. Well I rather have given an explanation now instead of saying "it is lore friendly." but not saying how. Sure alot of stories get written along the lines. But if something "extreme" like this pops up then it has to be explained to a certain degree to the people. Not just saying "Nope its not memebased. Period.". Thats not a satisfying answer... and tbh I had the impression that they saw it backfired and havent found an excuse. Thats just my personal expression, and thats what I would do if I wouldnt have much time. Nothing to blame on that strategy if thats the case whatsoever. Anyways: Finding a compromiss might be satisfying for both parties... or atleast for a majority of both parties, since their are always "extremists"... in this case saying either: "IT ST4Y5 A5 1T 5S 0R 1T 5UCK5, 1 4M M3G4 1337 H4X0RU5" or "Nope this thing is a conspiracy and abomination, get the heck out with it or I think I will turn into a sleeper agent over night nuking my toilet with Caesium Pellets!!!" just to slightly exagurated both poles a little.


5. Get me some kind of tear generator and bring me to a world I consider as good. The rest will be fixed in almost no time.



Alright I am tired blah blah blah, need rest, having nothing to counter the sleep then blah blah blah, stupid refernce like everyone else does.

You got what I meant. Going to answer only to people atleast attempting to understand the other side, everyone else is going to get straight ignored like they apparently do with people thinking like me aswell. I am not talking to walls. Nor to false vacuums. Nor about false vacuums. Nor trying to make Helium react with Iod which is just impossible.

 

no its just a joke
they were just saying it that way sarcasticly

if you can give me an unbiased statements for 1 and 2 it might be right
your obviously biased so you try to make it much worse then it is
it makes it hard to take it seriously

i like it honestly but i can see why people will hate it

you should move to amarica, youd love it

 

And you are not biased?
If this is all about being biased (AKA having opinions) we would all need to stop posting and never do anything on any forum again.

Everything is biased.
We might as well not even have a word for biased, because the only truly unbiased are ones who know nothing (AKA infants), but their sense for a Mother means they are biased indeed.

Sorry to say this, but all of your arguments are built upon straw, and it took brick to keep off the Big Bad Wolf.

 

i see the argument on both sides
most of the others dont

here you go: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/biased

 

Instead of attacking the credibility of people who disagree with you - which is pretty obviously a last-ditch attempt to sway people in the absence of valid arguments - why not just walk away? After all, the majority of people aren't arguing that this particular avatar should be removed. All we're saying is that, as people who enjoy playing as a certain type of character, we don't want to be stuck with an avatar whose association with those characters is tenuous at best. Odds are that you'll still be able to get your hands on it if you like anthropomorphic horses that much. Why try to force it on the 2/3 of us who feel that it doesn't have anything to do with the Glitch?

 

Are we still implying that Horse Lady is a joke about how "Sarah Jessica Parker looks like a horse"? Aside from how a number of proponents insist that it's not supposed to be a meme or joke, that's very derogatory.

My impression is that many (most?) people who post here (and the 2nd of June, 2014: Dev Blog GeorgeV! thread) do not read all the posts. So, we get confusion. And, as some have complained, we do see some rehashing - saying the same things over and over.

Actually... no. "May may" is just the shorthand. On the previous page, Lecic referred to this horse meme by it's official name, "le epik may mays".
Here, Let Me Google That For You.

In response, I'd like to refer to this page of the El Goonish Shive webcomic, where a news reporter dubs a new superheroine - on live TV - by the silly "Cheerleadra" name, based on what the Internet came up with in about 4 seconds flat. (BTW: The name sticks with her, probably for the rest of her superhero career.) As the reporter said:

It's funny because it's true!

Memes and jokes are very common on the Internet. People see what they want to see. And the intent does not have to be to insult for something to be seen as insulting or politically incorrect. Intent is not everything.

Many people (as attested to both by this poll and comments) do not care whether or not Horse With Boobs {HWB} was intended as a joke. And they do not care whether or not it was based on a meme. The fact that it very strongly resembles a joke and very strongly resembles a popular meme is what bothers them.

An excuse is just that: an excuse - even if it is a very, very good excuse. It is what it is (or appears to be, in this case).

I do not blame anyone for creating this. I'm not angry, either. The fact that so many are ardent supporters of HWB (Horse With Boobs) proves that it has struck a chord with a segement of the fanbase. As such, one has to respect it as having some degree of artistic merit, even if HWB fans are not the majority.

But the fact remains that it is so upsetting to some players that they have sworn off playing Glitch if this comes to pass.

By that logic, you can't prove that it's lore-related, either. At least, not until Glitch lore gets changed to include this reference. Meanwhile, most players will do doubletakes, gawk at the screen, and scratch their heads over this - especially once the ship AI goes live.

AFAIC, whether or not Horse With Boobs was planned from the start is mostly irrelevant. Requiring players to have an encyclopedic knowledge of obscure Glitch lore (which has yet to be written) just to appreciate how HWB fits the Glitch theme is... it's asking too much of the player.

It may be canon material. It may even have a planned plot purpose. But that, in and of itself, doesn't make it appropriate; for the Glitch or the game. (There's a trope for this, but I can't recall the name for it ATM...)

At best, HWB is to Glitch appropriateness like a Rube Goldberg machine is to a simple device designed to move an object from A to B: It is horribly, needlessly complex. And like having to explain a joke ruins the humor, having to explain appropriatness means it's too much of a stretch.

This is besides other issues, such as been super creepy and pug ugly.

This has been addressed before. AFAIK, the answer was overwhelmingly: No, this is not about sexism. I'd be perfectly happy to see more female AI avatars - pleased, even. (Though, as I said, gender shouldn't matter to a virtual AI interface.)

It's not about sex or gender. The breasts serve to show how the avatar is clearly humanoid, with human-like traits. If you remove them, then it looks like a regular horse:

And then there's the thing about the eye and mouth...

There's just something about HWB that causes revulsion in many of us. And I honestly suspect it is in some way related to the Uncanny Valley effect.

 

well the other 5 races have AI based on there lore....so......
well besides human i guess? idk...

most of the arguments seem to be on removing it, atlest thats how i been reading it

 

I get that; neither side is exactly a united front. There are mixed messages. Your argument may be valid.

That said, the work has already been done. The logical conclusion in the face of the opposition that has been shown is to create multiple ship AI items, which allow the player to select their avatar. That way, everyone gets their pick of the litter, and nothing has to be thrown out. I believe that the majority of people support the idea of choices in this matter, because it only makes sense. It's not like we're restricted to our racial armour, for instance. Why restrict players when it comes to their ship AI - the one NPC they'll interact with more than any other?

Rainbow, I hope you understand that, despite the fact that I disagree with the idea of forcing this AI upon the Glitch, I understand where you're coming from. It's not a bad piece of art, and there is humour to it. I just don't want the one race in Starbound that I like more than any other to be turned into a complete joke. If people want their own characters to be jokes, more power to them. It's their game as much as it is mine.

However, it's my game as much as it is theirs. I shouldn't be forced to live with a ridiculous AI just because 1/3 of the playerbase finds it funny.

 

im all for being able to switch to any AI you want
i think its just a waste to throw it out

the thing is if the game ships with it in then people who dont like it can remove it
if it isnt in the game when it ships then its lost forever and no one gets it

unless the devs uploads the art as a mod witch propley wont happen

but yah switchable ais would be cool

 

Works for me. Devs, there seems to be room for common ground here.

Just saying, if you want to please the majority of players, please, give us options.

 

i personaly think tho we should save that ship ai chinging thing to another update
i dont think the devs need anything else added to there plate right now

they already have more then they can chew =p