Sandbox Mode and/or "Skip to FTL"

Discussion in 'Mechanics' started by Knight9910, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. Knight9910

    Knight9910 Existential Complex

    I posted about this before, thought I should make it an official request.

    Also, just to get this out of the way...

    BEFORE YOU HIT REPLY -
    * READ THE ENTIRE MESSAGE
    * CHEAT CODES WILL BE IGNORED
    * WHINING ABOUT HOW "USELESS" THE SUGGESTION IS WILL BE IGNORED
    * INSULTS AND INSINUATIONS ABOUT HOW I NEED TO "LEARN TO PLAY THE GAME" WILL BE REPORTED TO THE MODS


    Now then...

    What My Problem Is

    Everyone knows that tutorial levels in games can be annoying. You want to get to the real meat of the game and sitting through a level explaining how to move and attack is boring. I don't really think I need to even explain this, clearly Chucklefish gets it, since they gave us the option to skip the Intro Level if we choose.

    The problem is, the Intro Level isn't enough in my book. Everything up to and including the Erchius Mine mission can be seen as an extended tutorial. The real fun of the game is in exploring and building.

    Now I get it. You're establishing the story, forcing the player to learn advanced game mechanics, etc... but primarily what you're doing is creating an arbitrary barrier, locking away the actual game behind what is in essence an extended tutorial level. This is especially a problem for people like me who want to create multiple characters and really don't feel like going through this whole progression every single time.

    What I Want

    I would like a button on character creation, similar to the "skip intro level" button, possibly labelled as "sandbox mode" or "skip to FTL." This button would do three things.
    1. Start the character off with a fully repaired ship, with FTL drive but no other upgrades, those would still have to be earned.
    2. Start the character off with access to the Outpost and shops opened, as if they had just beaten the Erchius Mine.
    3. Start the character off with enough fuel to reach another star, such as their already established homeworld.
    4. Start the character with the Matter Manipulator's Scan Mode enabled.
    Naturally, since this would break game progression, it would probably be locked from the beginning, and become unlocked only after the player had already beaten the Erchius Mine once.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2016
    Ulyssa, TheNewTeddy, Jappards and 2 others like this.
  2. lazarus78

    lazarus78 The Waste of Time

    /admin
    /spawnitem shipT3
    /admin

    Consume the item that spawns. That will set your ship to Tier 3, which has FTL. Problem solved.
     
    sagenth likes this.
  3. Knight9910

    Knight9910 Existential Complex

    Please stay on topic. "Why don't you just cheat?" is not a legitimate argument.
     
    TheNewTeddy, Maggoats and Pingeh like this.
  4. lazarus78

    lazarus78 The Waste of Time

    Adding in an option to automatically start at that point is not the same effective thing? What makes your method better when the same effective thing can be achieved already?
     
  5. Blake81

    Blake81 Cosmic Narwhal

    I agree with the OP; cheats are a VERY DANGEROUS thing with the potential of ruining your game experience FOREVER.

    They're like drugs; you use them once out of need or curiosity, and then, whenever you're having a hard time to find something or get past some area, there's always that niggling lil' voice in the back of your head saying ''Y'know, you could just use spawn those blocks or use admin immortality to not die to those mobs.'', and if you cave in and do it, it won't be just that one time. Next time you realize, you'll be always immortal and spawn everything you need without ever exploring or looking for it.

    I know this well because I abused cheats on the Nightlies, as they were a NEED to get past the broken/incomplete progression system. And now, I'm like a reformed ''Cheat Junky'' who still can't cope with his withdrawal; on my first 1.0 playthru, whenever I'm having a hard time, I hear that lil' niggling voice telling me to use /admin every time I get just a little frustrated.

    Cheats should NEVER be an option or necesary to accomplish something.
     
    SpeedXaaa, Pingeh and Knight9910 like this.
  6. lazarus78

    lazarus78 The Waste of Time

    Hardly. Yes thay can cause problems, but you have to try real hard to screw up a save and make it completely unplayable.

    You may be one of those kinds of people, but using commands to achieve a desired goal is indeed an option. If you are so against using commands, then mods must be off limits too, no?
     
  7. Knight9910

    Knight9910 Existential Complex

    I would also put it like this.... if your tire goes flat, you use your spare. It'll work temporarily, get you where you need to go... but it isn't a legitimate replacement for a new tire. Spares are usually too small, and not as well constructed. This is the same way. Sure, using cheats can get you through irritating spots, but they're never an adequate substitute for a legitimate fix.

    Also, if you walked into an Auto Shop and the mechanic told you to "just use the spare" you'd think he was crazy, right? Same concept, again. This isn't the Cheat Codes Forum. This is the Suggestions Forum. It's for suggestions. I'm making a suggestion. You can discuss that suggestion, but offering cheat codes is irrelevant to the discussion.

    But also, yeah, what Blake said.
     
    Valardy and Maggoats like this.
  8. lazarus78

    lazarus78 The Waste of Time

    Your analogy doesnt quite hold up. What about those cars whos spare tire is the same exact kind of tire as the rest? They are intended as replacements, not temporary use. They do the same exact thing by cutting out the middleman. Same thing here. Using the command to get the Tier 3 ship covers most of your desired suggestion. Other commands can do the rest too.
     
  9. Blake81

    Blake81 Cosmic Narwhal

    What I meant by that is that usage of Cheats creates dependence, not that it actually BREAKS the game.

    Oh and Knight9910, here's my master no-cheats method to jump straight to sandbox:

    1- Create your first character and have him/her go through the slog until the point it's either strong enough, with enough loot stored or whatever other milestone you might wish to set.
    2- Create your new character and look up at the Coords of his/her starting planet (you can do this right from the start).
    3- Log back on your first character and fly over those Coords, and place a container at the spawnpoint with all those things that your new character might need (High-grade weapons and armor, fuel, Core Fragments, etc) so it can just blaze through the slog without having to gather all of it.

    I did this for all my 9 characters on the previous Stable, and it made everything quite easy. You still need to go through the slog with your first char, but at least you just do it once. Also, since the universe is shared between all your chars, you can just have them live in the same super base you've built instead of creating additional ones (unless that's what you want).
     
  10. Efrim

    Efrim Pangalactic Porcupine

    Man I must have misread the OP. I thought he was asking for an additional game mode to be integrated into the game; not asking for a console workaround.
     
    Valardy, kmg90, JudasFm and 5 others like this.
  11. Maggoats

    Maggoats Space Hobo

    I made my account just to make sure I get my post in here about this.

    I don't want to go through a long line of tutorial missions every single time I make a character. I agree that there should be an option for those who want to be able to get straight to the sandbox part of the game (which, mind you, is mostly the important part).

    It's probably simple to implement and a very constructive addition to the game's functionality to allow players to jump right into the game.
     
    Pingeh likes this.
  12. lazarus78

    lazarus78 The Waste of Time

    And I informed him that the same results can already be achieved in game. He is asking for potato, and I tell him we have potahto. Maybe different in name, but same thing in the end.
     
  13. Efrim

    Efrim Pangalactic Porcupine

    No. It's not the same thing; since "can already be achieved in game" is not the same as a baked in feature. This is a suggestion forum and he was suggesting a simple option at character creation. I'm in agreement with him.
     
    Knight9910 likes this.
  14. Knight9910

    Knight9910 Existential Complex

  15. TheNewTeddy

    TheNewTeddy Astral Cartographer

    I support this. Why depend on cheats or mods to fix something that people want to see in the core game?
     
    Valardy likes this.
  16. sagenth

    sagenth Pangalactic Porcupine

    Why ask for dev time to be *wasted* on something that can ALREADY be accomplished?
     
    Demogarose and lazarus78 like this.
  17. Knight9910

    Knight9910 Existential Complex

    That question has already been answered. If you have nothing to contribute to the discussion, leave.
     
  18. lazarus78

    lazarus78 The Waste of Time

    Fortunately, you don't get to dictate who gets to post here.

    Providing alternative methods of achieving the suggestion is valid and on topic. That is kinda the point of a forum. Discussion and the exchange of information. I provided information on how to achieve your desired goal without needing to waste developer's time. It is a win-win for both parties. You call it "cheating", but so would it be if they put in a specific option just for it. It is the same thing by a different name.
     
    Demogarose likes this.
  19. sagenth

    sagenth Pangalactic Porcupine

    Okay you want me to contribute. I contribute this: http://www.forbes.com/2006/12/10/video-games-cheating-tech-cz_mc_games06_1212consalvo.html

    I hereby take the following quotes as reasons your denial of this functionality is just that a denial.
    1. "Individual gamers set boundaries for what they will or won’t do, and there are several general reasons why people cheat."
    2. "Yet in researching why people cheat and how they cheat, I’ve found that, much of the time, cheating actually implies a player is actively engaged in a game and wants to do well, even when the game fails them."
    3. "There are four major reasons why players cheat in a game: they’re stuck, they want to play God, they are bored with the game, or they want to be a jerk."
    4. "The overwhelming reason most players cheat is because they get stuck." - This applies here, because you are *stuck* deciding whether to waste your time.. or come up with an alternative.
    5. "As counter-intuitive as it may seem, cheating can sometimes be good for you. It can keep you active and involved in a game, reward game play and allow expert players to teach others. It can indicate to developers when games are too hard or flawed, and it can even help a community form."
    Now I am sure there is a time and place for this suggestion, but I personally would prefer time be spent on new features rather than it be spent making existing features more accessible for the morally righteous. Now beyond debating the worthiness of this suggestion at this moment in time, there isn't really a whole lot of discussion that can actually take place.
    >I propose the game receive an update allowing players to skip past introductory game place in its entirety.
    >>I agree/disagree.
    End of discussion. Beyond deciding where to actually skip to, which is an irrefutable decision (imho). Obviously you'd want to skip just past the erchius mission. Perhaps even add all the ark vendors as well. Beyond that what can be discussed?

    Also I agree with Lazarus' argument. That this has not gone strictly off topic. Your suggestion can be accomplished in game, today, within 5 minutes of typing. Perhaps your suggestion should have been to skip to the end of the game, where you'd be able to replay any missions you want. To me that sounds more like a sandbox than what you've proposed so far. How is that for contributing?
     
    Jerln and lazarus78 like this.
  20. Knight9910

    Knight9910 Existential Complex

    First of all, yes, thank you for making an actual legitimate argument this time, instead of a snarky one-liner. Since you have actually taken the time to make a real argument this time, I will take the time to make a real rebuttal.

    Simply put, this is the suggestions forum. It is the place for players of the game to make suggestions for what they would like to see in the game. That is what I am doing. I am making a suggestion, which the developers can choose to implement or ignore. Now, if I wanted you to give me advice as to how to accomplish what I want using the resources currently available, I would not have posted this in the suggestions forum. I would have posted it under "Starbound FAQs, Q&A, and General Help". But I didn't, because I'm not looking for advice, I'm making a suggestion. That is why I say that your post is off-topic. Because it is not contributing to the discussion of this suggestion.

    In fact, I'll go a step further - what you're offering isn't an answer at all, it's what you do when you have no legitimate answer. No, you're right about one thing - cheating in a game isn't automatically bad and it doesn't make you an evil person if you do it. In fact - and sit down because this might shock you - I've already done what you've suggested several times now. But using cheat codes is not the same thing as getting a legitimate fix. It's what you do when no legitimate fix exists. It's a stopgap - a temporary measure to use until a more adequate solution can be found and implemented.

    Now, there is one argument you've given that does also bear answering, and that is that you don't think the developers should spend time with this when there are many more important fixes to be made. My counter to that is simply that you are severely overestimating the amount of time that this suggestion would take to implement. Speaking as a person who has actual programming experience I can tell you that it really would not take very long at all. The actual work would be:

    1. Figuring out all of the flags associated with the skip in question.
    2. Putting a button that checks those flags to "on."

    That's it. That's all it would take. Given a mostly clean set of source codes and a skilled programmer, this could be easily implemented by a single person over a lunch break. Under no circumstances should it cause any noticeable delay to the development of new content or bug fixes.

    Now then, one last note - what you're doing is not acceptable. It is very rude. I don't go into your threads and smack you in the face with how stupid and useless I think they are.

    If you do disagree, then give a legitimate and constructive suggestion for how the idea can be improved, and if I disagree then the answer is for you to go away. Stalking the thread and harassing the poster until they agree with you is not acceptable, especially not after you've already received multiple rebuttals to your argument. This goes equally to both you and Lazarus.

    Let me make this absolutely clear: don't think I'm an easy target for trolling just because I'm humoring you. I'm trying to play nice because the moderators asked me to, but I am not going to stand for harassment or needling. If you have nothing to contribute to this discussion then GO. AWAY.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2016
    Valardy likes this.

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