If the Wizard ever becomes marriageable...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Relenanator, Dec 6, 2016.

  1. Relenanator

    Relenanator Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    So I've always been a fan of the Wizard since the very first time I saw him in game and I think he would make a delightfully compelling marriage candidate. However, the more I thought about his (heavily hinted at) backstory, the more I started to question whether that would actually be a good idea.

    First of all, if the theory of Abigail being his daughter ends up being true in a future update, I feel like that would be one of the most awkward as hell things to happen in the game. It would be like "Hey Abby, I know you just found out that Pierre isn't your biological father and that your real father is that Wizard guy in the tower, but I really want to marry him. I hope you're okay with that."

    And that's not to mention that your character is 'supposedly' around the same age as all the other younger residence in Pelican Town (At least it seems that way from how all the adult characters talk and address you in game). So, you would essentially be marring your friends dad. Eww.

    Also, if Abigail really is the Wizards daughter, that would leave the door wide open to all kinds of unseemly and scandalous implications involving the Wizard and her mother Caroline. It would be easy infer that either one or both of them would have been cheating on their significant others at the time. However, even if you give them the benefit of the doubt and assume the Wizard was divorced and Caroline was not with Pierre yet, the fact that they would both decide to bounce from one relationship to another (In the Wizards case, from his ex to Caroline, and in Caroline's case, from the Wizard to Pierre) makes them look flighty and morally dubious. It could see this kind of narrative killing off whatever good sentiments the player may have had about them.

    I know that Concerned Ape wants to make the residence of Pelican Town flawed and well rounded characters but this would be drama on the scale of Hollywood Reality TV shows and that's not the kind of drama I want to see in my Stardew Game.

    Don't misunderstand me, I'm still hoping that the Wizard will one day become an available marriage candidate. My point is that, if Concerned Ape eventually decides to make the Wizard marriageable one day, then it wouldn't be right for Abigail to be his daughter too.

    But this is just how I feel about it. What do you guys think?

    I hope your reading this Concerned Ape :poke:
      Last edited: Dec 6, 2016
    • Hadvar23

      Hadvar23 Void-Bound Voyager

      • Hadvar23

        Hadvar23 Void-Bound Voyager

        Don't forget Razmodius ex wife. If you marry him she not only leave void eggs lol
          WilliamZ likes this.
        • benevapwnz

          benevapwnz Void-Bound Voyager

          I stand by my theory that Caroline is actually the Wizard's daughter and I won't budge! :viking:
          • StardewPally

            StardewPally Big Damn Hero

            I don't think an affair is Hollywood Reality TV drama, but in fact the exact neighbourhood that you live in right now level drama. Infidelity is shockingly common and the chances that you live nearby somebody that is or has cheated on their significant other is probably higher than you think. If that's the case then a plot twist like this is exactly the kind of storyline that makes SDV characters relatable. It also introduces questions about morality as well as human complexity. Are Caroline and the Wizard horrible people for cheating? Would Caroline have a reason? (perhaps Pierre suffers from depression, driving his wife away who is only seeking warmth and comfort b/c she is a human being as well and needs support like any of us regardless if she's married or not - and can't find that warmth at home) Were Caroline and Pierre even married at the time? Can we fix a rocky marriage? Is it any of our business anyway? Who are we to judge, we who romance every eligible bachelor and bachelorette in town.

            This is a little too in-depth thinking for a lighthearted video game but it's these sorts of interactions that make us think about it in the first place. Life is complicated and it's hard to reflect philosophically on our own life (too hard, hits too close to home) so sometimes it's nice to have a video game, or book, or movie imitate real life to give us a chance to ask these questions and perhaps seek some answers.
              Neosaneo likes this.
            • Stardew Poptarts

              Stardew Poptarts Tentacle Wrangler

              I actually like the idea of being able to have some of the older members of the valley as marriage material. Age gaps between adults in a romantic relationship are fairly common, and I think it could add a really interesting story element to reveal to Abigail that he is her father, and the player is a step-parent upon marriage. ( Provided that Abigail is in fact his daughter. ) Not only would it make a good story element, but I think it would be good for those that come from homes were their birth parents are not together.

              The only really damaging relationships that could open up would be Pierre, Caroline, Demetris, and Robin. ( A lot of players seem to really like Robin. ) I could see as where breaking up a marriage would be heartbreaking all around, but still within the realm of possibility. What happened between Razmodius and Caroline was somewhere near two decades ago, so I'm not sure that would make for a morally dubious nature.
              • Relenanator

                Relenanator Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                Cheating is a common occurrence in real life but that's not entirely what makes it Hollywood drama, nor is it the age gap between your character and the Wizard either. The problem is that not only does he have a kid around the same age as you but you both know eachother and are on relatively good terms (at least before she finds out you're marrying her biological father).

                It's obviously not the worst thing in the world but people will start to call your principles into question. There is a reason why society looks down on a parent having a child and then wanting to have sex/a relationship with someone the same age as said child. And this is something that the rich and famous are known for doing.

                What makes SDV characters "relatable" is that they have understandable and forgivable personality flaws along with interesting backstories that make them unique individuals. Do you really think people are going to go around thinking "The Wizard and Caroline were cheaters all along? Wow, adultery is so relatable! What an interesting and unique plot twist to have. It makes them so life like." :nope:

                I honestly never expected to be writing about the ethical ramifications of possible cheating between two fictional game characters but this is where the conversation has led, so hear I go.

                There is never an excuse for cheating. Period. And it's a little disturbing that you're suggesting there's some morale and philosophical gray area that people should think about and consider. It wouldn't mater if Pierre was a horrible boyfriend and Caroline decided to cheat on him because she was miserable, wanted revenge, or simply fell in love with the Wizard. Two wrongs never make a right and if they're relationship was that bad in the first place, then she should have gotten some courage, had some self respect, and ended it.

                I'm not saying any of this is easy and we humans tend to chicken out in relationships the most, due to the amount of emotional investment we put into them and the eminence fear of loneliness/rejection. But that doesn't make it "complex" , that just means people aren't brave enough or don't care enough to stick to their moral principles and take the high ground.

                Also, keep in mind that Stardew Valley is supposed to be a feel good game where you make friends with everyone and go on magical adventures. I mean, It's a game where the biggest jerk in town is only that way because he's stuck in a miserable loop and hates himself for it. And as far as we know, Shane never stabbed anyone in the back, broke a promises of monogamy, or completely threw away his dignity and self respect out of selfishness, which makes him easily redeemable in the eyes of the player. Introducing a narrative where the Wizard and Caroline are cheaters would alienate them from lots of players and that's completely counterproductive in a game where one of the main components is to make friends with everyone.

                Keep in mind that cheating can often times destroy a person and I cant imagine CA (a devoted married husband himself) ever wanting the Wizard or Caroline associated with something so horrible and mean-spirited. :nope:

                The point of the heart system is for your character to make friends with the people of Pelican Town and get to know their stories. If you're going around only"romancing very eligible bachelor and bachelorette in town", then that's on the player, not the farmers character or the friendship manics.

                Why would anyone want to be a step-parent to someone of the same age and their possible best friend? I mean, it's not the worst thing, but don't you really think that this wouldn't be awkward people? :confused:

                If they just went out while they were both single at the time, I wouldn't have a problem with that at all. The problem for me would be Abigail for reasons I already stated above. If Jas ended up being his daughter, I would have no problem being an in game step parent.:nod:
                  Last edited: Dec 8, 2016
                • Star Girl

                  Star Girl Big Damn Hero

                  I've wanted the Wizard to become marriageable since day one.
                  • ChaosAzeroth

                    ChaosAzeroth Existential Complex

                    I don't feel like this is the place to discus cheating in any real capacity tbh...

                    That being said, honestly IDK why he shouldn't be marriageable. Then again I want Krobus and the Dwarf to be too so...x3
                    • Relenanator

                      Relenanator Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                      I think when I started this thread, I was expecting people to come up with interesting workarounds to the problem "if Abigail is the Wizards daughter" and "what that would mean if he became a marriage candidate". I simply wanted to point out the flaws of this narrative and have people throw interesting ideas around. I really didn't enjoy writing that last post and I had to re-realize that having expectations are stupid; especially on the internet.:(

                      Interesting, :unsure: How would that work? Would he just sleep at your house and then go to the mines during the day?
                        Last edited: Dec 8, 2016
                      • Ambaaargh

                        Ambaaargh Hard-To-Destroy Reptile

                        I admit I like to come up with various other headcanons for the wizards kid because I just find it more exciting and interesting. Like maybe Caroline wanted a kid with Pierre but it wasn't working so she went to the wizard all "hey can you help" and he was all "sure. Here's a purple Parsnip. Put it under your bed during the full moon and you'll soon have a kid" or something wacky and magical. Or that his ex wife the witch took their kid and hid them away in SDV and the wizard is currently there because he recently found out that somewhere in this valley is his kid but he has no idea who. Or that Caroline secretly IS the witch and at night she like moonlight curses and hexes and has a hut off to the side, and she married Pierre after breaking it off with the wizard but didn't realize she had been preggers. Or that since the wizard has that device of "make yourself look like anyone" he could have been Robin's first husband and faked his death due to needing to return to his magic duties. Or any number of things. It's fun for me, and partially because its like...I just feel with how there is all these "hints" about it in a game where everything else has been fairly up front and open about their troubles and woes...that it feels more out of place.

                        Like the game makes no punches hidden when it comes to Pam or Alex's dad or Sebastion's friction with Demetrius or Shane's struggles...so for it to suddenly be all tee-hee coy and mysterious about this just to me feels a bit off so I'm more inclined to feel there is actually more to it. And that the whole hints and implications are a red herring.
                        But mostly because well...it's more fun to me.

                        But I also admit I'm in the camp that I kind of wish they did more with the wizard in general. Its like he lives so out of the way he's almost always the last dude I befriend, he had all this cool potential what with being part of the magical aspect of the game but its also like....eeeeeeeghn...he doesn't really have much development and that bums me. I would have liked for him to possibly be a romance option if only because it would have meant he would have gotten a boost to his character in general. He feels almost like a plot device than a person.
                          CyanBlueFarmer and Relenanator like this.
                        • Reddestiny921

                          Reddestiny921 Pangalactic Porcupine

                          Coming from someone who loves drama in her own stories or gameplay with room for headcannons, not to mention one who wants to marry Kent and even Demetrius I think it would be interesting, I mean if you married either of them you would have two step-children three of which would be your age. While cheating has no excuse in the real world for various stories in fiction it's just another plot device, just like someone enjoying being scared by slasher fics or some of the disturbing things in crime shows doesn't mean they condone it in real life. I still think it was something that involved a little too much drink and that Caroline was just a friend things got out of control when he was supposed to be comforting her, perhaps Pierre even questions that Abby is his kid because for all we know he could have a low count, obviously the baby gravy to keep if family friendly, maybe things failed one too many times and that was the only way Caroline would get a baby. Even though she was unsure about settling she doesn't complain like Jodi does, granted she gives Abby a hard time it still feels more like she loves her family than her friend does she means well and now accepts her life. With a secret that she'll take to her grave.

                          Not to mention as jealous as his ex may be she has stayed silent and hasn't harmed anyone, though maybe she cursed Abby and that's why she craves stones and doesn't know what to do with some foods that are...well actually edible to everyone. I don't know depends on how you look at it, I do like Ras and would marry him too if he was an option no matter his kid I mean I understand some having a hang up being so much younger than him and with a possible chance of a stepkid that is closer to age than he is and that's fine but again I'm all for a lot of different bits of drama so it would be interesting all the same.
                          • Stardew Poptarts

                            Stardew Poptarts Tentacle Wrangler

                            It certainly might be. It'd be an awkward moment to encounter irl. But it could be written in so many ways. No reason a player couldn't be more of a friend than an actual parent if they've created themselves at near the same age as Abigail. ( I have seen some people create older characters with grey hair so I don't know what the 'farmer's ' age is. ) The player could still be supportive of her as the person she wants to be. Although, it honestly doesn't have to be explored at all. Maybe that's a rift between the farmer and the wizard. What if he simply refuses to say who his child is, or doesn't want to reveal it for fear of what his ex-wife might do to them if it were common knowledge?

                            Or if the wizard's child is revealed, maybe there's an event where the witch abducts them and we have to quest to rescue them instead of attempting to deal with the drama between the farmer and Abigail generated? It honestly wouldn't matter who it was if they were in danger. ( It might very well be Jas, I don't know. )

                            I understand it might not be the kind of drama you prefer in the game with some of the scandals, which there are a few. But it could be less of a scandal and more of an adventure.

                            What if the witch abducts the wizard's child and sends him a message saying she intends to hurt him by taking this child to a dangerous island of monsters. The farmer has to collect enough wood and other materials to help craft a ship with Willy possibly Robin's aide. With the ship constructed, it sails to an island with or without a dungeon.

                            If it's an area that's opened after the event is over, maybe it has a dungeon similar to the mines with an elevator that unlocks every 5 levels. If not, just an island inhabited with monsters, maybe a few forgeables and ores. At the end of the journey, the farmer can free the abducted person and reunite them with the wizard and their family waiting on the ship with the simple apology from them all stating they should have told them the truth.
                            • La Chair

                              La Chair Big Damn Hero

                              You must be either very young, very naive or both. Cheating on ones spouse is practically an Olympic Sport in some societies.

                              When the Economy tanked in the housing bubble, the Italians and the French were complaining that they could no longer afford to take separate vacations with their mistresses and send the family somewhere else. Good grief! We had a President of the United States where both he and The First Lady kept their mistresses with them at all times.

                              One of few advantages of being a Historian is reading diary's. You think the Victorian English were all prim and proper? Guess again. They were a randy bunch that should have had revolving doors on their bedrooms.

                              Fidelity to ones spouse is a personal decision. IRL I was married for just under 25 years to the same person till I lost her to cancer. We were faithful to each other to the end. I had the attitude that "I had one women in my life to screw it up, what the hell would I want a second for?" Also, were were both older when we were married. She was divorced and I was a Bartender as an undergraduate and in grad school. We knew what we wanted and were pretty much set in our ways. It worked very well.

                              Back to Stardew Valley, It's a small agrarian village. I little bit of hanky-panky is only to be expected.

                              Take Mayor "Fastbuck" Lewis. He's a randy old guy. We know he is nailing Marnie. He is also overly fond of Robin (Not that she cares, she is happy with Demo.) I find it more than a coincidence that he and Evelyn manage to slip away to the CC for afternoons alone. (I would hate to put a black light on the couches in there.) I don't think Jodi is in the picture but for other reasons. As for he and Pam, well... I'll leave it to your imagination. Caroline is another issue.

                              Vincent's Paternity is also highly questionable. I think Kent is totally aware of this as one of his laments to the Player is "Have you met my son? You probably know him better than I do." Notice the case is singular. Even when Kent comes, home Vincent still wonders when his "Dad" is coming home. Thus it is likely Jodi was a lonely soldiers wife and had an indiscretion that the result was Vincent. I think she has been wracked by guilt since then, hence the spoiling of the children, the devotion to house work and the devotion to the Church of Yoba.

                              I omit the Lewis-Pierre-Caroline triangle for now, it is not germane to this discussion.

                              So this leaves us with the question of Mr. Wizard's daughter and Vincent's Dad. Abigail seems to be the popular choice but I don't think this is the case. Granted she is a bit odd about the edges and has an affinity for the color purple but that's where the similarity ends. We see from her cut scenes that she secretly wants to be a warrior. Also in an Emily cut scene Abigail is in full plate armor. No, we need to look elsewhere.

                              This leads us to Emily. She is a strange bird, strange enough to be the daughter of Mr. Wizard. And by default this leads us to the two people that are conspicuously absent. Emily and Haley's parents. Briefly, I think the Mrs. had a fling with Mr. Wizard and the Mr. had a fling with his NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR, thus Vincent. This indicates that there is marital discord, thus the trip abroad to try to patch the marriage up, and get the hell out of Dodge till Kent has settled down.

                              It's a simple theory, every thing fits but it is just a theory. I have to hand it to CA that he gave us just enough information to speculate but not enough to confirm. Well done.
                                seth0et0holth likes this.
                              • nash579

                                nash579 Astral Cartographer

                                Iam pretty sure abigail talks about not dying her hair for years or not aware when she did it the last time or something along those lines. Changing her hair at will is a skill
                                the wizard could be proud of. Besides there are so many indices for Abigail and basically none for everyone else. I really like the theory that caroline is the witch ^^
                                • Stardew Poptarts

                                  Stardew Poptarts Tentacle Wrangler

                                  I honestly love that the mystery child could be any girl in town. You bring up a good point about Emily. It's entirely possible that she could also be the wizard's daughter considering one of the heart events brings the farmer into a dream. That's certainly mystical, if not magical.

                                  The hints towards the possibility of Abigail also include her communing with spirits, much as the wizard himself likes to commune with the other realm. ( And Caroline's secret walks to the wizard tower when she first arrived to the town. ) It could also be Jas as the only information that we're given is that her parents are dead which leaves us nowhere to go for information aside from what her aunt and Shane know.

                                  I think my draw toward having some parental connection to one of the older children ( Jas' age and up ) might actually be linked to the farmer's lack of a family life at home. If the farmer has children, they don't age above toddlers and have the equivalent dialogue options of petting your cat or dog as they run about the house.
                                  • Ghostly Fox

                                    Ghostly Fox Heliosphere

                                    To be frank, we have no idea how old Rasmodius is beyond being at least in the generation prior to the Farmer's. For all we know he could be a few hundred years old and have had more than one child in the Valley during the time he's lived there, and him have never suspected.

                                    That said, I do want to be a bit more serious and note there seems to be a bit of confusion from some people on the differences between fidelity to one's spouse, cheating, open relationships and messy legal situations due to some cultures making one spouse essentially furniture of the other. There is genuinely no excuse for cheating- a large potion of a population practicing adultery doesn't make it inherently right, it just means that portion of the population is being immoral by knowingly taking an action that harms another individual, one they are supposed to take particular to NOT hurt. An open relationship, where the person that takes up with a third party with their original partners permission isn't inherently immoral.

                                    Saying that cheating is okay because it was inherent in a culture is really not taking into account a lot of the nuances of those cultures, and is also completely irrelevant in terms of Stardew Valley since, as far as the setting indicates, Pelican Town is largeky based off the culture of a rural town of the modern day. Since it's using modern day culture, cheating should probably be viewed with modern day morals in mind, and modern day moral make it pretty apparent that cheating is wrong, and that the adulterer is responsible for their actions. (And, cheating on someone because their depressed is kind of just a crap thing to do, and using it as 'justification' for an affair would make it exponentially more craptastic.)

                                    And just because I haven't seen it said- an affair doesn't require sex, and there is such a thing as an "emotional" affair that means the adulterer uses the affair (or even a unknowing person) in order to get the emotional fulfillment they feel is lacking from the relationship.
                                      Relenanator likes this.
                                    • Relenanator

                                      Relenanator Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                                      I'm a little surprised this thread is still alive after my last post.

                                      I really like this idea you have going! You know, I think I remember you mentioning an idea like this on another thread a while back and think I liked it then too. :)

                                      Yeah, I'm hoping the Abigail angle is a red haring too, not only because of everything I've mention already but also because now that everyone suspects it, it wouldn't be as fun if it were simply confirmed.

                                      Oh, I'm all for drama and watching characters triumph in the face of emotional devastation but it has to be within the right setting and narrative for me to enjoy it (and not manufactured between a bunch of stupid people like in Reality TV shows). Like I said before, It's just that Stardew doesn't feel like the right kind of place for that level of deception or deep character catharsis to be going on, plus, you're supposed to like the all villagers and someone being a cheater would certainly turn a lot of people off.

                                      This would be a bit too much drama for me to handle in a game like Stardew Valley. :(

                                      First of all, I commend you for even understanding that line I wrote. I don't even remember what time it was when I wrote it, just that it had been dark for a long time. Anyway, shifting the focus around drastically might be a possible way for people to accept Abigail as a technical step daughter but I still wounder how CA would handle Abigail's feelings on the mater: finding out about you and her biological father are dating or like eachother. Also, this narrative of your's seems to rely on too many what if's for it to work, no offence. :confused:


                                      This seems like a lot of reading into things that aren't there from my perspective.

                                      Kent isn't stupid, he knows the only son the farmer would be interested in "meting" is the one who's the same age.

                                      Lot of characters have out of place dialog. I don't see the big revel here.

                                      Or she could have been praying to Yoba to keep her husband safe in a war they seem to be loosing. Acoms razor.

                                      Lots of people seem to think Emily is a decent possibility for the Wizards daughter. While I would personally love to see this happen, and it would make sense why Emily and Hailey are nothing alike, that doesn't mean there was any cheating involved with their parents. It could simply be that Emily's mom is really the Witch and that she gave up little Emily to a normal family in Pelican town, who later had a daughter of their own named Hailey.

                                      Also, for everyone, can we all please not talk about cheating in context of reality and just contain it to the game characters and fiction. It's making this thread ugly and awkward to post on.
                                        Last edited: Dec 12, 2016
                                      • Ambaaargh

                                        Ambaaargh Hard-To-Destroy Reptile

                                        *boots down door*

                                        Alrighty! So after an eon of playing through a new save cause I wanted to see all the cut-scenes Shane/Emily had via progression, it means I'm back on my old pre-1.1 save and therefore rolling in dat end-game content. So I'm prolly gonna be talking about some spoiler stuff because I did finally get through the wizard's quest for his inkwell. SO MUCH SPOILER STUFF.

                                        Thoughts about the Wizard
                                        So, while it did nuke one of my concepts of Caroline being the witch unless I pull some mad flips...I did find a few things with the wizard's dialogue interesting. At one point he explains he had a wife and then he did something that caused her to go into a rage and turn green with envy. But what gets me is he particularly uses the word envy instead of jealousy. Jealousy is where someone becomes upset and threatened over the idea of something they have being taken away...its them desiring to keep something. Where as envy is where someone desires something they do not actually possess themselves. So whatever the wizard did, he did something that made his ex-wife envious and not jealous. (Admittedly I also realize I may be reading more in that and CA just used that phrase because he thought the idea of someone turning literally green with envy sounded better than someone turning green with jealousy)

                                        Cause one of the things I noticed about the wizard end-game quest was when you are giving him his ink...he initially goes into a line asking if your farmer met her or if she had moved on and found anyone. It sounded like he obviously still has a torch burning for his ex-wife to some regard. And quite frankly, if he put up wards to protect the valley from his ex-wife...it strikes me as either she would have to not know who the wizard had an affair with or it wasn't an affair at all because I'm pretty certain in any other case it would be PRETTY DARN OBVIOUS who that witch would be gunning for versus just randomly tooting across the countryside making void chickens and slimes.

                                        But it also means that if it was an affair, that the wizard was likely the one to be like "woah wait. This is a mistake and dun goofed" and shut down the whole thing. Not only because of a magic-powered ex now buggering mad at him and running amuk the countryside cause of it...but also because yeah...his dialogue does sound a lot like there would have been a desire to mend thing but that is apparently a no-go.

                                        Which leads me into Caroline/Pierre and one of the reasons I am not the most comfortable with the cheating angle.

                                        Thoughts about Pierre/Caroline
                                        Now, while I plan to talk on Caroline a bit in my next part, I do need to bring her in for Pierre's bit. Cause to me the thing is most folks seem to think Caroline would go into an affair because Pierre is somehow this awful husband. But...I honestly don't see it other than the fact Pierre works a lot and the majority of dialogue with Pierre is "I am the shopkeeper and I talk about money and business. Business business numbers numbers." so he gives off a used car salesman vibe. Granted everyone sees everyone a little different, but honestly I got the vibe that for a few folks its "well -I- dont really like Pierre so he must be an awful person."

                                        However...all in all from what I've seen...
                                        A: Despite working at his shop consistently day in and day out...Pierre has shown he cooks dinner for his family a couple nights a week. Barring that, they also sometimes just order food from Gus. Which means despite supposedly having this "old fashioned traditional" family and being one of the few families that has access to good quality food...Caroline isn't expected to make dinner every night. (where as from what I can tell Jodi is in WIFE MODE 24/7 even when Trent returns)
                                        B: Pierre isn't exactly 100% thrilled about being in the shop everyday. He mentions often about how he would like to crunch through some leaves or throw a snowball but feels obligated to work the shop. To the point I don't think he even has a day in the year where he gets a checkup from Harvey.
                                        C: Inversely, Caroline has shown to have a lot of spare time. She hosts Tuesday aerobics, she goes out and relaxes in the park, she goes on walks, she reads in the library. Despite the fact Pierre has indicated he's not the most super giddy about working the shop all day err day, at no point does it seem like he's tried to wrangle Caroline or Abigail into working there to ease off his own workload...instead letting them do their own things.
                                        D; Even though not religious, the house they bought had a shrine of Yoba that they let folks come in and make use of. Compared to JojaCorp who wants to turn the CC into a warehouse...Pierre could have easily moved in all "huh. Well its my house...and I could really use a billiard room..." but instead kept it cause of the town's sentimental value and he and Caroline likely maintain that shrine themselves out of their own pockets.

                                        To me, Pierre is a financially driven individual...but based on all the things...I find its a drive that is fueled by a desire to provide/support his family. There are a lot of people who express their affection by providing or gifts versus romantic gestures. And its possible(though just speculation) that a lot of Pierre's moneydrive is from the fact Joja is literally breathing down his financial neck by threatening to undercut his entire family's livelyhood. Abigail is 20 something...so if there was an affair it would have happened 20 years ago and honestly while I could make a joke about one could prolly play in-game for 20 years and no one changes that entire time...normally it would be easy to assume that the Pierre of right now in-game may not be the same guy from 20 years ago. So perhaps in his past he was terrible...but nothing in Caroline/Pierre/Abigail's dialogue really indicates he was this tyrant. Abigail most complains about both her parents. From what I remember of his dialogues, he used to be a boxer. Which has led me to think that perhaps Pierre used his earnings from that to well...do exactly what our farmer did and settle down in a small countryside away from the city corporate machine. I like to imagine in my sillier moments that somewhere in an alternate universe we are actually playing SDV where instead of a farm your character ended up inheriting a tiny general store and its up to you to supply your town and buy/sell goods. Cause really, in a forum filled with guides and charts about how to maximize our money-making farming potential...are we all not a Pierre in our own right? :p

                                        So to me...if this is a case of cheating...then I really feel bad for Pierre because to me it would feel like a case of bored housewife looking for excitement when really the only real strike against Pierre IMO is he chose to show he loved Caroline via trying to provide for her needs fiscally versus being more amorous. Considering SDV's dad/husband track record is "deadbeat who abandoned their family", "deadbeat who beat their kids and abandoned their family", "straight up dead(sorry Sebastion)", , "Was away at war and is now pretty PTSDing"...Pierre is prolly one of the few examples of a dude in SDV who isn't a literal trashfire in regards to being a husband/parent. I think the only other character is Demetrius who seems to be an alright but quirky husband but has some issues with his stepson. Granted one could speculate his secret stash is porn. (One could speculate its weed. One could speculate its Joja SugarPuffi-os. Like many things its pretty vague), and there are certainly points where he's a little overbearing with Abigail. But he's not a solo figure on that, as Caroline is just as active if not moreso in harping on Abigail about her hair or respecting rules of the house.

                                        Which honestly I always feel is more just the case of Abigail is stuck in that problem a lot of young twenty-somethings who stay with their parents get...where they are like "dude I'm an adult and my own person now" but in many ways are still acting like they did when they were 16 and fully dependant on their parents. Which is the double-edged sword...if you want to be considered an individual, staying at your folks home while they pay for college and you not having any job kind of makes it more likely they are going to not shake the feeling you are still their teenager. Heck, even Sam has a part time job.

                                        BUT TO GET TO THE POINT. If Caroline did cheat on Pierre with the wizard...it feels so lackluster and more akin to a thing of a bored housewife looking for excitement because her hubby gives her all this unsupervised free-time due to working all the time. Where as Pierre has been diligently working all day err day to put all his resources and support into his family. And quite frankly...IMO...I'm not the biggest fan of infidelity, but for the motivation to be "lol I was bored and he didn't scratch my itch" is prolly one of the most shallow...and also one of the most easy to fix. But for the most part Caroline's "oh I wish Pierre would spend more time with his family" feels like the sort of thing a suburbanite mom says when its like 'oh shucks the guy who installed my new dishwasher accidently didn't hook up the sink proper so he's coming out tomorrow to fix it. But I have to spend the evening not able to use the sink. Man what a day!"

                                        Cause it would also mean that not only did she cheat on Pierre, it was an affair that caused the wizard to cheat on HIS wife. And unlike the theories of Pierre being a meh husband, from what it sounds like the witch was A-OK until something caused her to lose her gourd and go green and become an evil creature hexxing the countryside.

                                        SO. What does this mean for my theories?
                                        I will prolly still go with a crew of my older ones...but for now I'm gonna settle on this one cause I like it.

                                        I like the idea that Caroline wanted a kid. But perhaps Pierre's little soldiers were firing blanks...who knows. But no kids. So she goes to the wizard cause tales of magic and stuff. She is all "I wanna kid." So he's like "I can help" and does some sort of magical whatcha-thingie that would give her a kid. Course Pierre's firing blank so its like a sub in for the genetics. So he's like "shabiggity bang, magical hoodinany" cause he's a wizard and he don't gotta do anything. Cue the witch, his wife...who had been wanting a kid FOR YEARS. And she's all "wait what. What? I wanted kids. But you never let us have kids because 'bla bla magical responsibility and it would distract you from your job' but ONE CHICK shows up on your doorstep all wanting a kid and you just HAND THEM BABIES THE FREAK OUT? It. Is. ON. *green-mode*" Which is also why she has the statue in her house that turns children into birds. Because she mad and if she can't have kids she'll be more than happy to get rid of other folks kids.

                                        Meanwhile Caroline is all "yay I have a kid. I can just tell Pierre it was a miracle and we finally have a kid. ;u;" but the magic involved is why Abigail is starting to get the hair and love of them minerals. After all, she was made with magic, it makes sense it would draw her in.

                                        I go on this one mainly because for all the 10 heart BFF I have with Caroline or the wizard, there has never been really any indication of stray affection on either of their parts. Or single comment that indicates a wistfulness for another individual.(save for the wizard commenting about his ex) Which leads me to thinking it was more like a fairy tale business arrangement without any romance.

                                        Anyways, that's my random rambles of TEN MILLION WORDS. A lot of it is my own personal interpretations. But eh, its fun.
                                          Last edited: Dec 12, 2016
                                        • Relenanator

                                          Relenanator Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                                          Wait really? That conflicts with his other dialog where he talks about breaking up with her and her being immature for cursing the countryside. That's really weird.

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