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Feedback Hylotl Helmets...

Discussion in 'Starbound Discussion' started by BloodyMonarch, Jul 14, 2016.

  1. BloodyMonarch

    BloodyMonarch Astral Cartographer

    There's also this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monocular_deprivation

    "They found that ocular dominance columns (the orderly clustering of V1 neurons representing visual input from one or both eyes) were dramatically disrupted when one eye was sewn shut for 2 months. In the normal feline, about 85% of cells are responsive to input to both eyes; in the monocularly-deprived animals, no cells receive input from both eyes. This physiological change was paralleled by dramatic anatomical changes. The layers representing the deprived eye in the lateral geniculate nucleus of the thalamus are atrophied."

    So covering one of your eyes for long periods of time will weaken it. Something tells me the Hylotl would be SUPER against the weakening of their third eye.

    At the end of the day, when you're making racial armor you should put yourself in their position. Try and imagine what it would be like to have fins and three eyes and prefer to be near or in water.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
    Crossfang and Another Kevin like this.
  2. Crossfang

    Crossfang Oxygen Tank

    I agree with @BloodyMonarch with almost all of his statements.
    But like @lazarus78 said... the devs may not change all of them.
     
  3. lazarus78

    lazarus78 The Waste of Time

    That 3rd eye is well above the top of the head. Just saying.

    Never said 3 eyes wouldn't be better, but it is understandable why someone would opt to protect one when in combat when 2 is perfectly viable.

    Also looking at animels here on earth, most only have 2 eyes. Fish, birds, lizards, snakes, etc. I can really only think of spiders that have more than 2 eyes, though I'm sure there are more, but the vast majority only have 2.

    And yeah you could argue "we aren't talking about earth or real life creatures here", but my point is, yeah 3 eyes may be advantageous, but earth is proof that 2 eyes are plenty.

    Sacrificing vision for protection is the more optimal method, unless you have a better way to protect that 3rd eye, as seen by modern combat gear even for humans, where they can increase visibility thanks to improved technological devices like goggles. If you dcan't put something in front of your eyes and still have vision, it is better to limit vision for the sake of protection.

    Also look at tanks. Hardly any vision, and tons of protection. Can't have both.
     
  4. Lazer

    Lazer Existential Complex

    3 eyed helmets would look cool. I don't think it's necessary to prove that it would be practical/impractical to have the top eye covered/not covered. It would look cool, and reinforce the uniqueness of hylotl as an alien lifeform. That's the reason it would be better.

    Whether that's enough of a reason to redo a handful of art assets is debatable I guess.
     
  5. Crossfang

    Crossfang Oxygen Tank

    it will be cool indeed.
     
    BloodyMonarch likes this.
  6. Another Kevin

    Another Kevin Phantasmal Quasar

    Have you ever seen a spider that covered all but two of her eyes? Nah? That's because spiders are smart enough to not handicap themselves.
     
    Crossfang likes this.
  7. lazarus78

    lazarus78 The Waste of Time

    Spiders don't wear armor.

    And by your logic, humans must be stupid for handicapping themselves for the sake of protection.
     
  8. Crossfang

    Crossfang Oxygen Tank

    I'm pretty sure that's not what he's trying to say mate.
     
  9. lazarus78

    lazarus78 The Waste of Time

    I know. I said by his logic, as in, I used his own logic as a counter argument. Spiders don't cover up their extra eyes because its more advantagious to have them all uncovered. So humans must be stupid for limiting their vision on purpose for the sake of protection.
     
  10. Crossfang

    Crossfang Oxygen Tank

    so what's your verdict about the topic? it's better to end it clearly before this arguments will grow and eventually... go back in circles..
     
  11. Another Kevin

    Another Kevin Phantasmal Quasar

    They don't usually cover their eyes entirely at least.
    --- Post updated ---
    So to clear the question whether it is smart to cover the third eye, we have to ask ourselves:

    If spiders had the possibility to, would they cover some of their eyes purely for protection?
     
  12. lazarus78

    lazarus78 The Waste of Time

    They don't need to. They are predators. They are the ones doing the hunting. And iven if you say "See, spiders don't do it or don't need to, so why should the hylotl", allow me to remind you that the vast majority of creatures on earth only have 2 eyes.

    Reduced vision is the same concept as covering an eye, regardless of how many you have. Humans have to weigh the options of less vision vs more protection because yes, reducing vision does have plenty of downsides, but do the benefits outweigh those downsides? Yes, greatly.


    More eyes is better, yes, no question there. But when you technologically don't have anything that can protect your eyes, making it harder to hit your eyes is preferable, and they Hylotl having 3 means you can cover one up and still function just fine while maintaining a good eye if something unfortunate happened to your other eyes. As later armors show, they do show the third eye but they are all protected unlike the early armors.
     
  13. Another Kevin

    Another Kevin Phantasmal Quasar

    So you first say : Spiders are predators so they don't have to worry about protection, then you argument about technology and say : Bla bla you need the technology to be able to protect it AND be able to use it.

    But.... Samurais had that. The Hylotl low-tech tiers cover the eye entirely, even though samurais and even medieval knights had visors, so why can't there be a visor for the third eye, a slit that makes it semi-usable?

    The concept of a visor was known, and a visor is the better alternative if you compare it to the concept of entirely covering it.

    The River Helm already uses the slit concept, some samurai even masked their faces to scare off demons, that means that they had the knwoledge to provide masks that do not entirely leave you blind. With this knwoledge, the hylotl could have easily made their primitive armor three-eye friendly.
     
    BloodyMonarch and Crossfang like this.
  14. Squeegeeie

    Squeegeeie Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    Isn't it the first three armors? The rest allow the third eye visible. I wouldn't consider the puddle hat as covering the eye either. From the point of view of the player looking at the screen, the hat covers the eye, but with that style of hat, the third eye can see out from under it. The pond helmet does cover the eye, and I see this as a protection concern.

    I don't buy the comparison for the human comparison of not covering any eyes, because there were man made helmets did significantly compromise peripheral vision. If you weren't looking directly at something, you couldn't see it. Hylotl have a third eye. As far as parallaxing vision requires, only two are necessary. Man never had extra eyes to consider in armour design. The hylotl may have found covering one to be an acceptable compromise between protecting as much of one's self and losing as little capability as possible. The eye hasn't become useless to that hylotl, because the helmet can still be removed. I doubt the hylotl wore helmets every moment for months straight. I think there is also a big difference between wearing something over your eye and sewing it shut.

    Later armor is able to provide sufficient protection without covering the eye.
     
  15. lazarus78

    lazarus78 The Waste of Time

    2 eyes are still always exposed until the invention of a clear material used as a visor. The helmets always had at least some hole to the eye. As shown, you only need 2 eyes to be functional with proper depth perception, their third eye could simply not have been necessary for most functions, and thus in terms of armor, they opted to protect it, till their later more advanced armors which offered proper protection of all the eyes, so covering one was no longer needed.

    All historical helmets that offered meaningful protection always came with a downside of reducing vision. Modern helmets don't have that problem because we can cover our eyes AND get protection at the same time. The hylotl armors actually fit into this quite well.
     
    Crossfang likes this.
  16. Another Kevin

    Another Kevin Phantasmal Quasar

    If you had the option to expose two eyes and cover one OR expose two and cover one just a bit ( with a visor or slit or whatever) , you'd still go for 2 1/2 eyes.
     
    BloodyMonarch likes this.
  17. Crossfang

    Crossfang Oxygen Tank

    I see you point now. And it does makes sense if you put it that way.

    what he meant is as your armor tier progresses, the more protection you gain while making your vision better by the use of technological advancement in suits. Also we need to take note. the hylotl that we're gonna play isn't just a common villager or the like.
     
  18. lazarus78

    lazarus78 The Waste of Time

    Me personally would opt for fully covering one. Extra eye means I can still see if something happens, and having it covered doesn't put me at any real disadvantage.

    I mean even with 2 eyes, partially cover up one, I find it more jarring than completely covering it.

    You are I believe the first person I've seen admit a change in opinion after a sizable argument/debate.
     
  19. Lazer

    Lazer Existential Complex

    I decided to fool around with the helmets.

    [​IMG]

    A, B, C, and I: required very little change at all.
    E: barely changed, and I'm not convinced it benefited from it.
    F and G: required no change, so no change was made.
    D, H, and J: required no change, but I was having fun.
     
    Another Kevin and BloodyMonarch like this.
  20. BloodyMonarch

    BloodyMonarch Astral Cartographer

    See? How long did it take you to do that? A few hours?

    Please make this available for the 1.0 version of the game. You'll have a guaranteed user right here. Thanks for showing it can be done.
     

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