How ''magic'' would fit

Discussion in 'Mechanics' started by DevilForce, Jun 15, 2012.


Is this a good idea?

  1. Yes! i like it!

  2. No, i dont like it.

  3. I dont care.

  1. SchuldKruz

    SchuldKruz Big Damn Hero

    You all have fallen under my curse. For taking the curse of the rainbow unto yourself, you have accepted the eternal pact of damnation or some other stuff... Anyways , I believe that Magic can also be in the form of divination. Maybe a tech tree between two opposing forces in the universe which uses the star as its main subject or medium...

    Astrology (Mysticism)
    The Divine art of star reading


    Astronomy (Science)
    The Philosophical art of star deciphering
  2. Salrith

    Salrith Subatomic Cosmonaut

    Hmm, that's a nice idea, too! But what you do with Astronomy? Really, we plug in co-ordinates and zoom away to whatever star is there... Although, perhaps with Astronomy, you could work out -what's- on a world before you visit it. As in.. Work out the percentage of mineral <x>, mineral <y>, what type of gravity is there... Hmmm.
  3. SchuldKruz

    SchuldKruz Big Damn Hero

    Let me explain, Astronomy and Astrology are like 2 tech trees showing 2 different approach to the universe with different perspectives.

    Astrology represents the mystical and supernatural side of the world by the guidance of the stars through constant Meditation and Spiritual Exercise. It shows that the universe is guided by either Divine Intervention or Prophecy.

    Astronomy, however, represents the logical and philosophical approach to the world by the knowledge from the stars through constant study,observation,experimentation and conclusions. It shows that the universe is guided by the Laws and Theories.
  4. Salrith

    Salrith Subatomic Cosmonaut

    Nono, Sal'rith understands -what- they are -- the point was examining what game mechanics they could contribute.
    *Has a minor in Astronomy at university, definitely understands what it is; mother used to be an astrologist* (Yes, odd family combination perhaps)

    What they are doesn't define how they affect the game... So thoughts were along the lines of, 'What would Astronomy and Astrology do, gamewise?'
    Astronomy could help with remote classification of worlds. Although, this might detract from exploration...
  5. SchuldKruz

    SchuldKruz Big Damn Hero

    Astrology contributes to the natural and spiritual affinity enabling the user to have, let's say, Heightened senses,increased resistance to natural calamities, star guidance which acts as a minor night vision enabling one to use his/her "Light of the Mind" to show the way and more hocus pocus thing-a-ma-bobs. You also have the ability to revive dormant Artifacts and relics.

    Astronomy Helps improve your techie knowledge on mechanical and your . You can reverse engineer and decipher Ancient relics and artifacts and scale them up to a more comprehend able level and use them as weapons of mass destruction.

    The Only difference is that the talents and traits in Astrology is easier to get but the effects are much weaker than the ones in Astronomy. While the other one can produce doomsday weapons but needs the time to research it and perfect it.
  6. Salrith

    Salrith Subatomic Cosmonaut

    Ooh, the devs seemed reluctant to include reverse engineering in any scale other than 'This speeds up your research'. Sal'rith think that even if they change that, true-to-life reverse engineering won't be a real possibility... However! They could be requirements for REALLY advanced stuff. Perhaps no one can build a lightsabre-style weapon until they have found an ancient artifact that used fine-tuned plasma containment fields and then 'reverse engineered' it.
    That might solve any potential problem, while staying true to your thoughts?
  7. Dwagon

    Dwagon Hard-To-Destroy Reptile

    Shadowrun, Mass Effect, Warhammer, Star Wars.
    All of these have some sort of magic or magic-like surrogate within their lore, and it fits just fine. It can be done.
    Nothing I've seen so far in Starbound suggests a form of "magic" it cannot be worked into the setting.
  8. Roger Wilco

    Roger Wilco Master Chief

    Dont forget FF and, SC2 (psionics) and Phantasy Star online which did it really well with high tech Staves and Wands.
    Besides, looking at the screenshots you see an amazing diversity of environment and buildings, you arnt stuck with just high tech slums, you can still make tree forts and tribal villages. Maybe i want a mystical looking house, but im going to be using high tech armor and weapons to match it? Phooey!
  9. Dragrath

    Dragrath Phantasmal Quasar

    The closest I could see to the "magic would be a device to manipulate E&M field lines and even that is pushing it. I have no problem with magic but it really doesn't fit in w/ the game however biotic enhancements such as claw morphs, wings, breathing fire or acid... etc, or guns that shoot laser beams, electrical channeling guns... liquid nitrogen dispensing weapons... all of these can fill your void...

    If the appearances bother you do to the existence of special effects in the real world perhaps there could be a virtual skin device to make it all look like magic?

    also astrology is a pitiful pseudo science which has no basis in reality I mean they don't even have the correct constellations in the zodiac. Even comparing it to astronomy is an insult to those that embrace the scientific method and rational skepticism.
  10. Salrith

    Salrith Subatomic Cosmonaut

    Sal'rith not consider it an insult at all. Indeed, having contrasting modes of thinking can be extremely conductive to rational, sound thinking -- knowing what it is that is 'not' science is often helpful when questioning if something has been done right. More than that, it is extremely disrespectful to one of the precursors to modern astronomy -- astrology has very old roots of its own, and certainly helped spur astronomy on in its development.
    Sal'rith believe it was Aristotle who thought that eyes 'shot beams' out from them, and it was the reflections of those beams which let people see. Might have been a different philosopher, though. It was wrong, but was a step along the path to more sophisticated science.

    Ask Sal'rith, and there is no insult in comparing astronomy to astrology.

    Anyway, 'psionics' and other such sci-fi magic would work just fine, personally.
  11. Dzelda

    Dzelda Parsec Taste Tester

    Astrology doesnt work because the constellations have changed over the milennia, as astronomists will tell you, Earths axis wobbles, even the north star has changed over the years. Vega used to be the North Star once! However, telling us Astrology is a psuedo science does not mean that it is a useless science. Study of any field helps one understand others. And who knows? Parts of astrology can actually be proven to be useful, just as when alchemists went to make gold from lead and instead ended up inventing chemistry and several important chemicals that are commonplace today (bleach being one of them I do believe)

    But more to the point. Whether magic or science, they are in fact one and the same in my opinion. Ive said it earlier, but when civilizations die out and their technology becomes lost, it may be considered magical when it is rediscovered and said devices can do things like move mountains of rocks. Just as peasants of centures ago would call for the lynch mob if say, you brought a bulldozer to their village. Magic is merely the things that people do not understand working, and science is the understanding of the things that work.
  12. ChaoticGamer

    ChaoticGamer Master Astronaut

    :fusrodah: HOLD IT! Don't you know what dangerous law in magic or spells for which it came? Example, "Slayer" the anime which I am scared that would happen in my world or home planet. What is possi- *Boom* oh great now I have to fix my town again, thx guys, I hope this- *Ka-Boom* oh they are teaming up with psychopathic bombers that are arm nukes. Thx for having my favorite world got screwed and cover in wasted of negative mana and nukes. I wonder what would be the worst spot could be...OH wait we got healing magic and rewind spell fix our building (small go back in time so its this symbol here | << | as I am trying spell it right and only work on objects and restored fallen buildings so who ever want PVP would perfectly would love that magic).
  13. Dragrath

    Dragrath Phantasmal Quasar

    Don't get me wrong I love playing as a mage in fantasy games... My issue is with magic there is a neglecting of bounded limits that can't be passed magic can be used as an excuse to do the impossible which is hard to implement in a science fiction universe with out simply ruining the feel of the world.

    As for my argument against Psudoscience I hold as astrology yields no testable hypothesis only making vague "predictions designed such that any person can interpret them as being relevant to their life. " In the past Astrology did give one thing to the world which was an interest in the stars but as we have developed a sufficient level of knowledge to debunk the claims of these predictions. True they can not be disproved but this is only because they do not say enough to do so, not because they are correct. This is the definition of psudoscience.
    Bombzero likes this.
  14. Klengo

    Klengo Void-Bound Voyager

    I've always found it weird that sci-fi settings - even pulp ones like Starbound's - try too forcibly cram in magic elements. Be it through "contemporary" magicks or the oft used psychic approach. In the end most settings end up botching it. This is because in most settings, magic is unable to more than the "mundane" technology.

    In standard medieval fantasy, magic is used as a means to add flavour. To give otherwise dull worlds something more than just swords and peasants. It creates variety in the character's you play. Notice how in many RPGs the only thing different about many classes is their magic of choice? However, the most important aspect is that it's capable of doing the impossible, or makes something possible much, much easier to accomplish.
    Now, in sci-fi settings, most impossible things have already been achieved. Magic is rendered completely pointless as a viable plot element. Things that seem magic at first, are generally quickly revealed to be nothing more than advanced technology. The only things I would consider magic are things and instances that are impossible to predict, impossible to quantify, impossible to understand and most importantly, impossible to control. Because once any of those become possible, it's no longer magic, it's science.

    So, you may go about calling your fireball-shooting staff magic, but at the end of the day it's just a gun. A gun that happens to look like a stick.
    Bombzero and Dragrath like this.
  15. DevilForce

    DevilForce Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    Actually no, a fireball shooting staff can't be a gun because its a STAFF. Stuff that shoots doesn't always has to be a gun. Also, to figure it out how does the staff shoot fireballs would take literally millions of years to do.
    If you say that magic is undiscovered science then why can't Starbound use all the magic elements but call it science as if we already know how it works. Sorry if the last sentence made no sense :)
  16. ChaoticGamer

    ChaoticGamer Master Astronaut

    Now...discussion of magic being in the game is most difficult one ever. Sometime we have to have this thing of whatever object it pose to do and researching special magic will have lots people have head aches figure out how to research it correctly that it requires. To the part is most hardest part is where we are going make up the story how mana or magic come to galaxy or universe.

    Note: I am not against magic any forum. It is how the story goes in the giant sandbox.
  17. Roger Wilco

    Roger Wilco Master Chief

    I kind of like how magic can give the appearance of being unarmed, and almost all guns are going to do nothing more than shoot something out of a barrel, while magic could be pointed and simply cause things to happen. Not a lot of weapons/spells in Terraira were that different though, the starsword was unique in its attack, but the crystal storm or cursed flame, heck even the rainbow rod, could all be 'guns' in a sci fi (machine gun, plasma launcher, remote rocket) But what about a gun that you click on someone and lightning strikes them from above, or they simply catch on fire ? I'd be happy without magic if Gadgets could fulfill this role too, any medium would work for non-point and shoot methods.
  18. Exodus

    Exodus Space Kumquat

    The thing is, this is a sci-fi game, magic would be horribly out of place. Don't get me wrong, I love magic and fantasy and all that stuff, but I would prefer magic to stay away from this game. It would ruin the whole feel of space exploration and technology. Sure some weapons could be similar to magic, but the idea itself feels stupid. Simply put. Like a little gun that shoots controlled glowing bullets, thats just blatantly slapping a sci-fi label on something that should be magical. Idiotic idea if you ask me.
  19. ChaoticGamer

    ChaoticGamer Master Astronaut

    Not really....take DF, AQ, AQW, MQ, and WQ and they all fit well keeping themselves alive in such as magic. They have tons people loving it, they got part sciences and also fantasy story to keep between both of them alive.

    I understand magic will screw up this game, but...


    We human sometimes love dream a world full magic instead of these days of technologies, think about when we are little kids, we think we get magical weapons and so on stuff magic stuff. Just try use logic sciences + magic logic idea= hopefully this will not screw up the game.
    Exodus likes this.
  20. Silverduke1

    Silverduke1 Giant Laser Beams

    There is actually a genre that uses both technology and magic for itself it would be Science Fantasy

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