Dying Really Sucks... [Updated]

At the core of this and any game you have to remember its supposed to be fun. Maybe challenging, maybe relaxing and maybe even social, but ultimately fun. Dying and losing everything is not fun.
How many MMO have you played where you get to level 16, die for the first time and have to make a new char. None.. because its a ridiculous idea.
I am sure if you want a permadeath option (if the game doesnt have one) or even ways to make it harder, change the death penalties and all that, I am sure people will mod it. But the majority of players just want to go on and play to relax, explore the universe, dig in the ground, build a base and not have to lose pretty much everything because you were distracted by something in the real world and died.

 

Have always been against cloning (atleast for legit people) other than that, footgrunts and DISPOSABLE people are rightfully cloned. But people who are important to me, don't want to find out this is recycled copy #45...

 

I look at the cloning as... well the clones are basically just flesh type machines, your mind is the controlling force, when you die it is basically just your vehicle being destroyed, your mind zips back to the ship and downloads into a new body (vehicle)

 

Might actually agree with you on this one, cause after watching some documentaries, the hard part about cloning humans is cloning the brain, which is too complex.

 

My grippe with the cloning aspect in THIS game. Which honestly the only time I've had issue with it is. It totally destroys the survival aspect of it, which is an important aspect of this title. And, it really destroys the story. You escape your home world, barely, is the main focus right. But you can die and just become a clone, anyway. So you barely escaping is just useless now. Why not just die then. And start the story off as a clone. Then I won't have issue with being re cloned.

 

Simple solution:
Play on hardcore. That is what I am doing. Perma-death is my best friend.

 

You do realise you could just restart the game every time you die... no one is gonna force you to keep playing.
Maybe the cloning tech is on the ship you find and you don't have it on your world which is destroyed.

 

Oh that comment I made was for rhayn and frozen. For their discussion. I love permadeath.

 

I think you're being sarcastic. But, I wouldn't even have an issue doing that either. IF the universe the last time I played and died in, stayed the same even going into a new game. Meaning I could return to my other players legacy. Go to his old buildings, bases, cities. And maybe they've been overrun with mobs and I can retake them. And all his sweet tasty stockpiles. I'd just love it! Eeeeee! ...sorry for the schoolgirl squeal I couldn't help myself...

 

It depends on the situation, if everyone's going to die, going up against a big boss and yeah, you're all dead, but that will make sure that you're all still in a group, and not scattered throughout the starts, which might be a sucky thing to have happen in its own right.

My DnD group doesn't have revival or cloning mechanics. I've spent 8-12 hours trying bringing a character from level 1 to level 6 only to have all that destroyed because I failed a reflex save. To me that made the game more exciting, knowing that if you die, your chraracter is probably gone forever, but you still have to go and try to get through the dungeon. That conflict of desires is -- to me -- one thing that can make a game fun.

Also, I thought that permadeath was "If you die, the world gets deleted and you have to start from scratch" not "if you die, some plot stuff happens, you reroll and try to get your stuff back."

 

I wasnt actually being sarcastic. If theres no perma-death mode then when you die you need to restart if that is what you want. It just takes discipline. Also since the cloning tech is on the ship and you find the ship.... I am guessing that the cloning tech isnt available on the homeworld which negates the whole die on the homeworld and play as a clone.

 

Thus, the semi-permadeath.

I agree with your point of view on gaming.

 

I'm a lurker (typically don't post), but I think Cruellyricisti's idea is soild. I have no problem with perma-death as long as the game is fair about it. If the player can take precautions to avoid death or making recovery for death easier, then I feel as a gamer, I should be punished for making a mistake.

I don't mean just that I stink at the game because my reflexes are slow (there should be a separate difficulty option that you can adjust to the prefer difficulty level). I mean, for example, I land on a high level planet with no allies, no idea what I'm doing, and no business being there. In that case, I should be killed and it should be a challenge to get my stuff back. I have to decide if the risk of getting my stuff back is worth killing another character That's what makes games exciting. You need consequences or the joy of victory is hollow.

Side note -
I'm playing State of Decay right now (a zombie survival open world sandbox game) and the death system is very similar to the OP idea. If the character you're playing dies, that's it - he or she is dead. There are other characters you can switch to and they can go find any gear your dead character was carrying, but that's it. It feels like a real punishment without being mechanically a dead end. I like it even though it can be frustrating

 

I dont disagree and with DayZ one of the best things is the fear that comes from knowing some idiot could shoot you and steal your stuff. But I think the problem here is that most people wouldnt want that sort of realism from this type of game. Though if it was in as an option (super duper hard mode or whatever) so people could have permadeath or not, then I would be all for it.

 

I think that's a narrow definition of permadeath. I totally feel that a game like X-COM has permadeath even though the death of a single squad member doesn't end the game. It just kills that individual party member permanently and the rest of the team has to carry on.

 

Hmmm.... I guess I'm not seeing the issue. I really don't think Cruellyricisti's idea adds much in the way of difficulty. I mean, if you strip out all the fluff, it's the same mechanic as MineCraft. Is MineCraft too difficult? Especially if there's some additional feature that lets you clone/resurrect previous deceased characters.

 

It shouldn't be too difficult. More of an inconvenience.

 

No, it's not supposed to add difficulty, it's supposed to add a different gameplay style, with this mode, you'd have to play more defensively, plan out your moves ahead of time, and ensure that you have an escape route in case things go south. These are all experiences that I would never feel without this setting.

 

Er. So this is basically an intermediate difficulty level between hardcore and regular Starbound, with some plot sprinkled in?
I don't know. I mean, it's the same plot all the time, it sounds like it'd get old rather fast. Sure, either erect a monument or investigate the cause of death, and there would be different facilities, but the basic concept would be the same. Not to mention creating a new character every time would be time-consuming, unless you include some kind of template. But then you're back to cloning. And even if you ignore the plot and character creation, it's still the Minecraft modus operandi with some rusty equipment thrown in.

Overall, it's a tentative "maybe" if optional. Otherwise, no.

 

I understand your argument.

The plot tie in is just a small bit of fluff. This is more or less, a creative active difficulty setting. More dynamic than "pick a setting, play the game" approach. The little story line could be completely voided out. The main draw is that when you die, everything on your person is left lying there where you died. Instead of just a few coins being lost, and being sent back aboard your ship. Which "cloning" is just a clever way of concealing.

I don't have all the answers, but hopefully something new in the way of difficulty settings, could be drummed up for Starbound. Something dynamic, adapting, and plays into the story/lore of the game.

One thing I've seen around the forums, that the current system of cloning doesn't account for. Ship to ship battles. Which WILL be in the game eventually. What happens when you lose a battle and your ship is destroyed? You lose a few coins and get cloned back aboard your ship? It's been destroyed. That would cause a anomaly ripping a hole in the time space continuum... Jk.

Jokes aside, they really should make dying a part of the story. Instead of a pause in it that has to be covered up somehow. Something that somehow scales to the environment your in. Maybe get your ship's crew/medbay involved? Maybe, say, every time you die. You wake up in your base's/ship's medbay. With a "injured" debuff. You max health is decreased some, your speed, jump height, etc. All reduced until you recover your belongings. Or an amount of time passes.