(This is a repost of my reddit thread on the topic.) Mods are great, no question. Their infinite variety offer a vast life extension to any project, and they are great at rallying the community into a more creative participation than it would be possible otherwise. Mod Limitations: As great as mods may be, there are several major limitations to mod-based content: Multiplayer. Depending on the mod, all players in a multiplayer server may have to run the same one, making it harder to share a mod with friends, or even use a mod by yourself while on a multiplayer server (given the need to interact with players who do not have that mod). Finally, even a player who never installed the mod themselves might be impacted by the fact someone else on their server used it. Incompatibility. Mods may be technically incompatible with one another. The vanilla game is carefully tested to ensure no parts of it break other parts. With mods, the burden is left to the modders (who have no control over what other mods player install) and the players themselves. Furthermore, mods may be broken by later game updates, which can especially be a problem if the original modder is no longer active. Balance and Immersion (this often gets overlooked, but I think it's a vital point). Mods are not balanced by Chucklefish for mechanics, lore, and overall thematic "belongliness". Every time players install a mod, they take the risk that the mod will break game balance or immersion. For some mods, this is perfectly OK, since the mod is designed from the start to be of a different "flavor" (e.g. anything from SG1 mods to MLP mods, which cannot be part of the vanilla game for obvious reasons). But if a a player installs something like a "Mining Mech" mod, they can reasonably expect a mod that is properly balanced and thematically fit for the rest of the game - an expectation that, for a mod, may often fall short. Between all the "crazy mechanics" type mods, "cheat" type mods, "TV/Movie/Book adaptation" type mods, all of which cannot and should not be part of the vanilla, there are some mods which are, or have the potential to be, suitable enough as to look, feel, and behave similar to the vanilla game. Two well-known examples on this forum are the Rail travel mod , and the Toxic/Acid Planet type mod. Both are in some capacity planned to be integrated into the core game - either wholesale, or at least in those parts that cannot be modded otherwise (e.g. the acid rain part). Integrating select mods into the vanilla game can provide tremendous benefits not only to the players and modders, but to Chucklefish itself. The community can act as a crowdsourcing channel, rapidly delivering great content. Of course, there is some overhead for Chucklefish to integrate mods into the vanilla game, but it will often be much less work than writing a comparable amount of content from scratch. I think it would be great if there was some kind of criteria and process by which select mods could be absorbed into the vanilla game. Criteria: What constitutes a mod suitable for absorption into the vanilla game? I could think of the following considerations, but there may be others: Thematic fit. The mod should fit well within the story, lore, and art of vanilla Starbound. It should not look or feel out of place, or contain lore conflicting with existing one. Balance. The mod should not introduce over- or under- powered items or mechanics compared to similar ones at the level where its effects are accessible to the player. Value. Beyond merely being a "fit", the mod should offer actual and positive value to the game, in some significant way enhancing the gameplay experience. The value offered should be significant enough to overcome the Chucklefish burden of integrating and maintaining the absorbed mod. This value should also usually be broad enough to positively impact the majority of players, rather than be so esoteric that only a handful of specific playstyles would benefit from it. Copyright. The mod should be created entirely by the player who consents to its absorption into the vanilla game (apart from game assets it uses which are owned by Chucklefish itself, obviously). It should not violate third-party copyright or trademarks, or be based on other games/media. The modder would furthermore agree to transfer of all their mod copyright over to Chucklefish. Credit. There should be an understanding as to the compensation (or lack thereof) for the modder: e.g. limited to in-game credit under "Community Contributors" section, with no financial or other compensation. Process: As for the absorption process, one way is to integrate it into the Mods section of the Starbound website. For example, when submitting a mod, the modder would see a checkbox saying "Request to absorb this mod into the vanilla game". A list of the above Criteria would be given for the modder for review. If the modder considers their mod to be suitable, he or she would proceed submitting it, also giving consent to the copyright/credit criteria as described above. After that, Chucklefish would (eventually) get to review it. As the devs can only focus on so many things at a time, metrics such as mod popularity among players could certainly be a factor. If Chucklefish agrees that the mod is suitable, they would make any needed changes (or discuss them to be made by the mod authors, if possible), and finally release the content into the main game as a future update. The mod itself would either be deprecated, or left in a more narrow state (in cases where Chucklefish chose to only absorb certain parts, while the modder wants to keep the left-out parts to still be available in their mod). Out of scope: I did not discuss the topic of profit-sharing between Chucklefish and authors of absorbed mods, which could attract a lot more modders, but also could be a logistical and financial burden on Chucklefish. I think that a smooth and solid mod absorption process should be ironed out on a voluntary unpaid basis, following which there could be an assessment on whether there is more capacity for paid modders, and that such an idea would indeed attract more and/or better content than that unpaid volunteers are already willing and able to produce. Discussion: What do you think about the concept of absorbing select mods into the vanilla game? Do you agree with the limitations of non-absorbed mods as discussed here, or do you think mods are best left alone, and it's fine to let players and modders work out on their own what mods they should develop and play, without involvement by the game devs? Are issues of immersion and fit important to you, or are the mods you typically play the type that wouldn't be absorbed anyway (e.g. an alternate universe mod modeled after a different game or movie)? Are you the kind of person to install mods early on - and hope they are well-balanced with the rest of the game - or would you rather player a shorter vanilla game to the end, and then install mods no longer worrying about spoiling or disbalancing the experience? Are there any other items you feel are omitted or not represented? Do you think this topic is even a worthwhile thing to discuss, or you just don't see see the big idea? Discussion welcome!
I think given the separated nature of mods right now that they're relatively dangerous. Being client side the server has no real control over what is going on, a user could have a mod that allows them to instantly craft any item without the same cost... these should be server side to prevent for cheating and the likes.
I do understand the general gist of what you're saying, but I think you are overthinking this to a significant degree. Chucklefish is currently handling their own quality control and balancing with regards to mods, and I don't really think that things are falling through the gaps. At the current level, there are not too many mods to manually examine all of them for value in a few minutes each day. In addition, only Chucklefish knows what sort of content they want in their finished vision. I think a system like yours might eventually be worth implementing once we get to final release, but until then I don't see the need. Regarding your main mod limitations, we can look to minecraft as a model. Obviously there needs to be a greater degree of equivalence between client and server, so that modded clients can't even connect. I am confident that this is part of the eventual plan. Incompatibility once the "__merge" command is functional should be near zero for a correctly configured mod. Balance and immersion are difficult to evaluate. For example, I would download a mod that added species bonuses independent of their armors. This is necessarily less balanced (the current state where all species are functionally identical is technically balanced) but also far less immersive, particularly in the case of the hylotl who should be able to breathe water all the time, not just dependent on their armor.
To me, the immersion part is kinda a big deal. In a game like Starbound, I really am looking for a holistic, carefully crafted experience, at least the first playthrough. Sure, once I'm done playing, I could install a bunch of mods and derp around, but I for the first playthrough, I don't want to look at mods and guess "this looks cool, but I wonder whether this will screw with the game's pacing, balance, spoilers, story, etc. 4th wall and all that. (which does suck in a way because I also love trying out mods. Hard choice ><)
I do very much appreciate this effort. As a modder, the idea of having a 'you may absorb my mod into the game' button is incredible. I, as well as many other future and current creators, would be honored to have our work on a game we like to be included (as long as permission was given). Currently, inclusion of mods would be... tricky. Because the modding tools are sure to change, upgrade, and adapt it's almost certain that mods will ALL be broken at some point or another during stage one. This is fine, but it means that almost no mod will be a simple cut-and-paste. Balance is another interesting idea. I don't believe the game can or should be 100% balanced. It's hard to judge, after all, if Hylotl water-breathing is equivalent to an Avain glide mechanic. Sure, gliding SOUNDS more useful, but using water to safely hellivator is also extremely useful- and what will happen when ocean world or whatever are implemented? Thus, for balance I say balance should be managed by throwing a lot of content at players. Even if there is a clear DPS advantage of a certain gun, would the explosion of a grenade launcher beat that? How about the speed of a sword? Or the coverage of an assault rifle? Right now sniper rifles are by far the best standard weapon, almost always. In terms of energy and DPS, sniper rifles beat out most shotguns, pistols, and all assault rifles. That doesn't mean no one uses the other guns, though. It's up to players, not to sift through content and find the best, but to use whatever they feel works for them the best.
Having modding capabilities in the first place allows community driven content to be consumed by players. I don't see a need to have some officiated process to expedite user-land content into the core game, when if Chucklefish want's to add something all they need to do is ask, or do something similar themselves. It's great that the developers are willing to take ideas and mods from the community and implement them into the game, but it has to be completely on their terms. I would find having to review every single mod put into a queue of some sort pretty time consuming and result in a lot more overhead as the game progresses after its release point. To take issue with some of the things you mentioned about mods: Wasn't it mentioned in a previous thread that Multiplayer servers will sync mods on them with the client to ease the process of looking for and installing mods? (ah yes here it is) As Dr. Toros mentions above with _merge functionality. But the problem of incompatible mods is something often, and for obvious reasons, left to user-land. The problem of the original author of a mod no longer being active is certainly a thing, but like other game mod communities another mod will take its place if it doesn't get the attention it needs to stay up to date with the game. Mods aren't meant to be policed by Chucklefish to fit mechanics, lore, etc... It's up to the mod author to decide whether their mod is going to fit nicely to whatever state the game is in, or replicate the games authors vision in some way. This isn't a limitation. If you want balanced and immersive content from a mod the you find those mods and use them - they're already there to use. You integrate mods into the vanilla game when you install them. Being able to mod in the first place is already a tremendous benefit to players and Chucklefish. Modding is essentially crowdsourced content. I guess I just don't see a need for this. It's an interesting idea, of course, but sounds like a lot of over thinking. You'd have people submitting mods left and right regardless of their content, those would have to be filtered out of the queue by Chucklefish, then discussion would have to take place(loads of questions and answers), then Chucklefish would have to review mods before implementing - changing - testing - changing and testing (when they could just be working on their vision of the game and what they want in it and fixing bugs), deal with the issue of copyright and legalities, and the list can go on an on. I say leave the game to Chucklefish, leave the modding to modders, and install what mods you want or don't install them at all.
See, I put in plenty of hours prior to the first wipe, so there really wasn't much "new" to experience, and I was irritated every single time my hylotl went in water and I saw the breath meter start to drain. I've actually devised several workarounds that fix this, but ultimately none of them are what I want, which is waterbreathing only for hylotl, that only works in water and ocean water. Thus far, I've been unable to get it perfect. Either it isn't specific to hylotl, or it just ends up giving infinite breath meter.
I think the current system of "Chucklefish likes a mod, Chucklefish talks to the author" is perfectly fine without inventing a bureaucracy to go along with it. Also, the whole "checkbox/list of criteria to consider" thing would just result in 99.9% of all mods having that box checked, regardless of what they do.
I personally don't believe Chucklefish should force people not to use mods of their choosing, mods wouldn't be mods if they had to follow specific guidelines, they'd just be modules. Also I don't think we should make Chucklefish stop updating his game to decide whether or not a mod fits within the bracket of the lore or if its balanced, or if he wants to implement the mod into his game (Keywords "His game"). It is the job of the player to decide what fits into their own roleplay, seeing how Chucklefish doesn't force mods onto you.
