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Feedback Can we please talk about the old Starbound lore?

Discussion in 'Starbound Discussion' started by GameCraving, Dec 12, 2017.

  1. GameCraving

    GameCraving Aquatic Astronaut

    Just read most of the legacy lore.

    Greenfinger was awesome. I don't know why they removed him. It made me me want to meet this guy in real life and he got that tasty-ass secret going. Makes me so frustrated knowing that I will never know the Floran secret.

    And poor, oh poor Dr. Lax. "I have utter faith in her..........And yet, this is not something I can leave up to faith. " This line.. this line man is just very naice. Greenfinger is the MAN. The FloRAN.

    Big Ape was actually a real guy and not just an illusion to control the Apex. I think Big Ape was actually 'the beast' or is just so goddamn obvious?

    Hiraki Corale's adventures were charming. But kind of cliche. The chaotic neutral whose obliviousness gets into a lot of trouble but never actually gets hurt. But she feels special because she's a girl. Not that being a girl makes you special. #genderequality

    Shame it's all gone.

    And I love that your character wasn't some "chosen one protectorate" shit back then. A lot of people seem to hate that you HAVE TO be the good guy. Wish I'd found out about Starbound before they changed it.
     
  2. D.M.G.

    D.M.G. Master Astronaut

    Hiraki Corale's stories are still in game, just saying

    And technically, so are Greenfingers
    "Are", yes, cos they change the lore
    So it's more of villages leaders than one big Leader for the florans
     
  3. GameCraving

    GameCraving Aquatic Astronaut

    So it is. But that new Greenfinger lore is just sooo bad. I really want my bad-ass Greenfinger back. People speculated that bad-ass Greenfinger was too dark and gritty for the 8 years old demographic so they changed it to appeal to them. And considering Starbound was a crowdfunded game, and most of those crowdfunders were not prepubescent kids, I'm surprised people don't feel betrayed that they changed their direction. Maybe they were just happy for the game to be actually released at the time. Those damned fools.
     
  4. D.M.G.

    D.M.G. Master Astronaut

    People ain't supposed to be in the same things than you

    Moreover, as crowdfunded as it was, it was still CF's game, so their property
     
  5. ProfMoebius

    ProfMoebius Space Penguin Leader

    If you look closeby there is an focus on eyes. The ruin is one giant blob of eyed tentacles.
    According to avian belief Kluex was an kind deity. What if ruin was Kluex ? The avians would be the first to recognize the ruin, offer him tributes to be omnomnomed, only to get favour in return and become his favoured among the stars. Its but logical upon defeating the ruin they have lost all the gifts once bestowed upon them.
    Apex are ruled by an Big Ape that is watching them all the time, what if the source of their obedience is an manifestation of their ancient fears of being watched by the ruin, only it to be replaced by this Big Brother expy ?
    Florans, what if they came into being when carnivoreous plantlife fed upon an chunk of ruin's flesh thus giving those plants consciousness and the source of their unending appetite for flesh. Or better, what if the ruin orchestrated their creation on purpose, so they would be his avatars in a humanoid form.
    the Humans, what if Apex were outright human before transformed into Apex ? There was indeed an cure for the process that caused them to detoriate into Apes, humans would be the small amount of Apex that got administered the cure. That would make Earth either an giant experiment or the first act of rebellion among the Apex that originated in the higher echelons once, for only the highest ranking Miniknog would ever have access to the cure at all.
    Hylotl are also obsessed with their eyes, to the point of making an trio of dots inspired by their eyesight their flag. What if the ruin set forth the Florans upon the ancient Hylotl when the latter turned rebellous towards the ruin ?
    And lastly, the Glitch whom are stuck in medieval age. They would indeed be robotic servants created by the Apex after their detoriation, purpose to re-emulate the development of civilization in order to record useful information that would be needed if Apex would detoriate even further. Since that never came to happen, the Miniknog sabotaged their programming causing them to remain harmlessly stuck in middle-ages phase of the emulation before they could develop further to pose an serious threat. Afterwards they were not eradicated as the subject of robotic medieval knights had been found quite amusing among the populace, sattelites oribiting Glitch worlds delivering liveaction TV shows of their real battles.
    As i have forgotten the Novakids, the source of their being is hidden in their name. They are the remnants of an dying star's energy awakened to consciousness for some reason during its nova. Could have been that this now lost star had an planet with an highly advanced civilization on it, that managed to transcend physical form yet was not able to escape its demise, as the star unexpectedly began to die. The energy beings attempted an fusion with the cosmic energies in order to stay alive as an last ditch attempt during the nova, they suceeded but were forever changed, their entire civilization was lost.
    Their obsession with westerner culture may come from encountering post-nova an timecapsule-like human space probe that had like american wildwest films in it. They have identified with the figure of the free cowboy riding towards the sunset, awakening lost memories in them of their lost past in wake of the nova. Lacking their own culture now they adopted the whole western thing as their own out of sympathy.

    There is an highchance all of these alien deities are the ruin itself in some perception. That would have make ruin the victim here, an fallen god overthrown by its subjects. Most importantly it would give the ruin an reason for wanting to destroy the universe and its inhabitants.
    There may be not even an good and kind Protector titan-like being at all, but an history of how all the races bounded together to overthrow the ruin, which over time became an mythical legend then fade into obscurity.
     
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  6. D.M.G.

    D.M.G. Master Astronaut

    People ain't supposed to be in the same things than you

    Moreover, as crowdfunded as it was, it was still CF's game, so their property
     
  7. GameCraving

    GameCraving Aquatic Astronaut

    Obviously and technically, yes. But Starbound doesn't feel that way because Starbound was a community effort. A lot of the implemented ideas were BOTH from the Devs and the community alike. It was a magical time for Starbound when ideas were flowing like crazy. And actually a lot of people feel the same as I do. There are more threads like this in reddit if you search hard enough.
    It's true, people aren't supposed to like the same things, that's why I created this thread to learn other people's opinions.
     
  8. D.M.G.

    D.M.G. Master Astronaut

    Try to sound clearer then, cos your posts seem more pissed off than else tbh
     
  9. GameCraving

    GameCraving Aquatic Astronaut

    Wow those are really cool theories.

    The Avians actually had lore of who Kluex really was. Read this. Its no longer canon but it feels like it is. It says that Kluex was actually a 'chosen one' by an advanced civilization (I like to call them ancients)to help the Avians technologically prosper. They implanted knowledge in his mind ,and long-story-short the other Avians felt like he was some sort of divine being.The ancients were probably the guys who built the old ruins and portals you find. So the gifts that their 'god' Kluex left behind was technically from the ancients. They even had a war because the people who were oppressed into 'sacrificing' themselves found out who Kluex really was.

    The Apex, that theory is kind of a long shot. In the old lore, Big Ape was actually a real guy. And the new lore is that Big Ape may or may not exist but his purpose was to scare the Apex into falling in line to the higher-ups in the Apex race.

    The Florans,That actually is very possible. Maybe Greenfinger's secret was that. But we'll never know because CHUCKLEFISH REMOVED THE BEST THING, THAT IS MY MAN GREENFINGER.

    The Humans. It was implied in the lore that the apex 'had human features' before the change.I don't understand the rest of what you're saying. Feel free to elaborate.

    The Hylotle. Same, I don't get what you're saying.

    The Glitch, that is actually canon that they were built for that purpose but it was not implied and very unlikely that the Apex built them. I think the Ancients built them. And no they were not sabotaged, they're called the Glitch because there was a Glitch in their programming making them halt in the medieval age and also making them self-aware. It was also hinted that were other experiments like the Glitch where they were really advanced but eventually destroyed themselves. That's why their 'glitch' is both a blessing and a curse cause they would have eventually destroyed themselves like all the others but they will never escape their programming to be stuck in the medieval times.

    The Novakids, that theory is meh. There's a popular theory and maybe even canon, I'm not sure, that the Novakids are actually remnants or 'chunks' of the Cultivator before it exhausted itself to death. That's why they weren't there when the Cultivator gave away the keys cause they didn't exist yet.

    Lol, so that's why you sounded pissed off. And I am pissed off, but not at anyone really, cause I can't really blame Chucklefish for going in that direction because after all it's said and done, they are a company with many people working and some even have kids, I'm guessing. So it would make sense that their priority is the growth of the company, even if it means selling out.

    Also, what time is it there? It's like 2 AM, shouldn't you be asleep?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2017
  10. redxlaser15

    redxlaser15 Big Damn Hero

    I find a lot of this very interesting! I always love it when there is good lore in a game, however, I have read very little of the lore. Thus, I don't have much to contribute. But in any case, it seems understandable why you might be upset, I just wish I could relate me since, like i have said, I don't know much of the old lore. However, I do agree with the whole 'ancients' thing, where else would some of this stuff come from? I once had a theory that the 'evolved glitch' (the 'evolved glitch' as I call them is some of the very little lore I have read) fought a war with the 'ancients,' which was fatal to both. This is why there are a bunch of precursor ruins all over the place! The glitch, having had a glitch, also cannot remember their ancient past, they may have become self aware, but it made them forget the ancient battles and being in medieval times they only had basic paper, which over the thousands, if not millions, of years they eroded away, leaving no trace. The only sign left of the ancients are the ruins scattered across the galaxy.
     
  11. GameCraving

    GameCraving Aquatic Astronaut

    https://starbounder.org/Template:Lorenav

    Treat. Yo. Self.
     
  12. redxlaser15

    redxlaser15 Big Damn Hero

    I've not read much of it yet but DANG some of that is some good lore! No kidding Greenfinger was cool, I like the idea of an overarching leader a little bit more for the florans personally.
     
    GameCraving likes this.
  13. Sparklink

    Sparklink Pangalactic Porcupine

    We actually seem to have a very opposite opinion on the lore. I personally hated the old lore, and Greenfinger most of all. It all felt extremely cliche, with dark mystery after dark mystery. To me the old lore felt like it was trying to be cool and dark but failing, miserably. Starbound is a cartoon-y game; games should have plot lines that reflect their aesthetic. Disregarding the game itself my opinions on the lore and characters:

    The strangest thing about Greenfinger is that he is a Floran, a solitary Floran with knowledge that is several millennia beyond what the Florans are capable of. Based on some pieces of lore and an object, the Florans had only just devised a simple base 10 numbering system, and yet we have Greenfinger who is telling Apex geneticists how to do their jobs. I would not be as annoyed with Greenfinger if he were an Apex, a Human, a Hylotl, or even a Novakid; but being the most primitive race of all, a Floran, is what gets me. Now if it turned out that Greenfinger was actually some vastly intelligent alien who was posing as a Floran in order to control their strength and numbers, then he would be better. But that did not seem to be the case.

    https://starbounder.org/Minutes_of_a_Meeting

    This codex is another one of my nuances.
    We have the leader of the Apex. I am okay with the fact him, mostly.
    Some unknown guy who who is just there. I presume he is human because of this https://starbounder.org/USCM_Field_Handbook. Commander [Redacted]. This seems to be the only other piece of lore where he is mentioned, if it is him.
    Thornwing, leader of the second most primitive race.
    And Greenfinger, leader of the most primitive race there is; who appears to be the most intelligent one in the room.
    Assuming that Redacted is Human he seems rather okay with the fact that his planet has been ripped to shreds by a tentacle beast. Redacted could not be a Glitch were ruled by a hive-mind, and because the Outcasts were too small a faction to be considered a galactic power. He is not a Hylotl because there was no lore for those guys, same goes for the Novakids. It is really odd that we have one, potentially two, advanced races and two species that are working with sticks and stones.

    The Hylotl being the constant butt of every cruel joke was tiring. No body seemed to care about the fact that these people suffered a horrible mass murder of their species. Every species', every individual's opinion always came off as "Too bad the Florans didn't get em all!" be it lore, dialog, or a handful of object descriptions.

    Then we had the Medieval Glitch who were dispersed widely across the universe. It also seems strange that they would even achieve self-awareness serving a hive mind. It was said that the Glitch served this hive mind, and this hive mind issued orders to the Glitch, why would the Hive mind do something that could cause the Glitch to realize they were machines. The Glitch were supposed to simulate a sentient race but the way they serve this hive mind is completely unlike anything natural. And why are these medieval age people building space ships traveling all over the universe. It makes much more sense that the self-aware Glitch are the ones building ships and colonizing the stars; because they are the ones that are not still believing in witches and vampires.

    Some people say that the old lore felt more "Alive" and that "it made it feel like there was actually something happening in the galaxy". To me most of the old lore felt like a work of fiction, a poorly written one. The new lore really did not tear the existing lore apart it simply cut some bad characters. The Miniknog used captured rebels as lab rats for their weapons. The Avians still sacrifice by jumping off towers (though a little more willingly.) The Florans are still savages, and do not have some secret that their very survival as a species hinges upon. The Glitch make more sense. The Hylotl actually have lore; and so do the Novakids, though it is not expressed through the books but through other factors. It seems like every ones biggest annoyance is the Protectorate. In my opinion I would rather have a cliche peace keeping organization than another militaristic depiction of humanity (I am so tired of militaristic humans.) I do not really see what people are going on about with Asra Nox and her alien hatred. She hates aliens because she watched her parents get murdered and her village burned to the ground by a group of alien bandits. I see that as a decent reason for the character to have such a want for vengeance towards aliens.

    Now, all things considered, the new lore is not all that good either. But it is a an improvement from horrid to passable. Story has never really been a major draw for me when it comes to games. If there is a good plot line to the game then that is great but I have really care for the game play. Starbound 1.0, and beyond, delivers excellent game play and that is why I love it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
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  14. GameCraving

    GameCraving Aquatic Astronaut

    You make good points, although....

    About Greenfinger, THATS JUST IT. I don't think Greenfinger is a Floran at all. We know that he is very old, like really old. So that would make the Floran race really old too. Then why are they so primitive? You could argue that they aren't very smart and yes they're really not, BUT any species that can learn how to build a house, work together, build clans, make weapons and armor, can and will evolve and progress as a species. Even us humans were there once.

    My favorite theory about him is that Greenfinger is actually the one who made the Florans considering he is very smart and feels responsible for his creations. He had that protective mom vibe going which I love.

    I didn't get why you didn't like the 'minutes of the meeting' codex. Your writing style is very confusing to me, lol. No offense.

    I didn't know that they made the Hylotle a joke. I wasn't around before 1.0 came out. But that sounds like a terrible idea on the writer's part and I find that very hard to believe. Can u give proof of that because I don't know what to search and google is not cooperating with me.

    Now that you mentioned the Glitch, I don't like their lore all that much. But you got it wrong, they didn't serve a hivemind. They worked as a hivemind. But the thing that bothers me is that the Glitch's glitch made them stuck in the medieval ages. Why only medieval? Why not viking age? Why not feudal japan ? And why can't they progress? If the Glitch made them self-aware, then shouldn't that solve the problem? It's very messy writing. But I do like how they patched it up on why normal meds heal them and how they process food.

    I think the old lore DOES made it feel much more immersive but all in all, people don't play Starbound for the story. They play it for the awesome gameplay. The lore wasn't what brought me into Starbound, but it did add things of why I still play it today.
     
  15. Sparklink

    Sparklink Pangalactic Porcupine

    I can not quite remember where exactly (I used to be a little bit better versed in the old lore) but it was implied that the Florans had evolved into a sentient race a little more recently than all other races. What you say about any species progression is true but such progression is never limited to one individual; it is always several people over the course of many years. Which is why Greenfinger is likely not a Floran, or at least could not be one logically. It was also implied that Greenfinger is responsible for the creature that destroyed Earth in some way, which could mean that he created Florans and that beast in some lab.

    The minutes of a meeting codex, I got side tracked by something while writing this paragraph so I messed it up a little, sorry.
    In short what I meant is that I found it odd that the two least advanced races seemed to be the largest of galactic powers, and yet no more advanced races are mentioned (except Redacted but we do not know what he is)

    When it came to the Hylotl every one seems to hate them for no reason other than they can be a little pretentious. If you played as a Hylotl and talked to an NPC of any race you would be greeted with ether a taunt, an insult, a sarcastic remark, or a dismissive attitude. One Glitch once said "Sarcastic. Tell me of your wonderful architecture." I find this to be pretty awful when you consider that their "wonderful architecture" was left on their home planet to the Floran menace. There is also the Hylotl Spawner https://starbounder.org/Hylotl_Spawner The descriptions show a distaste for the Hylotl by all other races. There are also a hand full of books in which the Hylotl getting abused was the punch-line. Examples

    "...quickly descending into lethal violence if their guests should offend them in some manner. It is also worth noting that it is exceptionally easy to offend a Floran. Examples include: refusing to eat raw meat, damaging the plant life, being a Hylotl"

    "by Floran Huntmaster Sunflower Tzu

    Why only destroy? Why exist just to hunt? A Hylotl said this to Sunflower Tzu once. I stabbed it..."

    "The young Floran stared at the Hylotl crone that stood before her. The Hylotl smiled. 'And so it has come to this,' it said. 'Your final challenge. I present you with riddles three. Riddle the first. Wha-'.

    Before the Hylotl could finish, the young Floran punched it..."

    While it is true that these are Floran books; it is also true that no other race ends up getting punched in the face as a joke.

    "a race controlled by a single hivemind, tireless workers who could build and create." A line from the old Glitch introduction. Serve probably was not quite the best choice of words. The hive mind gives orders and the Glitch do its bidding is what I mean. As for why they were stuck in a medieval stage is unclear. Their glitch caused their progression to halt and they were virtually frozen in a time period. When they became truly sentient they were no longer frozen in place they could advance again. Why there are no vikings or other cultures could be because the Glitch all lived in a close proximity to each other; there were no Glitch who moved else where and built their own cultures and customs.
     
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  16. ProfMoebius

    ProfMoebius Space Penguin Leader

    Those 'Racename Journey Begins' could be recycled for an 'multiplayer freeroam mod' that doesnt necessarily put you up as an protector following a storyline. As for not having the matter manipulator then, you would use an different tool for each function.
    I dont know why Erchius Records are removed, doing that mission the first time was like going down a hatch then oh lol, look mutants are here, so clichee.
    Those USCM related codices should be restored as there are like not much an idea-giving thing in the game about what they are or had been.
    Doctor Lax stuff could be seeded across the many lab structs.
    Thornwing makes mention of a Hellions, are they an seperate species or an group of assassins ?
    Talking of species, what exactly are the bear creatures at Ursa Mining ? Some genetically engineered servant race ? Robots in bear costumes ? Nowhere in the universe did encounter them at all.
    Greenfinger stuff could be easily recycled as renaming him 'Elder Greenfinger', 'Ancient Greenfinger' or 'Arch-Greenfinger'.
    Sunflower Tzu, Hewlett Deckard and Rochard Hawkwings stuff is hilarious, why would such awesome be removed at all.
     
  17. D.M.G.

    D.M.G. Master Astronaut

    We ain't in the same time zone, silly ^^
     
  18. redxlaser15

    redxlaser15 Big Damn Hero

    @Sparklink
    I didn't read the whole thing because I zoned out when you got all racist...
    You'd probably think, being a floran, I'd say something like: "Floran hunt racists!" Or something along those lines, but being floran myself, and as I am not saying that, it simply proves you are racist. I don't wish to 'hunt' you simply because of you being a jerkwad to florans just because a lot of them are 'savages.' Why can't they have an overarching ruler who actually is smart? May god - which may or may not exist - have mercy on your cruel, cruel soul...
     
  19. Sparklink

    Sparklink Pangalactic Porcupine

    @redxlaser15 I never said anything racist only that the old lore was rather mean to poor Hylotl. I also stated a fact; Greenfinger had to be something other than a Floran because such knowledge is way out of their reach. I would say the same about the Glitch if there were some Greenfinger-like character for them.

    The old lore could have been okay if they had done it a little differently. Perhaps thought up the grand conspiracy theories after they established some base-line lore and characters for all the races of Starbound instead of making some powerful characters for three (and one unknown) races and leaving two or three of them left sitting. I think that Chuckle-fish probably could have waited a little bit on introducing this lore until they developed a little more racial game play variation. It was kind of annoying having collected every single piece of lore and not getting some kind of reward for it (and let me tell you I spend hours hunting for every codex, and longer looking for any evidence that the Hylotl actually exist.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
  20. The Observer

    The Observer Phantasmal Quasar

    The lore writer left CF midway through the production process. It's likely that everything was upended from that.
     
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