A Powergamer's Build Order for your first Spring

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ShneekeyTheLost, Jan 15, 2017.

  1. FickleRhubarb

    FickleRhubarb Twenty-three is number one

    What about backpack space on day 1? Probably necessary to trash or plant Mixed Seeds until there's a chest. Is that part of why you'd rather only plant 15 Parsnips?

    When and how do you level up foraging and mining if you are fishing for income? Do you enter The Mines without Cherry Bombs and Staircases? Do you delay putting in Tappers?
     
      Last edited by a moderator: Aug 22, 2019
    • Elenna101

      Elenna101 Subatomic Cosmonaut

      Yeah, that sounds like a better balance to me than planting them day 16 or day 1. I'm not convinced it's worth lowering the number of strawberries/potatoes, because while clicking on 80 plots there's a decent chance of a misclick that will waste some of that water regardless, but that's a YMMV thing.

      From what I understand, the number of possible crows increases every 16 crops, so if you have less than 16, you will definitely not get any crows, but adding 3 more crops to the initial 15 means you have a chance of one crow appearing. That crow then has a smallish (20%, i think?) chance of eating a crop at all, and then it might pick one of your parsnips instead of a bundle crop. So it's unlikely that it'll eat one of the crops for the bundle, but definitely possible.

      Huh, I hadn't considered buying a trout soup spring 2. Presumably you buy less trout soup spring 3, which would be a problem if you were catching catfish, but since you aren't I can see the appeal. That's something to remember.

      Day 1, first thing you do is chop 50 wood and make a chest. If you run out of space before that, which seems unlikely if you make the chest before picking up any forage or anything, on PC you can open the menu and drag the items to a spot outside the menu. This will drop them on the ground (just like how monster drops, for example, fall onto the ground when you kill a monster) and you can pick them up after emptying your inventory into the chest.

      I've seen min-maxers usually get mining 1 and foraging 1 or 2 on day 1, before fishing is an option. After that, yes, I'd enter the mines at mining 1 to start with. In the past I haven't started tappers till summer, but getting those in earlier would be nice. @One More Day when do you usually get foraging 3?
       
      • FickleRhubarb

        FickleRhubarb Twenty-three is number one

        Solid advice. Planting only 15 Parsnips on Spring 1 changes things a lot.
         
        • UnexpectedParole

          UnexpectedParole Phantasmal Quasar

          I've been working my way towards/around the 80 crop plant on day 5. It has serious value. Sometimes I leave the one above the scarecrow out since I can't ever see it anyway. And it gives me that splash cushion for mis-clicking watering cans. Of course if a farmer earns too much money too soon the pet shows up and wants a watering too. Unless you can power game past that need I struggle to not water the pet. But I really struggle spending the time wasting all that travel time and water.

          Frankly, since we're talking power gaming here I don't mind saying on those starts where IF a crow gets my one cauliflower or bean then I don't usually mind restarting anyway. And, since I usually go for 20/21 spaces but only buy 3/4 crops I'll throw in mixed seeds to fill and sometimes get another cauli out of that.

          I have tried several times to not buy trout soup on day 2 and I just end up hating those springs. You are correct, trout soup is not a very common purchase for me day 3. Some farms I struggle to get the money for fiberglass rod and a bit of bait. I've finally learned the value of having enough bait to get to squashing bugs in the mine and making your own. Day 2 is easy to use the trout soup since I chop trees to spend about 100 E. Day 3 I hop up and head straight to spring onions and the beach unless I have lots of energy giving items and then I cop more trees or since I have to wait for Willy to open I usually try to fish the ocean to get just a bit more money. I don't like eating chubs since I usually need to sell them for the cash, but in issues of inventory slots, sometimes it just happens.

          I like to clear the min 20 space patch between the two rocks below the door without breaking any rocks or trees. 3x6 between the rocks and one on either side of the lower rock. This minimizes water and hoe energy on day 1. I then immediately chop enough trees -leaving the stumps to build a chest near the plots.

          I usually when power gaming try to not get foraging level 2 on day 1. Since the seeds don't usually fall until after you've slept off earning foraging 1. But I do come back from meeting everyone on day 1 to finish the day burning my energy chopping trees for a day 2 fishing chest already built before I sleep night 1. I then try very hard to get foraging up to build tappers on the 8th for pine tar to make more speed gro for my strawberries. I find foraging leveling to be very dependent upon how many items are scattered about. 7 per really adds up. While chopping trees (even leaving the stumps) is very tiring and time consuming.
           
          • FickleRhubarb

            FickleRhubarb Twenty-three is number one

            1. Am I evil? I never get a pet.

            2. Why so much worry about filling the can? Is your field not hugging a pond? I usually just plan to run out at the pond or fill when I am at the pond.
             
            • Elenna101

              Elenna101 Subatomic Cosmonaut

              Kinda curious how you arrange your quality sprinklers - I usually don't have a plant directly above the scarecrow anyways, but I also never feel like I'm using the scarecrow to its fullest :p

              how could you, that poor animal :p j/k, you do you. It's one less grandpa point though.

              Walking over to fill the pet's bowl is sometimes a pain, but yeah, this is the other reason I didn't think having exactly 80 plots was that important.
               
              • UnexpectedParole

                UnexpectedParole Phantasmal Quasar

                It is the time/routing issue. I used to have a serious problem with mapping out a crop layout that would get me a certain number of waters, leave me next to the pond and then I'd fill it and move on. But I don't have enough time in the day to walk all over the farm doing chores 1st Spring when I need to go get spring onions, and either fish or mine to generate the income for crops or ingredients for sprinklers. I used to plan for the well to be right there south west of the house which would be north west of my fields. But now I can't seem to remember to stop at Robins to put it in. Plus, with Q. Sprinklers so much quicker now <for me> the well rapidly loses value.

                See above about time. Come to think of it. I used to put a sprinkler over there to water a flower or two and have hives. Does that water the bowl too? hmmmm. I feel like i have had to have tried that before, but can't recall what the result was. I never have sprinlers q or otherwise during the early 9x9, so I'm set up for the scarecrow like you would expect I believe. Just after watering with the can and counting 80 fields is moot. And since that square gets a sprinkler eventually, all the more reason not to worry about hoe planting and watering it needelessly.
                 
                • One More Day

                  One More Day Cosmic Narwhal

                  If you're not even fishing then it's really hard to say you're powergaming at all. And if you don't start fishing in Spring, when do you start? It doesn't get easier just because you delay it, in fact the fish get harder throughout the year. The only difficult fish in spring is the catfish, and you can avoid that one without being badly penalised by just sticking to the mountain lake on day 3, which is still pretty decent income.

                  Without fishing income, I can't actually see how you're going to be able to afford 4k for 80 potatoes on day 6. The 40 parsnips is only going to be worth about 1,500g, minus however many of them you end up eating just to fuel yourself. On top of that, there's the 30 seeds from the spring bundle for 1,050g, there's 2x100g rewards from the journal, and assuming you find an artifact, there's another 250g reward for that. That's going to be less than 3,000g, which means you're still over 1,000g short. I suppose if you go mining on day 5, you might be able to find a few geodes, which sell for 50g each, and a few topaz and amethyst, but it's hard to imagine that you will sell enough geodes and gems in one day to get past 1,000g. If you're not fishing, then you will definitely need to eat leeks and dandelion for energy to do anything, especially if you're wasting 80E or more each day on watering, which means crafting spring seeds is out of the question. And there's no way you can chop enough wood without having lots to eat either. And you likely won't find enough daffodils and horseradish to sell to make up the difference either. Not to mention, even if you do somehow scrounge up 4k for the seeds, if you don't have plenty of chubs to eat, how are you going to have the energy to mine after day 6, if you're using 160E each day just to water your 80 crops? Your rain dance skills are going to have to be very strong indeed. In fact, you're going to need over 300E just to plant and water it all on day 6.

                  Sorry, but if you're not fishing, this whole debate is probably moot.


                  Crows are sneaky little buggers, but OK, if you think it's an acceptable risk to just have one bean and cauli without any insurance. You don't actually need to buy an early potato, you'll find a spare one for the bundle from the 80 you plant on day 6. Still, it's 140g for the early bean and cauli, which is 28 bait lost. Or if you're going for day 3 catfish, the best part of another trout soup. I don't know, maybe that's an acceptable loss. As I said earlier though, I don't see the point bothering with all that effort just to get a measly extra 2k at the end of the season, when it might cost you that much or more in lost opportunity along the way. For instance, straight after the egg festival, this strategy ties you to a round trip of over 2 hours just to go to the CC to donate and then run back again to plant. By the time you've done that, it's going to be closing in on 1am, and there's barely any point trying to do anything.

                  But if you didn't do the speed gro, you could nip to the mountain after the festival and smash out some more ore, or grab an extra bit of fishing for the best part of another 1,000g, or forage the beach before it disappears tonight, because it was unavailable during the festival. Either way, it's a fair amount of time lost that could be spent doing something else, and the 2k payoff for doing the speed gro is so small that it doesn't justify the effort IMO.

                  A chest is literally the first thing I do. I chop the tops off four trees, for at least 12 wood each, plus a couple of loose twigs if necessary, and that's my 50 wood for a chest outside the door. You can't do anything until you have a chest. If you haven't made a chest before you first leave the farm, I really do think you're making a mistake from a powergaming point of view. There is no need to take stuff with you, or any tool except your hoe.

                  You eat pretty much everything you can on day 1, and use the energy. I tend not to eat horseradish because they provide so little energy but sell for quite a bit, but pretty much anything else gets eaten. There's absolutely no point saving items for the forage bundle today, you'll find more of them before you have access to the CC anyway, so leeks and dandelions are food

                  Foraging 1 is automatic on the first day, because you want to chop at least 8 trees for enough wood for two chests, and then you only need to find one forageable in the whole world, or two spring onions, to guarantee Foraging 1. You can also chop a few trees each morning, without worrying too much about energy, because once you go fishing, every cast will bring in more energy than it costs, with the exception of an occasional trash item. Personally, I'd maybe chop down to about 50E, won't take long, then head off to fish for the rest of the day. Eat algae, then chubs; you'll never run out of energy while fishing.

                  I also force Mining 1 on that first day too, by breaking rocks on the farm, so that I at least have cherry bombs when I go into the mines. Normal rocks are 1XP, rocks that drop a piece of coal are 6XP. I stop once I hit Mining 1 and just chop more trees, making sure only to avoid chopping oak trees until day 2. Once I get access to the mines, I would expect to break enough on the first day in there to reach Mining 2. I'm prepared to put up with not having staircases for my first visit though.

                  Continuing to chop on day 1 will get me going towards Foraging 2, but as it doesn't offer anything special, there's no point to rushing it on day 1. In fact, getting too close will limit the number of oak trees that can be chopped next time, because of the tree seed bug.


                  Good point. I have a worryingly large number of hours, including things like speedrunning the vault, which requires a lot of precision watering, so I have learned not to misclick when watering, because an extra detour to refill the can wastes precious seconds. But I suppose I'm probably not representative of the wider SDV-playing population, who will probably misclick occasionally. I didn't really think of that.

                  I didn't know any of that at all. Thanks, it's useful to know. So basically if you don't plant anything else apart from 13 free parsnips, enough for Farming 1, and 1 bean and 1 cauli, it's like having a scarecrow anyway. That's quite interesting.

                  Personally I don't see any benefit to using it for anything other than catfish, but for weaker fishers, I suppose it might help with a particularly aggro chub or largemouth bass. But for it to be cost effective, it has to make the difference for several of them, whereas it only has to help catch a single catfish to pay itself off. The way I got to the stage of catching every single other fish, and not needing day 2 soup, is because I practised it. A lot. I'm not especially gifted, I just started a farm and repeated the same day 2 over and over and over again until I stopped losing fish. After that, I worked hard on catfish too, although I do still miss some of those on day 3 even now. But yeah, I'm sad like that.

                  Usually before I start placing tappers, so I don't really bother forcing that, only Foraging 1 for the acorns. Probably get it around day 8 or 9, depending on trees, mushrooms.

                  Frankly, if we're really talking power gaming, you could just flat out sell the parsnip seeds ....

                  is a complete waste of time in a power game style IMO. They get met when they get met. The reward is a measly 100g, minus the value of your gift, and is totally not worth all the hours it takes.

                  As it should be. They just get in the way
                   
                  • Elenna101

                    Elenna101 Subatomic Cosmonaut

                    The kind of thing one finds out when one spends far more spare time than they should watching Stardew Valley speedrunners. :p

                    Eh, I was thinking it might help with getting more perfects and levelling up faster. I'd have to do some testing to see whether it makes enough of a difference to be worth it.

                    Yeah, but Farming 1. They're surprisingly decent energy/gold (better than salads), too.

                    IDK, it's perfectly reasonable to meet everyone (except Willy obviously) and also get Foraging 1, Mining 1, and 15 parsnips down in one day. What else are you doing day 1?
                     
                    • UnexpectedParole

                      UnexpectedParole Phantasmal Quasar

                      I'm not into the speed running much. I watched one for a bit, not my thing. Good to have some-one sharing tips from them though. Thanks.


                      That is exactly what it is for. Those carp that rise for a sec before staying low don't trip the top quite as fast. It allows time to recognize a bullhead and getting in front of him without starting so early you are rising the bottom above a carp. It gives you more swing room when the chubbs and largemouth bass starting dancing back and forth. I also find it eases the stress level for new fishers and helps keep them from getting put off fishing quite so quickly. they get catches and don't have to wait for trash to skill them up.

                      13 parsnips should be <104> which is farming 1. hmmm... I might have a new start.


                      Other things I could do, from other posts I read .
                      Eating foraging for more power for more rock breaking.
                      More tree cutting. More clearing.
                      Foraging west in Cinder snap.
                      I don't want to level 2 in foraging on day 1. I don't see the need to clear too many rocks on day 1,
                      The foraging will be there on saturday when I make a run to the wizzard anyway.
                      I think I get more value out of meeting the villagers and establishing the contacts. But that is me.
                       
                      • UnexpectedParole

                        UnexpectedParole Phantasmal Quasar

                        If it is a power game run to quickest to 10 hearts for everyone then it's still a power run yeah?
                        We all play our own way and with our own limitations, restrictions and goals yes?

                        Maybe what I should have said was that since we are in a power gaming thread, and talking sometimes about power gaming strategies.
                        One very power gaming thing to do is turn off the game and start over when things don't work out the way you want. And yes, I did say that I am ok with having to restart days 1-5 if a crow eats my sole cauliflower... I'll power game that. But I don't power game the system by passing out at 2am at the mountain lake.




                        Which power game strategy involves selling the initial parsnips?
                         
                          Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
                        • guitardude_324

                          guitardude_324 Big Damn Hero

                          This was a fun read. I don't normally get a sense of how well I'm doing compared to others, this was a good indication of how I'm doing. I'm playing the game again for the first time in a few months. This game always seems to grab my attention, even after over 1000 hours of game time.

                          As of Summer 1, I'm currently sitting at 14,000g, level 105 in the mines, 18 quality sprinklers, over 15 gold star Strawberries (Hoping Demetrius will gift me a nautilus shell before fall.) 12 regular strawberries and about 4 cauliflower (saved for preserve jars). 1 Barn w/4 baby cows and 1 coop w/2 chickens, every tool was upgraded to copper except the hoe. I only have 4 trees tapped right now though, but about 9 of my oak trees are grown now, so they're ready for tapping. I'm on track to have the community center done by Fall 14 (If I can get that Red Cabbage and Nautilus Shell)

                          I'm glad I took the advice to avoid upgrading the backpack before strawberry time. I got about 55ish strawberries at the festival. That made a huge difference from my previous runs.

                          I am curious to know if anybody has ever tried to get the speed gro from the community center spring bundle the night of the festival. A cauliflower planted on day 1 would completed the bundle that night. You could get an extra harvest out of 20 of your strawberries (at least 2,400g). I'll have to test it, maybe a coffee would be worth the purchase for that night. You'd have from 10pm to 2am to run from the farm to the CC, complete the bundle, run back to the farm and put down the fertilizer and strawberries.
                           
                          • One More Day

                            One More Day Cosmic Narwhal

                            Yes, the speed gro can be collected after egg the festival, and plenty of people do it

                            You don't need coffee to make the round trip to the CC; it only takes two hours.
                             
                            • UnexpectedParole

                              UnexpectedParole Phantasmal Quasar

                              Don't get too caught up with keeping up with the Joneses. But yes, it is nice to read what other folks are doing to get ideas for changes you can make to what you are doing, for what-ever reason.

                              Speed-gro after the festival is a common play. Yet It is definitely a debated topic .
                              I almost always do it because I believe I get 50% more XP and 50% more gold from the extra harvest . I don't mind the extra 4 days of watering since the dollars/field/day is much higher than any other crop. I'd have to water 16 cauliflower an entire 12 days to replace the 360 farming XP that I get from watering 20 strawberries an extra 4 days. That is 192 waters for cauliflower and 80 for strawberries. I'll gladly water that much less. Those cauli only sell for 2,800 (1,520 profit) while the strawberries sell for 2,400 which is pure profit.

                              In fact, I've been tweaking my starts to push to get tappers down by spring 8 to have more pine tar to go with the early clams , to have yet more speed gro for the strawberries. I spend so much money on my strawberries that I want as much back out of each plant as possible. -And, if I can buy 50% less strawberries to get the same XP then that might be an option too.
                              But that is how my math works out and my mileage, other folks' varies and rightly so.
                               
                              • ShneekeyTheLost

                                ShneekeyTheLost Black Hole Surfer

                                The real risk of the 20 speed gro strat is that forces you into a Day 1 Cauliflower, and if crows eat it you've not only lost your opportunity to get your 20 speed gro, but now you're that much further behind.

                                I've got a middle of the road opening that seems like an interesting blend of greedy and safe that I'm currently testing for viability over multiple runs.
                                 
                                • UnexpectedParole

                                  UnexpectedParole Phantasmal Quasar

                                  The crows only get it if you plant more than 15 plants <and the rng gets you>.
                                  I'm working on testing that strat right now. The 13 parsnips are enough for farming one on day 5 like we need for teh scarecrow.


                                  And can you explain what you mean how much further 'behind' I would be if an 80g crop got ate instead of a 20g? How does that set me further behind?

                                  The strat plans for fertilizing the strawberries, but if I know by day 5 that it is gone, what is it I have really lost?
                                  -not snarky question at all. A real question as I am not seeing it. thanks.
                                   
                                  • One More Day

                                    One More Day Cosmic Narwhal

                                    In terms of minimising the amount of watering effort required, this is the absolute most efficient way to get to Farming 3, and then Farming 6, without any risk whatsoever.


                                    You plant 13 parsnips, 1 bean and 1 cauli on the first day, and you will still get farming 1 on day 5. The crows will not attack because you have fewer than 16 crops, so nothing gets eaten.

                                    You don't plant anything day 5, so use the parsnips for food, making sure you save one for the bundle, and make the most of the mines becoming available this day to get as deep as possible. Remember, you still need to water the cauli today, and crows still can't eat the cauli or the bean.

                                    On day 6, you use money from fishing to buy your next round of crops. Spend just 2,650g, and under the protective shield of your new scarecrow, you plant 37 kale and 1 potato, which keeps your number of plots to 40, ie one full watering can. On day 12 you can harvest your crops, and then you wake up on day 13 with farming 3 for the speed gro crafting recipe, and all the items for the spring crops bundle. Selling the kale means you'll also have the 4,000g you need to buy 40 strawberry seeds.

                                    Assuming you find the ingredients to craft another 20 speed gro, for 40 total strawberries with speed gro, you can then hit Farming 6, for quality sprinklers, with minimal farming effort beyond that 40 crops.

                                    The only other thing that you need to do is, as soon as you can after you have the scarecrow, hoe out another 48 plots, apply basic fertiliser and plant 48 parsnips. Don't water them, just leave them and let the rain do as much of the watering as possible for you. So, you only start watering them on day 24, delaying that start by one day for each rainy day you got: if you are lucky, you might never need to water them at all. Harvest these parsnips last, at the end of the season, and this will also comfortably get you the 5x gold parsnips you need for the quality crops bundle, plus the remaining required XP for the quality sprinklers.
                                     
                                      Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
                                    • UnexpectedParole

                                      UnexpectedParole Phantasmal Quasar

                                      I don't hate this at all, and was looking at similar strategies myself. Thanks for the different angle. I might suggest though, that gold cauliflowers are also great to get. 5 for the quality bundle, 1 for Soup during summer festival, and maybe I'll try to work in planting them too. You've given me an idea for how to do that and also maybe get a regular sprinkler so I can take a day off to upgrade the watering can before the festival without losing a day on the cauli. <through strictly speaking the upgraded watering can might be un-neccessary. I just want to look into it> cheers
                                       
                                      • One More Day

                                        One More Day Cosmic Narwhal

                                        Cauliflowers aren't an option for the quality crops bundle; the only choices are parsnips, melons, corn and pumpkins


                                        And to save trying to shoehorn in a whole bunch of cauliflowers, which are rather lacklustre crops anyway, in the hope of getting a gold one, you can just put a gold quality sturgeon in the soup; they're available in summer, much easier to get than a gold cauliflower


                                        You need farming 2 to get the recipe for a basic sprinkler, which is an enormous investment of effort just to water one plant for one day. Much easier to have 5 copper bars and 2,000g on standby, so you're ready to upgrade the can at the first sight of a rainy day on the weather forecast. But don't give your can to Clint on day 11, even if day 12 is going to be rainy, because you won't be able to collect it on day 13. Similarly, don't put it in on day 22 either, even if day 23 is rainy, because Clint will also be closed for the Flower Dance on day 24
                                         
                                        • UnexpectedParole

                                          UnexpectedParole Phantasmal Quasar

                                          Quite right about the quality cauliflower. for some reason today I was thinking it was 4 out of 5 including cauli. I don't know where that was coming from. in that case, I don't really need the cauli. -whew. Though finding time to catch sturgeon in the summer is usually a little hard for me. I'll look for my other options.
                                          I do need the sprinkler for something 'later' anyway. And my thought was having the sprinkler gets me the upgrade when I want it (say spring 10) . Which immediately benefits all of my waterings after that date. Instead of "maybe I'll get it when it rains.. which will be 'too late' for what I'm looking at. - out of context it doesn't make a ton of sense maybe. But we'll see. I'll share more when I get a chance to . It probably isn't going to pan out though going with "only 15 plants" to start" 13 of which are the parsnips for day 5. and staying under 16 until the scarecrow is built on day 6. But again, this was the very early stages of researching one of those late night hare-brained ideas.. "I wonder if xxx would work.."
                                           

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