Feedback The new toolbar is terrible

it's not "abused term" if it's the truth, only the truth and nothing but the truth... When i bought this game i bought "Super Mario World" one day it updated and I got "Mario is missing" instead, that is a scam

 

Have you tried pressing X, chief? You get a whole other set of hotbar spaces. Took me a while to figure that out, too.

 

So email the dev and ask for a refund. This is like WoW all over again: Those who quit don't spam the forums about why they're quitting, they just quit.

As yet the vast majority of your posts are hilariously overstating the case for minor quibbles on an interface design based on a false impression you had that everything in the alpha would continue exactly as it was, which was not only often pointed out not to be the case by the devs, but is simply something that cannot even be reasonably assumed in general.

 

I already did, she sent me to steam, steam keeps sending me here... asking for justice here is the eternal bureaucracy.

 

Those who quit, want to quit. I just want the game I enjoyed back.

I can reasonably expect a feature of the game to continue existing in its established form if it fulfilled its purpose adequately, if it complied with established standards, if it caused no significant confusion in first-time users, if there had been no communicated displeasure from the developers of the feature's state, and if all that had continued to hold true for the years the game had been in development, as the feature had been introduced and improved on to its then-current state from the very beginning, right up until the point when it was not merely changed, but torn up by its roots and replaced, irreversibly, with something almost fundamentally different. I could have even been reasonably expected to cope with that change, had it not been done to the feature of utmost importance to the game's core gameplay process, and had it not been a change of such severe magnitude.

I cannot be reasonably expected not to express my utmost displeasure, not just at the change itself, and not merely at the magnitude of it, but also at the wanton disregard with which it had been forced on the playerbase.

 

while its irrational to expect everything to be the same, its equally irrational to expect everything to change. the old hotbar had nothing wrong with it (through the entire beta, I dont think anyone complained about it once).

also, when you buy a game, you are only guaranteed the version that exists at that moment. the game many of us bought had a different hotbar (one that many of us preferred)
the version we bought (and therefor, the hotbar we liked) is no longer obtainable

if the earlier versions of starbound were free and I paid for this one, I would want a refund
but I bought the old versions, and more than got my moneys worth from them, I wouldnt feel right asking for a refund now

 

So in the last 1 month plus I haven't been able to play for more then 1 hour total. I hate the UI so much I can't play the game. I want to smother the UI with a pillow. To those calling it being dramatic this is coming from someone with 314 hours of play. It's not fun anymore, it's annoying.

I'd forgive the stupid forced story line garbage that destroyed the sandbox elements, I could just console cheat and rush past that trash.

If you like the change, w/e have fun. I can't anymore, so it's my loss.

 

It's really not that bad, and if anything I found the previous iteration a lot more fiddly than it is now. As mentioned, I play with a controller (which is recommend by the way) and the new toolbar actually improves my experience. I think you've veered into the realms of hyperbole, but what exactly is it that the new Hotbar is doing that's causing you to lose sleep over a game?

 

For one, I don't play with a controller. This is not "just" an action-platformer, the needs of the game are rather broader, so a controller is not universally superior; that and I haven't seen playing with a controller being recommend(ed) anywhere.

And, good for you! From the exact same minute I saw the first pictures of the new hotbar, that was the thought I had for it. That it is designed to accommodate controller-using players. I stated my thoughts as such, numerous times, as did others. This query, of whether the new hotbar was designed with controllers in mind, such as for future console versions, prompted the first ever developer reply we ever got on the matter:

So, there's that.

As for what it does wrong for me... well, just about everything. The only thing it still does as a hotbar should, is allow you to select a thing on it with a key or a mouse click.

• You can't manipulate items on the hotbar, and by items I mean elements on it, be they shortcuts to items or actual items. You can add them, and you can remove them, and you can only do either when the inventory interface is open. No more drag&drop, and god forbid you try it without stopping to open the screen-covering inventory window first.
  
• Compared to the old hotbar, it forces you to pick and choose exact pairs of items for each slot, instead of allowing free selection of combinations on-the-fly. Some people find it easier to play while so restricted. I don't.
• Combining the above two, it is about as pliable as a brick wall when it comes to playing the game in different ways - not only does it not allow dynamic selection of pairs, but it also prevents you from altering its contents without stopping and opening up the inventory. If you find yourself in combat, you absolutely need to be prepared for it beforehand, even if you were building, exploring, or just goofing around trying out different items.
• It hides half of itself behind a switch key, without providing hotkey access to the hidden half. This not only prevents you from seeing what's actually in your hotbar at a glance, but also prevents you from actually accessing half of it quickly, and requires you to keep the current state of the bar in mind, or keep glancing over to it as you are, for instance, locked in combat with something.
• It uses dual-item slots exclusively, ostensibly to facilitate dual-wielding. This is ridiculous for several reasons, not least of which is that most items in the game are actually two-handed, and the use of dual-slots is what caused the thing to spill over into two halves in the first place, as it wouldn't have fit in the screen width on lower resolutions otherwise.
• It has the Matter Manipulator nodes in the center of the row, interfering with mousewheel scrolling. I have no words.
• And compared to the old hotbar, it replaces the configurable default slots with always empty hands. Giving players the option to select their default items, especially since hotbar items are shortcuts and can be simply dismissed instead of having to be put back, probably made too much sense.

I can pick all kinds of nits with this thing on top of that, but the core of the matter is that nobody gave us the option to keep the old layout. To hell with item shortcuts, I don't mind it that they're there. I'm not going to weep over 10 inventory slots when we've already got too many. I just want the flexibility of gameplay back. I can't play when the UI makes me feel like I'm wearing a straightjacket.

 

I can see the enjoyment of playign with a controller, problem is if I wanted to play a game with a controller I would use a console so I didn't have my keyboard and mouse sitting in front of me.

I quit only because the hotbar killed all enjoyment I had with the game and it's obvious harping the devs with feedback = using a electric type move on a ground type.

Its not just chucklefish either since most developers, even microsoft and apple, have added additions to their products that users hated with a burning passion.. when did feedback get those flawed features fixed? Ive been around for long enough to know that trying to get a "feedback mob" together to fix a flaw is impossible unless something unifys and FORCES all users to fight together. Main example of this? Steam workshop skyrim paid mods. We all saw how that went down and the outcome as a result but that was one of the few times players will band together without massive work to willingly band together and if players don't band together nothing will ever change.

Long story short, everyone who just up and quit instead of spamming feedback are those who have been desanitized by developers in this day and age outright ignoring feedback despite asking for it in the first place. Im one of those players so it's alot easier to just move on and play minecraft or terraria at this point since I can at least use those games hotbars properly to enjoy the games. Minecrafts upcoming advance rockerty mod also seems like it will fill my "starbound" niche too so extra bonus there.

Basically the players aren't the ones that lose out, the devs do from the decision and if they refuse to listen to the feedback they got on the bar so far then when sales take a hit thats on them in the long run. I know I can't in good faith recommend the game until they at the very least add a option to use the old hotbar, as a matter f fact I outright tell everyone that asks me about the game to NOT buy it since hotbars unusable at this point in time.
I may of quit before putting in the effort but I never forgot about the game and that shows in my 'recommendations' to others, my exact words: "Go buy terraria or minecraft instead or even KSP, trust me on that. Will save you alot of trouble"

 

the current hotbar is clunky and destroyed my ability to swap between multiple weapons while keeping my grappling hook in play like some kind of awesome space-batman.

there's many more eloquent ways for me to explain why i don't like it, but i LIKED being space-batman.

 

I personally am really on the fence, cause both toolbars have their pros and cons. If they had kept the whole "if this slot is not being used, it's automatically filled by the tool you have in this red section here" function, then I would be a lot happier I think, cause then it'd essentially function as both at once. People who like the new toolbar could still use the dual-slots, but also people who like the old toolbar could fill the slots accordingly.

Additionally, some more dual-slots could be nice, too. Sure some people argue that you can't reach past 6-7 if you're busy using the WASD keys, but most mouses (at least out of those I've seen) have some form of a mouse wheel that let you cycle through them without needing to touch the numbers at all, and I think you're able to click on the slots too to choose one.

 

Um... X? I'm not sure what you mean here.

 

I think what is meant by that, is there is the x key that can switch the hotbars, but no actual keys for the individual slots. The 1-6 only works for the visible set, and there are no keys for the alternate set until you switch the hotbar.

In other words not having keys 7 to = being the keys that will automatically use what ever is in that slot number that is hidden from view. Which would be the normal used default keys for hotbars that have 12 keys coordinated with it.

X is just to switch between the hotbars, not switch to something on the other hotbar. Basically, if I am reading that correctly.

 

This is essentially a criticism along the lines of "Factorio had most of the same problems and they still did it better".

Basically, X just switches you to a second set of 1-6 shortcuts. You change the items you see, but you still can't see the whole set at once. I mean, it's probably okay if you just want a reminder of what's on your bar when nothing is happening, but if you're busy with something that's trying to kill you you don't have the time to swap around and look what you got where. It's sort of a maxim for action games - if a part of the interface is hidden behind a switch, it means that that part of the interface is not supposed to be interacted with during the action. It is literally a switch, you use it to "switch modes" as it were, so at any given time the second hotbar may as well not exist. You can't see it, you can't select something on it with hotkeys, you can't click on it, you can't scroll to it, etc.

Factorio... is a very different game. It is, coincidentally, one of the highest-rated games on Steam, but that is not substantial to this matter. Just felt like mentioning it. What Factorio has, is a secondary hotbar that your character eventually gets. It's still gated behind a switch key if you want to use shortcuts with it, so you need to press (Tab, I think) to be able to select the items in the second row with your 1-0 hotkeys. And you still can't scroll to it. The difference is, you can plainly see the second hotbar on the screen at all times. You can select items on it directly, you can manipulate and change items on it directly. Even though Factorio has the same action/building split that Starbound does, and the second hotbar serves the same sort of purpose, usually containing combat-related items like deployable drones, healthpacks, or damage boosts, all of the problems inherent with putting the second hotbar behind a switch vanish because the hotbar is never truly "locked away". It's still always there, you can still see it and use stuff on it regardless of which half you have selected. Like if you're building a base on the frontier and need the combat items ready, you can just use the building items directly from the second bar. Some mods add even further expansions. Third, fourth hotbar. It still all follows the same principles. And it's never a problem there.

 

That's always how I treated it. I had a "exploring/combat/etc" toolbar and a "construction" toolbar. (did much the same in Factorio, for that matter, though less was dedicated to combat since you always have your weapons separate from tools)

 

Listen, the new hotbar is not more intuitive at all. The old one is much better. Are you dual wielding? No problem, I'll asign the second sword/gun to my right hand, and then I'll just put the first weapon into my left hand. Need a light? Pick the flashlight with your mouse scroll (as quick and basic as it can get) and you still have your sword/gun ready to go spelunking and kick some alien ass. need a medkit to heal? again, scroll to your healing item and you can still defend yourself with your right hand. That's what made the hotbar actually intuitive- you only had to pick your left/right hand wisely. It's simple- give your right hand something you know won't be changing soon (again, going spelunking? give your right hand a flashlight and you can alter between melee/ranged weapons, grapling hook, healing stuff while still being able to see. do you like dual wielding more? assign a one handed weapon to your right hand, and you can quickly alter between your second one hand weapon and torches (if you are in a cave)) and you could alter your left hand only. Instead, I now have one gun in three slots. Three bloody slots. Because one is a gun and another gun (Dual wield), second a gun and a flashlight (cave exploration/night time outside exploration) and third a gun and a healing salve (when I need to defend myself and heal). Are you even serious?!?! That means that if I use one gun with every other item in my hotbar, I have to asign my gun to every slot. Do I want to dual wield two swords in my hotbar? Well bad luck, they're in two different slot that you cannot combine. Why? Because your gun is in the other half of those slots. Why limit your ability to combine different things to use by dual wielding to those slots that are not flexible at all, unlike the old hotbar?!?!

The old one made it so that I had nine items on my hotbar, and I could combine them in whatever fashion I saw fit. I could use my gun with whatever item I wanted to (provided it wasn't two hands only) and so could I every other item.

And don't give me that 'how can you even press 9 to access item number nine in time', as I stated before, mouse scroll for left hand and Shift+ Mouse scroll for right hand stuff is as quick and basic as literally moving your finger.

How 'bout a little math test? how many two handed combinations can you make on your hotbar, without around in the inventory? Twelfe. How many could you do in the old hotbar? 36. As in, thirty six. Three times the amount of combinations. So come on new hot bar fans, tell me how much bigger the hotbar is, I'll be more than happy to prove you wrong.

Why did Chucklefish remove it completely? why not give a option? Don't fix what's not broken. And if you want to say 'well I couldn't adjust to the old hotbar', I can't adjust to the new one. And what now? Will chucklefish just have to say screw it and make a third one, because we can't adjust 100% as a community to either one?

Chucklefish, make it an option. Those who like the new one, can keep the new one. Those who like the old one, can pick the old one. Those who don't care, don't have to do anything, because they don't have to adjust it. And those who are on the fence can try them both simultaneously and pick one. Problem solved.


And i am not alienating casual players. I am a casual player. And i understood the old hotbar. It was simple and i don't get how could you people consider it clunky, weird, or confusing.

 

You're a little late to the party.. The toolbar isn't going anywhere. Especially not when you seem to love your capslock so much when making your point known.

Most people have adapted to the new one anyway.

 

While his way of expressing his opinion definitely ruined his chances to be taken seriously does it not change the fact that the new toolbar is worse than the old one in every single way aside the ability to press a button to empty your hands.

But yeah it won't go away, because the moodswing of one dev with a "great" idea has more weight than the feedback from the players that play the game in the end. That's sad but won't change, you're right about that one.

Also the "late to the party" comment is hilarious, the feedback about the new toolbar was "late to the party" before it even became added to the game because said feedback was ignored from the moment they added it all the way until now.

 

I'm late, yeah, but because Mount and Blade was on sale on Steam a while back, and I finally got around to play DOOM, so I was occupied with that.

Yesterday I tried to search for a mod that could bring back the old toolbar, and found nothing but people complaining on Reddit, CF forums and Steam about the new one. I just wanted to give my two cents on the issue.

I am aware that my foul language and caps lock may make people not take my comment seriously. I also wasn't aware that I should watch my language around here until this morning, when a mod notified me that they had to edit my comment. I understand that I may have looked like a small irrational kid, but it was not intentional. I just tend to get carried away when something bugs me so much.