The Difficulty of Nightly Builds.

I've seen screenshots of IWBTG and Battletoads does not look anywhere near that hard as some of these newer ridiculous "retro" games are trying to be.

MOST NES games might seem unfair, but they don't have rooms filled with spikes. Well, OK those disappearing block levels in Mega Man are kinda stupid (never did like those), but barring that and similar, a game like Battletoads can be done if you memorize it with just a couple "sticky" parts in the game that'll mess you up if you make a slight error in movement.

IWBTG and games like it are even more ridiculous; from screenshots I've seen, it looks like every single screen looks like that kind of 'sticky spot' almost. Rather than just 1-2 of those places per level, whole levels become this.

But that aside.....

There's really no need for Starbound to be that ridiculously hard. Include an ultra-hardcore option to turn on if you want, sure! Make it so that merely touching lava insta-kills you and drops all of your equipment, and make every enemy in the game kill you in 2 hits if you want, just don't force it on the rest of us who just want to enjoy the game at a more casual pace.

These days, with me being older and my fingers prone to cramps and pains, I'm not really looking for the hardcore experience anymore. I still enjoy video games, but I don't like the kind that force me to repay and replay and replay the same content over and over and over again. That's why I favor RPGs, usually. Starbound and Terraria, though, give me a unique side-scrolling experience that you really can't find in any other game except Minecraft (which is far too pixellated for my tastes). I don't mind Pixellated games, but there are limits. Terraria and Starbound are OK; I like the nostalgia. Minecraft just takes that too far, where everything is made out of giant blocks and I just don't like the art style.

Not saying that game is bad per se (lots of people apparently love it), it just isn't something that I'm into.

But anyways.

If you want extra challenge difficulty thingies tacked on, hey fine. Just be sure to give the rest of us some options to turn on/off to give people like me a fun experience too.

And I'd really appreciate it, if the more hardcore people would stop it with the insults and the demeaning tone. There's really no call or excuse for talking down to us, like some people have in threads like this one.

What I choose to do in my SINGLE-player games does not affect you in the slightest. I merely want the ability to enjoy my SINGLE-player game. I can't say I find dropping ore (and thus losing lots of work) enjoyable. Especially not if the death was for cheap reasons or RNG (bad terrain, dropping an enemy on top of my head, etc).

 

First, you just tilted the machine. That automatically disqualifies you, and you lost your quarter AND the fragile respect of everyone else within earshot, because those things had alarms.

Second, tabletop Pacman was also fun. You could have your drink on the glass while you played, and a burger on the side. And there were two chairs attached to the machine, so you could watch your buddy play, if you don't mind watching the game "upside down."

Third, I'm all about the original zelda NES game. And beating it with no sword. I'm not talking about not using the sword, I'm talking about an empty A slot, the entire game. That guy in the first cave, who says take this? Yeah, I didn't take anything from strangers. You learn how to use bombs, how to rush to the 6th castle to get the wand (yay, a non-consumable weapon!) and how to dodge everything like a mofo. And it's doable, because silver arrows can hurt Gannon at the end, you don't NEED the master sword.

But on-topic...

This. Death penalties are such an acquired taste that I think it's simply best to leave them as an option. Simply because you/I/we like things a certain way does not mean that others should like it the same way. Hopefully the options are comprehensive enough that each player can find something they enjoy (not just tolerate, but actually enjoy), and then we can all be happy, or at least we can all find something to complain about from the News forum (AI endowments, novakid train color, etc).

 

What ever happened to the idea of "play it as was intended" as opposed to "play however you like". The former has been a staple of the games industry for a long time, where as the latter has become significantly more prevalent in the past 5 years. Not that I'm saying player decisions should be avoided, but order is something that most games benefit from. Megaman is the best example of player choice done right. You can kill the bosses in any order, some stages even split on multiple paths, but you are still guided to the objective and have to beat it the way they intended. Everyone here should play "The Stanley Parable". It gives some very nice insight into what happens when players choose their on path.

I'd leave it up to the Devs to figure out how they want us to play their game and from there we can branch into alternates.

 

The audience demographic has changed since earlier times. In the Megaman days, how many people played that game, a few hundred thousand? Nowadays, games attract hundreds of millions of players. With the larger audience, it's only natural that the playerbase has a wider variation in tastes and preferences, so it's much more difficult to adopt a "One Size Fits All" approach.

 

Being told how to play a game or figuring out how they want us to play, whichever wording you prefer to put it, just doesn't fly these days. If someone told me I was playing a sandbox game wrong, I'd tell them to shut it because hey, it's a freaking Sandbox game. Most video game players do not like being told by developers how they have to play the game, at that point it will be perceived as a chore or less enjoyable since each person has their own preference.

 

Mkay... but it's apparent that you watch a film from beginning to end, you read a book from beginning to end, that's because they follow the pattern as arranged by the writer. Have you ever watched Memento? It's a great film. If you've ever watched it in chronological order, it's terrible. There is a lot to be said for experiencing things the way that artists intend it to be experienced. Video game design is indeed an art form and a little respect should be paid to how they think you should play.

Also, it's totally fine to play however you want, but if you plan to do something that isn't on the path to progression, you can't get mad that you aren't progressing.

 

Don't some melea weapons have a right click ranged attack?.

Why does difficulty need to be under implemented and "tacked on" for you to be appeased, id appreciate it if the difficulty was balanced for a fun and CHALLENGING game experience, this is what makes games good/entertaining whether you realize it or not. You have played terraria right, difficulty is not "tacked" on the bosses are legitimately fun to fight and hell is/the game itself and the dungeons are legitamately challenging. If a game were easy peasy, no one would actually enjoy it. The fun in games comes from the reward of beating something challenging/ doing cool things after dealing with challenge for awhile. Minecraft isnt even easy peasy. And Its one of the most popular games in existance, name a game that is popular but its vanilla is not challenging in any way. You really cant.

Its better for games to "tack on" easiness then difficulty, for example minecrafts creative and peaceful modes, (Note that these modes ARE NOT) the default if they were, players would quit playing a week or two once the novelty wears off.

The "group" that you belong to (ill say you belong toa group of casual/softcore gamers) are not the only ones who play this game, so the devs wont just appease you and throw everyone else (who payed for the game) out to a curb.


Not saying that I much like the ore drop, i would rather if we are forced to have an ore drop that it be at least put in some containers so it doesn't despawn.

 

There's a difference between books and films, never-mind games being thrown in as well. I can't help but get the feeling you keep creating these analogies and such to try and give some artificial strength to your arguments, I do hope I'm wrong on that last part though.

I'm glad you mentioned progression though, and that's because potentially losing items required for progression permanently (stuff in lava for example) is a great way to kill progression. Also, I think you've mentioned Mega Man on the NES before as being difficult. Here's the thing: Mega Man was a level-based platforming game, you had a good idea of what was supposed to be done. Enemies were always off-screen like in Starbound, but none of them were randomly spawned, they were all set-pieces that moved when you got within a certain distance of them.

Starbound is a sand-box game. The problem with being told what to do too much (I expect some direction in the game, obviously) in a sandbox game is that it starts to stop being a sandbox game bit by bit.

I have trouble accepting being told how to play the game when even Tiy seems to not be entirely clear on what the game is supposed to be. A few months ago, Sector X was going to be all about the PvP, but now we've got no sectors and it might simply be tiered planets that offer PvP in sporadic areas, maybe. Before, you could work up enough coal to go to a different planet in the starting sector, now you're forced to stay on one planet and hope you get enough stuff to progress simply to another planet because sectors are gone now. Before, we had a more clear line of progression, but now I'm hearing horror stories about people in the Nightly builds ending up on Tier 3 planets due to bad RNG, that better be a bug because holy crap can that end up pushing away potential players. I'd rather not even get into how being forced to use certain pick-axes to mine ores is aggravating, as that means delaying the creation of decent armor and weapons to survive even longer.

I get stuff changes a lot in a game's pre-release stages, but changing things that originally worked just fine is not going to go over well with a lot of people. I've seen maybe 10-12 people be okay with ores dropping on death, and that's being generous. I've seen a lot more people talk about how bad it is and that they don't want the option forced on them, that they would prefer for it to be an optional setting. Not tied to difficulty levels, just an optional setting that can be used at any difficulty, is that too much to ask for in this game?

 

What forum have you been watching... it seems more people simply don't want the ore despawning, then want it actually removed.. and ive seen much more then 12 people saying they like some sort of challenge.... in fact ive only seen a small amount yelling about how ore drop must be removed and not taking no for an answer/not willing to have it any other way/not coming up with BETTER SYSTEMS for ore drop.



Not to mention the amount of players who ARE NOT on the forums.


This isnt an "us vs them" thing everyone wants fun, and im sorry but you and the few other people who fully agree with you and me and the group of people who agree with me, are not the only people who play this game. The devs have to make a judgement call. And appease both groups lest they lose a huge portion of the fanbase either way.

 

My use of analogies is to illustrate my point. Other forms of art are given rigid structures and seem to do well with them. Additionally, you can choose to read every other page of a book and then double back, but the story would make absolutely no sense, leaving the intended experience tarnished and underwhelming. No one is going to tell you that each planet should have a specific solution that has to be done a certain way, but at the same time we shouldn't be discounting mechanics just because we don't personally like them.

For me part of enjoying a game is getting out of my comfort zone. Dealing with challenging and interesting mechanics is invigorating, and if I screw up or can't hack it, I should pay a price for that.

I mentioned Megaman as a franchise that's did player choice in a way that I appreciated; Enough to make the player feel important, but not so much as to have no idea where it's going. Seriously, you should play "The Stanley Parable". It's basically the argument were having about choice but in delightful game form.

Your image of what would make this game great seems to be based around exploring, combat, & crafting combat based items. To other people, mining and building are far more interesting. I personally upgrade my pickaxe several tiers before even crafting copper armor. It also seems like you're in a rush to experience everything you possibly can, somewhat like gameplay is an inconvenience rather than the reason you're there. It's like people complaining about doing things to get to the "fun part of the game". If you don't enjoy parts of the game, and they're required, maybe that game just isn't your bag. That's not anyone's fault. That however doesn't give you a right to demand they change the game to suit you're play style. If that were the case, Blizzard would have removed leveling from WoW years ago (as it's a core mechanic that people vocally dislike).

EDIT: I would also like to add, I'm talking purely for myself at the moment and I expect you'll do the same. We both can't assume the aimless mob know as "the community" agrees with either of us or that they have the same level of knowledge on the situation / argument that we do.

 

EXACTLY, there are so many players that any one gameplay style is not the majority, either way.


If the devs only listened to one person they would ruin it for so many more people. Having challenge is not an "inconvenience" it is supposed to be part of the fun.


The devs can and will try to appease all groups, until it gets to a point where they can no longer do so.
Im not against peopel like zuvail playing the game (or against the way either of you play the game), but i believe the devs should implement a way around it (teleporters out of the dangerous cave for example) make it expensive.

Xylia had a great idea on the other death penalty thread. Ill quote it.

I for one LOVE HIS IDEA.
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Ok, Folks! A little something I posted in the Nightly Findings, for your spelunking situations.



A den full of tribbles and moles! getting their filth all over the gold!

Currently the tribbles don't aggro, but the moles do with Mighty Roar and Recover. by intentionally aggroing the moles and jumping into the hole. There you can deal with the tribbles individually, or use the hole to snipe at the moles, or both! =)



And the Cuddly Cuddlies are no more...