Starbound preview at Insomnia Gaming Festival

Spiro, both of the sections you quoted were a while ago and i feel you misunderstood what i meant in both situations. In terms of beta i was saying it would be more preferable to develop core systems and get them running smoothly first, then start adding the "fluff" features. I say fluff because they aren't required to make the game run. Yes, i know they are the reason we want the game, the reason starbound will be awesome, so on and so forth. Not a semantic thing here, you know what i mean. But get the core done, then start working on the other stuff, all the while letting the community who preordered the game play around with what is finished. Some bugs, sure but that's to be expected. My point with that was playing the game that is lacking farming, music generation, some furniture, etc. would be preferable to playing nothing while we wait for all of them to be done at once.

In terms of the youtuber thing, my issue with it is not giving the people an option to see gameplay before they buy it. Hell, i do this myself. I rarely buy a game without seeing a short gameplay video of it, and i come to youtube for it. I don't go for reviews, i go for someone recording themselves playing it. I do this because nine times out of ten the developers give a very biased highlight reel or no gameplay at all. So i like to have something real to go off of. Now my point against giving them a super early copy is when i go finding these gameplay videos my next stop is to the website to buy the game. I've hit situations where this is not possible. So in those situations i most likely just forget the game entirely. Yet if they get the game at the same time as everyone else, the video still gets made, the people still see it, only now they can come buy the game afterward. How does that not make sense?

As for your example of releasing it to modders, that only holds true with advanced builds of the game that would change drastic things that the modders would need to redo a lot of work to have the mod updated for the next game update. There is nothing wrong with that at all. My issue is exclusivity to some people, while everyone else gets nothing. That is something that i expect from the top companies in the industry who only care about raking in as many dollars as possible. Not indie companies. Indie companies are gamers like us who are talented enough and have a vision to make a game to share with others. I have more respect for them for good reason: They treat people right.

 

On your first point, I don't think anyone capable of working on core features isn't. There are only a few coders, and all are working on getting the base features in. No matter how good a pixel artist Rho is, she will not be able to implement a quest interface in C++. When Tiy or anyone adds a bunch of "fluff" items, it doesn't slow Bartwe or Kyren down while they toil in the code mines. Also, to paraphrase Tiy, one man's fluff is another's core feature.

You can buy Starbound now. It is a preorder, but if you see the game and want it there is nothing stopping you from putting your money down. It's easy for Tiy to say "this is still broken, so don't do this" to a youtuber and then expose SB to hundreds of thousands of new people (aka customers). The game comes out the same time either way, so no one loses anything (in fact fans get even more content to watch prerelease), but Tiy and crew get free advertising and more (pre)sales. Why begrudge them success? Which leads to my next point...

Indies are not charities. I strongly reject the idea that indies are supposed to be some sort of new age monk, required to follow some imposed moral code and destined to eternal poverty so they can nobly and humbly serve us fans. I bought starbound. I didn't donate to the Church of Chucklefish. This is a commercial transaction, not something I plan on itemizing for a deduction come tax time. Your version of "treat people right" ends up sounding a lot like "make other people sacrifice so I can get mine". Maybe that's harsh, but that's how it comes across to me.

 

You miss my point. You've just described a good Alpha. The purpose of Beta testing is to test THE FINISHED GAME for any bugs before final release. If any of the so-called fluff is missed out how is it going to be checked for errors? (errors in art, spelling mistakes etc. are still errors and are JUST the kind of thing that might be accidentally missed in the more code focused alpha. Also hard-to-find bugs will also be eked out as there are just more eyes on the job. The point of a Beta is it's a Beta TEST not just a first look. Anything missed out is more likely to be buggy producing a less polished final product.)

But the game is available for pre-order now so surely getting people to see the gameplay means they can make the decision to get the (cheaper) preorder because they have enough info to feel safe buying the game? So surely it makes sense to give the beta to the YouTubers first as the option to preorder may have changed when the wider beta is released? Then there'd be people moaning about THAT.

They treat people right and yet still get expletive deleted from people like you. Again I think you're wrong. It can take a long time for modders to get used to a new engine. They'd need time to familiarise themselves with the game and the SDK and start playing with code. If they get access to the game a few months earlier than everyone else then they can develop their mods earlier and get them out earlier. This is true whatever the build of the game. You can't learn to mod a game that hasn't released yet. The sooner the modders get the game the sooner the mods are released. Simple as that. I really think you're making a big thing about a few people getting an earlier version. Chances are this is for development purposes and won't be as polished a version as the general Beta or the finished product. I can't honestly see their being much more than a month's difference between that and the general Beta anyway. Also - how far do you want to take this? There's members of the Chucklefish team who have already got access to the game and can play it any time they like. Should we complain about that also? You say that indie companies are gamers like us. Sure, they are. They're also programmers and companies. That means there's some things that they have to do. Making sure that they release early to Modders and reviewers to generate extra buzz and to make sure that a thriving modding community is up and running even before the game release makes total sense from a company point of view it also makes sense from a programming point of view. Lets say there's something in the modding engine that needs changing. I'd want to know about that before the wider Beta testing stage, but how could I do that if I'm only letting my modders see it at the wider Beta testing stage? Hang on. I think I may have an idea....

I get tired of people moaning about stuff that they think they know about. I'm not saying I know that much. I'm saying it's painfully obvious that you don't. I'm glad I'm not a game developer, I'd not have the patience that Tiy has shown you.

 

Terms evolve. Early access beta has, for quite a while now, been something that is offered while features are still being added. This is nothing new. Tiy wants to take it the traditional road? Fine. I voiced my opinion of what i think would be a better option and why. Also keep in mind, you're digging up my post from over a month ago, a lot of information has come and gone since then... So i think the question is why are you taking it this far?

As far as people moaning that they missed the option to pre-order for less, that's just how it goes. They get the game all the same. Were people complaining because minecraft's prices were like 5 dollars to start then as it neared completion the price went up? It was a thank you for those who supported the game early. At each stage they were able to get the game all the same just not for the same price. And at no point did it ever reach something unreasonable. My point to the whole youtuber thing is if the video gets made and the game is available people will buy it. Why would it be better if the videos were made before the game was available? What benefit does that provide?

As far as the whole modder thing goes, i really do not understand your logic at all, i'm sorry. Mods are made for a game because people play the game, see things they feel should be in/would be fun, and begin making a mod to add it. What you are saying is see into the future at who would make a mod lots of people would like, give them an early copy of the game so this mod would be available on release? I mean with the youtube thing i at least see that some people review all games, and this being a game you can safely say it would be reviewed. But with this? I don't see what criteria you'd even begin to use to dictate who should get a copy earlier than everyone else. It's just not how mods are done. Now if the game were already released and about to undergo a massive change in the next patch, yes. Modders should be given access to that build once it's ready to be tweaked so the mods can be brought up to speed. But on release day of the game? That's not really how mods work..

 

I see your point on modders. Your idea about unreleased vs. massive patch is well taken, when you are giving modders early access to an unreleased game you might as well just make them developers.

 

It's about the traditional phases of game testing and release really. Something a lot of people who think that "Beta" means "Release to everyone like Google does to see what they think" is probably not aware of.

You'd have the alpha testing which goes on throughout and just after the main game development phase. When all the bugs that can be eked out by the small group of alpha testers, generally coders and other developers and maybe a few specialist testers you then go to closed beta.

Closed beta is generally by people who are good at analysis (like, for example, game reviewers and people who know a little bit about code, like, er, let's say, modders) and works out some of the harder to find bugs. Closed beta may overlap a little with Alpha as there's still a small possibility of major code rewrites at this phase and there may also be a little bit of 'fluff' (to borrow a phrase from, er, someone) to put in.

Finally we have Open Beta, the final stage before release. Open beta is basically a brute-force attack. If you've got a raw ton of people then a rare error or small flaw is more likely to be noticed before final release. Open Beta is the dress rehearsal and involves thousands of participants. It's where you make sure all the gels are on the stage lights properly, the gobos have the right silhouette and that the costumes are for the three Bears and not the Three little pigs. For this reason, like with a dress rehearsal, everything is present that will be present in the final release.

Now obviously in this case there are later additions and changes to be made (the novakid, the story quests - personally I'd have included the story quests as part of the Beta as well, but that's really Chucklefish's prerogative as to whether they do or don't) but that doesn't change the fact that the only difference between Beta and first release is that first release is absent the bugs that were spotted in the Beta.

 

Honestly, I don't see this being a deciding factor in time at all. Hell, that could be the planned release date for all we know.

 

This line right here, is so very refreshing to hear from a game developer now-a-days. So many games lately seem rushed out the door before they are polished out. Quite a few blatantly so. I have been quite pleased with the features that I have glimpsed at so far, enough so to pre-order, but that line above has put a little bit of faith back into me for the future of gaming. If only the "big fish" would take a hint from you folk

 

...why did you bump a month-old post of mine?

 

What a contribution.

I didn't realize I was necro'ing anything, I commented on something I saw. I don't go forum-delving.

EDIT: I'm actually pretty sure I was linked here from another forum. Something to the effect of "This has been discussed into the ground."

 

I liked this thread, lets get some more necromancers in here.

 

By the powers vested in me, I rise this thread from its solemn grave.

Be, thread. Be.

 

wise fwom u gwabe

dear babby starbound, may you never release, so we might continue to feud and bicker like twelve year olds.

 

YOU'RE THE ONE BICKERING YOU [removed by request of natural forces.]

 

I love the very idea of this game and with that in mind I won't be watching any lets plays, many may do so but I personally want to get that beautiful "first play" feeling that I get (and I'm sure many of you do too) when I first enter into the world of a game. Otherwise I hope this event nets more fans and establishes Starbound as a game of it's own, instead of a Terraria clone that many may see it as.

 

It appears we have a necromancer in our mist, Is he adept at conjuring long forgotten posts?

 

The stream will be uploaded on youtube?

 

Nah we paid for the beta, it comes after release though