So why do the floran hate the Hylotl?

Has anyone here had fish, say salmon or albacore?
Or lobster and shrimp?
With a touch of lemon and garlic?
Now imagine a man-sized fish.

Now you know why.

 

Wow Did good.
Protip- use F1 and it will hide ALL gui.

 

F1? Good to know.

 

This is actually false. Travellers are told they won't be harmed in a floran village to lull them into a false sense of security.

Seen in Greenfinger's notes on recieving guests.

 

It's a conditional offer of protection, it's true until you offend someone. So it's not a lie. Greenfinger's notes don't prove malicious intent to mislead or lie with the goal of harming, it seem to infact suggest the intent is genuine. The outsider by their rules created the problem.

I'd argue infact that Greenfinger's notes make it clear they have no intent to "lull them into a false sense of security.".

Intent is what matters, not result.

 

Greenfinger explicitly states that it is a lie, and it's not conditional.

You're right that it isn't designed to lull into a false sense of security, but that is the effect.

It is a lie to say you don't harm guests if at the slightest provocation you go back on your word.

Conditonal protection makes clear the conditons that break it. "respect our ways" or "obey our laws".

Intentions only count if it's possible for the person to succeed.

If I tell you I intend to remove your brain tumor, and I intend to keep you alive, but have no skill at brain surgery, me telling you I'll keep you safe doing brain surgery is a lie.

 

Conditional protection- has implied rules based on the culture. It's not a contract and they don't need to list off conditions or say anything else for it to be valid in their eyes, they aren't a race of lawyers. It's 100% on you to understand them in this case and not on them at all to understand you. It's their town after all.

Intentions- you are suggesting ill intent again. They believe you can succeed and that's all that is required for the offer not to be a lie on their part. Intent and what can and does happen are unrelated.

How do I get to the town on the far side of the mountain...? The town guard says just walk that path. Imagine if you will a tiny mountain path with 1000ft drops and on 2ft of walking space. If you fall off because you made a tiny misstep was the guard lying to you, did he intend you to fall? Nope and that misstep is those provocations, easy to fail but possible.

Your example has way too many steps where the person knows they are lying or are misleading the other person.

 

Your example is even worse, because it would require the guard to then push you off the path into the abyss if you went too slow, or too fast, or didn't sing the correct song.

Floran don't have enough self-control to say they won't attack the guest. If the guest offends them in any way, they simply attack. They might as well have not offered any protection.

Offended floran aren't forced to attack, they choose to.

They're basically saying "I won't harm you unless I feel like it."

 

You really don't understand my example or the point of the earlier posts.

Are you saying the Florans want you to offend them? You are talking about the guard pushing you off the cliff in the example. If so then you are arguing they are malicious and intend to mislead harm and kill you, which you earlier stated they didn't.

If you change my example to they push you off the cliff then the above statement you made is completely incorrect.

False equivalencies. They don't intend to harm you, they don't want to harm you but if offend them which they don't want you to do they will harm you. Stop assigning them human characteristic and judging their actions based off of a human cultural norm.

You know what I bet? That the Floran believe you choose to offend them. 1 dimensional thinking, all from how the visitor feels about the Floran and nothing about what the Floran is thinking or how they might feel about it.

If it never occurred to you that the Floran might think you are trying to offend them then you really aren't trying to understand this conversation at all.

 

Not true. It was a true law. It said no where it was a false sense of security.
Florans are Florans though, therefore it was hard for some Florans to follow given rules.

This doesn't mean it was made TO cause that false comfort. It is hard for Florans to be hospitable and tolerant of other races.
If you explain to me that it was for giving them false information, so they will be easier prey then I would be more than delighted to read it.
:EDIT:
I would like to mention that a lie defined by websters dictionary is

the word INTENTIONAL has a great effect on the definition. If I tell you I am going to give you 20 dollars, and I sincerely mean to. That is a truthful statement. Because even later if I cannot afford the transaction, it would not mean I lied, because that means from the start I decided to avoid giving you the money. In this instance the Florans were truthful when they made the law.
Florans are just so easy to anger that attacking travelers happens often.
This does not mean they are not sincere about their laws.
Another example is murder anywhere in the world is illegal. People still do it. Does that mean they might as well just drop the law because it wont do any good.
Is the law a complete lie?

 

Simply put, Greenfinger explicitly states that it is a lie, and I'm inclined to believe him.

Floran don't have any concept of honor. Right and wrong are the same as winning and losing.

Combine that with a generally anti-intellectual society (though that doesn't mean unintelligent, vicious cunning is very much selected for via constant combat) and floran offer of protection isn't worth the air it takes.

It's a lie the same way it's a lie when a smoker says that THIS time is when they'll quit. It's holding themselves to an unrealistic expectation. They could intend to not kill, but only if it's easy and convienient. If killing gains them something they want, or if there is the slightest justification, then it's stabbin' time.

Your analogy about a law is unfounded. Laws are upheld by the threat of punishment. Floran hospitality is merely a custom/tradition.

No, but given that everything offends them (including being a hylotl) they reserve the right to be offended and kill you at all times.

[quote="Locklave, post: 1665813, member: 247484"False equivalencies. They don't intend to harm you, they don't want to harm you but if offend them which they don't want you to do they will harm you. Stop assigning them human characteristic and judging their actions based off of a human cultural norm.


You know what I bet? That the Floran believe you choose to offend them. 1 dimensional thinking, all from how the visitor feels about the Floran and nothing about what the Floran is thinking or how they might feel about it.

If it never occurred to you that the Floran might think you are trying to offend them then you really aren't trying to understand this conversation at all.[/quote]

You are assuming floran even care about what their guests intend. To a floran, a non-floran guest is a potential meal, and probably weaker in a fight.

Most likely, the floran is only not killing you on sight because they aren't hungry and aren't full of bloodlust. If either of those change you're going to be attacked.

Other floran won't care.

 

Your entire argument assumes they don't care about anything, that they have no rules, that they willfully lie and that they are basically all savages.

If that were true they'd attack you on sight and skip formalities. If they didn't care they wouldn't make the effort. Which supports the fact that they are far more complex then you give them credit for.

In this conversation you've made no effort to see it from the Floran perspective and flat out assumed they are malicious and evil. Every argument you made assumes malicious intent as if any other possible thinking is impossible. If you make a response that isn't based entirely off of that single assumption I might care to respond, but that's unlikely given literally every post has that standing theme.

 

Sushi.


If my current internet connection was better, I would've just posted a picture of some delicious-looking sashimi. Oh well.

 

That would be cruel since I can't eat it.

 

Oh, I'm sorry, I'm not really a cruel person

Anyway, I haven't played as a Floran but I think you could make excellent sushi out of Hylotl.

 

I wonder if the Hylotl being arrogant and overbearing makes there meats taste better lol.

 

So by your logic you could just waltz into a Floran village and massacre everyone and the guards wont attack you? All tribes and villages have some sort of government, if it weren't true then they wouldn't exist. It would be a total anarchy.
Also when a smoker claims they will quit and they are sincere it isn't a lie. Unless they purposely tell you to mislead you. You would understand this if you read the definition of a lie in my last post.
Greenfinger states that it is a lie because they are not capable of going by such high standards. Not because it was a "False sense of security.
Quoting once again

Their intentions were GOOD, they don't mean to mislead their travelers purposely.
If you believe that if people will still break a law, they should just botch the whole concept. Then by it's logic there would be no laws at all.
Because laws are meant to have consequences if the law is broken.
I have also been studying Floran villager responses. Some seem to be aggressive some seem to be quite friendly.
For example playing as a Glitch results in villagers saying "Will be sad when robot go" "Floran loves robo"
As a human "Floran want human best friend" "Floran think human brave for coming here" "Green finger says be nice to pitiful species" "Floran stab you if you misbehave"
This suggests some are aggressive and some are VERY friendly for their species. They only seem to be constantly disliking of Hylotl.
After this post I am tired of debating with someone, not likely to be reasoned with. I have not seen one change of thought through your whole stay on the thread. Therefore it's a waste of time. Have a good day.

 

Why has this thread turned into a huge pile of racist--really speciesist--bigotry?

 

There is, but a lot of us do realize that the Florans and Hylotls, by nature, are practically polar opposites. That alone makes some of it pretty easy to figure out.

To make dorky D&D comparisons, Hylotl are essentially paladins. Florans are Blackguards.

 

How about Florans being Orcs/Goblins while Hylotl are Elves?