Modding Discussion Avali 1.0 Reboot Discussion

Discussion in 'Starbound Modding' started by RyuujinZERO, Aug 11, 2016.

  1. Scival

    Scival Master Astronaut

    The avali wiki being a biased in-universe document would be a cool concept once it's been rewritten to not be in third person, but as it is right now it smells of humans writing it. Maybe it should be more like "we, the avali" rather than "the avali, those other strange xeno aliens which ressemble old Earth avians".
    Sock of Retribution likes this.
  2. notanaccount2

    notanaccount2 Aquatic Astronaut

    Its almost sort of vaporware by this point.
    The official mod that is, not the triage.
    Sock of Retribution likes this.
  3. YellowDemonHurlr

    YellowDemonHurlr Phantasmal Quasar

    Oh, any number of reasons. I already suggested it as a way to manipulate the disparate avali states into unifying. It could also be a conspiracy theory that sort of latched on, or an ancient myth that persists to this day. Maybe the Illuminate came up with it, or one of the nation states that later became the Illuminate, or it might be even older. All I know is that it's a much smaller leap of logic than trying to saying that there were malefactors and not a single identifiable record, artifact, or meme survived to the present day. It's kind of like believing in dragons.

    As for the technology, the current history page pushes malefactor occupation thousands of years into the past. I should have looked for an update before.

    But again, I don't think this is the author's intent. It just makes more sense than the canon lore.
    Sock of Retribution likes this.
  4. DraikNova

    DraikNova Phantasmal Quasar

    It's almost sort of Half Life 3.
  5. Firebird Zoom

    Firebird Zoom Space Kumquat

    Hopefully it never gets to that point.
    Sock of Retribution likes this.
  6. TR-219

    TR-219 Space Penguin Leader

    At this point, it looks like it's getting there...

    There is a reason I avoid Warframe... I played one of it's earlier iterations, (Excalibur prime... something you cannot acquire, and I have it from supporting it way back when that was still possible) The game has changed, improved, but the grind? Not at all different from what I saw back then. I don't play it these days... How people get into a game where grinding is necessary, I will never understand.

    ... on a side note, maybe he has forgotten about this... about those who still wait for Ryuu's return, and the completion of the Avali reboot?
    Sock of Retribution likes this.
  7. Sock of Retribution

    Sock of Retribution Industrial Terraformer

    I heavily doubt that. All his public avatars are still his original avali; kinda hard to forget the community with a constant reminder like that. It's also something he's put a lot of time into clearly.

    I think he's just being really lazy. But I dunno. Again, I'd like to try to take better steps to come into contact with him: if all else fails, we may have to start developing without him and take the lore into our own hands.

    Failed to answer my question of how avali developed past simple nomadic culture if they didn't have resources. That seems like the biggest logic leap to me. Yes, I made a typo, but my point should still have gotten across.

    The wiki does contradict itself in multiple places, unfortunately. I suppose it might not be the best place to go for info anymore, which is a shame.
  8. YellowDemonHurlr

    YellowDemonHurlr Phantasmal Quasar

    Which resources do you mean? There is probably metal/oil/etc. present on Avalon at least in small amounts. However, you do have a point that it's hard to see a species like the avali developing a technological civilization on their own. They're predators, so less inclined to discover farming; they're at sub-zero temperatures, so metals will be difficult to work with, etc.

    So basically, none of these possible histories make sense.
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  9. Sock of Retribution

    Sock of Retribution Industrial Terraformer

    There is one, actually: the malefactors came, they were not human and therefore not inherently clumsy enough to leave behind records, and word has only passed between the avali via mouth of their appearance, all the way back to those avali who were witnesses. Therefore, it has become inconsistent and inaccurate over the centuries and as a result has been blamed on the race which most resembles the current depiction of the malefactors in the people's minds, for lack of any proper evidence. That race happens to be humans, and they are subsequently burdened with a minor racial grudge, as the wiki states.

    The remarks avali NPC's make towards human PC's are nowhere near confirmed to be canon, and are in fact likely non-canon due to the fact that even the original avali mod (and especially Triage) is not entirely true to lore.
  10. YellowDemonHurlr

    YellowDemonHurlr Phantasmal Quasar

    But leaving no trace would be at best extremely difficult and more likely impossible, especially since the avali certainly stole their technology and used it against them (otherwise how could a tribal society drive off a starfaring race?). There must be some artifacts or mementos that can be identified as human or definitely not human. All it would take is a tiny component with a couple letters printed on it, which almost all manufactured parts have.
    Sock of Retribution likes this.
  11. Sock of Retribution

    Sock of Retribution Industrial Terraformer

    Exactly, and this is why the racial grudge against humans is minor: it's unfounded, and if you dig deep enough there's actually evidence against it. Said evidence is likely held privately, however.
  12. Scival

    Scival Master Astronaut

    Something like a manufacturing number would prove it instantly, because while there can be any number of humanoid, human-like races, something like the alphabet and arabic numerals are quite unique to Earth.
    And printing manufacturing numbers is a pretty specifically human thing to do. Something neither the avali nor their malefactors have been known to do.

    Yes, I know playing the "Well, that's a characteristically human thing to do" card is a bit of a silly thing to do since we know any real alien races we would ever encounter in the real world is obviously going to be stranger than fiction, but...
  13. YellowDemonHurlr

    YellowDemonHurlr Phantasmal Quasar

    Well labeling parts is such a useful and utilitarian thing to do that any creature that manufactures things is probably going to do it. The alternative is wondering whether your machine needs part A or the nearly but not quite identical part B.

    And conversely, if the parts bear markings not found in any human language, it suggests human innocence even if it's not a language anyone knows.

    But why would all such evidence be withheld? Surely at least one avali would want to know the origin of the heirloom that their ancestors supposedly won from the malefactors, not to mention human (and avali) archeologists would be sifting through the old battlefields if they were allowed on Avalon and perusing the avali grey market if they weren't. The odds of something turning up that either confirms or denies human involvement are so staggeringly high that I really don't see any way it can remain a mystery without the whole thing either being a myth, or active suppression by some power (probably the Illuminate, since they control access to the artifacts).

    Then again...
    Maybe the idea that the Illuminate is suppressing information about the malefactors isn't so far fetched after all.

    Also, it's hard for me to discount the in-game dialogue as non-canon. It's older than Triage, so it has to have been written by Ryuujin himself.
  14. TR-219

    TR-219 Space Penguin Leader

    Aviation grade rivets, bolts, screws... they don't have identifying letters or numbers, not typically at any rate. The most rivets get is dots on the head, some bolts get a symbol not from any language, to identify their use in high temperature areas, for example... nothing easily identifiable, and it is generally only known by people who need to know about it.

    Rifles, on the other hand, have a number designation, along with the firing mechanism. (the bolt of a bolt action rifle, along with a marking near the receiver, as I am familiar with them)
    The firing mechanism is paired with the rifle, and they are to stay with each other. Both usually have identical identifying numbers, to make sure they stay paired... which can be removed, or otherwise destroyed. Who by? Anyone with a blowtorch, or hot enough fire, could do it. And the rifle could probably still be used afterwards. Let alone when the markings are simply screwed on... I think you are on to something here.
    Last edited: May 11, 2017
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  15. DraikNova

    DraikNova Phantasmal Quasar

    I don't know, it's kinda easy to stop looking at your avatar once you've had it for a while.
  16. Sock of Retribution

    Sock of Retribution Industrial Terraformer

    Just because Ryuu created it doesn't mean it's canon. On the wiki there's lots of art that was intended only as little doodles or jokes (he has said this himself), but just because it's made by Ryuu people accepted it as canon practically against his will.

    There are numerous assets in the original avali mod which do not match with canon, either by logical process or Ryuujin's own word. The avali PC's ship and many of the feather colors for both genders come to mind first. The NPC dialogue could very well be another one of those inconsistencies.
  17. YellowDemonHurlr

    YellowDemonHurlr Phantasmal Quasar

    The feathers were a technical shortcoming, but since when was the ship not canon? It used to be on the wiki as a general-purpose dropship (the original, not the fancy one Triage added).
  18. Sock of Retribution

    Sock of Retribution Industrial Terraformer

    Judging from one of the images on the original post, that actually was the original ship and not added by Triage. Its design is rather obviously non-canon.

    There are some colors (specifically primary plumage colors) which he heavily implied neither males nor females would have, so not a technical limitation. I'm too lazy to find the exact post where he said it, though.

    EDIT: So I did find the in-game ship labelled as prototype dropship art on the wiki, so it probably actually is canon: my mistake. It's just that it does look a fair bit different in layout than the other ship concept art he's done, and the way it upgrades is not what I would call canon.

    I'm pretty sure the canon has changed a bit when it comes to technology: the newer frigate art looks quite different from the old art of exploration ships and dropships and what not. It could just be ship class difference, but the overall external and even cockpit aesthetic seems altered as well.
    Last edited: May 11, 2017
  19. Scival

    Scival Master Astronaut

    That trashy upgrade was added as part of triage, silly. Remember ships didn't upgrade when the original mod was made.
    Or you could look at it with your fancy neural augment and have a systematically orange holographic indicator of which is which.
    Y'know. That technology they got from their malefactors.

    Seriously though, how much time did the Illuminate / processing power did the Oracle AI use to make sure every display was orange by default? That's some high-level commitment right there.
  20. Sock of Retribution

    Sock of Retribution Industrial Terraformer

    I was not actually aware ship upgrades didn't exist in beta: I never played it myself.

    Nobody confirmed the malefactors had that sort of tech. The avali could very well have developed it on their own, using tech they did get from the malefactors.

    Damn, it's so hard to discuss this stuff without confirmation from Ryuu. We're getting so few likes too cuz this thread is deserted when he's not around, a-and we'll have to restate all these questions if he comes back and~ ;-; *avali kit starts to break down*

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