Modding Discussion Avali 1.0 Reboot Discussion

Discussion in 'Starbound Modding' started by RyuujinZERO, Aug 11, 2016.

  1. Sock of Retribution

    Sock of Retribution Industrial Terraformer

    We must keep in mind, Yellow, that the avali race's feelings for humanity are not as negative in canon as is portrayed in your machinima. The wiki states that it is nothing more than a low-intensity racial grudge. The Illuminate government, judging by its modern and perhaps even fairly progressive doctrine, would be unlikely at best to make decisions based off of such a grudge.

    I suppose the ADF alone could be a different story, but even that doesn't have much backing as they have not recently experienced any mentionable conflict with humans or even any other races. These days they're likely just targeting rogues, pirates, and the like.
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  2. Sock of Retribution

    Sock of Retribution Industrial Terraformer

    This has very much potential and needs to be taken advantage of, for sure. Though would it be possible to customize packmates generated in this way within the engine?

    Also double post I guess
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  3. YellowDemonHurlr

    YellowDemonHurlr Phantasmal Quasar

    The wiki is actually unreliable on such things because it's supposed to be (mostly) an in-universe document. It's ostensibly written by the Illuminate, and of course they won't publicly admit it if they'd prefer all humans to burn forever. What I do observe is the level of hostility exhibited by NPCs in-game towards human players, which while not overtly violent goes well beyond the level of a low-intensity grudge. Maybe not enough to want us dead, but they clearly don't want anything to do with us (with a few exceptions).
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  4. DraikNova

    DraikNova Phantasmal Quasar

    So, what do you guys think the limits on physical variance between Avali are? I imagine on one end of the scale you get almost microraptor-esque Avali that stand only 2 feet tall and are 4 feet long, and on the other end of the scale you have super-bulky, Utahraptor-esque (speaking of, a new skeletal of that has been released: Avali that are 4 feet tall and 10 feet long.
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  5. YellowDemonHurlr

    YellowDemonHurlr Phantasmal Quasar

    My rule of thumb is that normal variance is about a head (so normal tall avali are about a head taller than average, normal short avali are about a head shorter). Occasionally you might get really extreme differences in size, like an avali version of a dwarf or Andre the giant. In ages past these came with severe health issues, but the modern Illuminate has sufficiently advanced medical tech that it shouldn't be too much of a problem. So you may very rarely meet an avali who can actually look you in the eye.
  6. Sock of Retribution

    Sock of Retribution Industrial Terraformer

    Welp, my OC might find that a bit of a shoehorning; he's 4'0" currently, will probably topout at 4'2" due to being only 16, and all the while he is an unmistakable femboy if you get to know him well enough, as well as not being particularly bulky. Jiro just has a way of completely breaking norms.
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  7. Roland Weiss

    Roland Weiss Cosmos Killer

    There's one way to explain that kind of stature; he grew up in a lower gravity environment than normal.
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  8. Sock of Retribution

    Sock of Retribution Industrial Terraformer

    I suppose you could be correct, but I have reason to believe that such a document would not try to pass off the avali populace or government as more tolerant than they really are: that would cause nothing but trouble, as far as I can see. Furthermore, the Avali Wiki is not consistently adherent to the whole "Illuminate document", so it could just be pure lore and therefore unquestionable, but too confusing to rightly say.

    As for NPC remarks, when was the last time you heard remarks like that? I've never come across avali as a human, mostly because I've never played as a human in Starbound before because I'm too busy being an avali myself. I think such remarks would just indicative of their environment: a more conservative upbringing, or human rogues/pirates which seem to be quite common in the Starbound universe. You can't just assume it's a race-wide attitude, you have to take into account the factors. If I seem triggered or anything, it's probably because I know that isn't the case thanks to my OC: he's of a very opposite mentality towards humans.

    Well at least this was said. I shall now place Jiroku snugly between these parentheses. He probably won't think them as comfy as his favorite blanky though. Jeez what a weirdo, 16 years old and still clinging to one of those; I wonder where that character trait comes from.

    Why did I expose myself? Come to think of it, where am I going with this?
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  9. Sock of Retribution

    Sock of Retribution Industrial Terraformer

    Nope, he grew up on Avalon. :/
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  10. Sock of Retribution

    Sock of Retribution Industrial Terraformer

    Just keep in mind that avali do not share the same bodily proportions as Terran dromaeosaurs: due to having more humanoid form and posture, their dimensions are somewhere between the aforementioned taxonomic group and our own. You can check the wiki for meter-based proportions closer to lore, but I do remember the tails still being quite long so you're not far off in that department.

    Let's not kid ourselves here: nobody really draws the avali to have their full canon tail length or sometimes even their properties, and the albeit non-canon in-game sprite also notably shortens it down.

    *SMITE announcer* TRIPLE POST!
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  11. Roland Weiss

    Roland Weiss Cosmos Killer

    So he's just a beanpole, then.
    And you've won an express ticket to gulag! Do not pass go, do not collect 200 rubles.
  12. Sock of Retribution

    Sock of Retribution Industrial Terraformer

    I should say he is heavier than your average avali as a result (I'm guessing 80 pounds), and he does have more muscle and fat, but this is purely due to his size: in other words, it's the same amount if you take proportion into account. He actually used to be lighter, but his colleagues were worried about his lankiness and inadvertently fattened him up by a few pounds, so now he thinks he's chubby. Jiro tends to be quite self-conscious, perhaps overly so.
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  13. YellowDemonHurlr

    YellowDemonHurlr Phantasmal Quasar

    While I should point out that an OC isn't really suitable evidence of avali canon, I did not mean to imply that all avali dislike humans, only that it's the most widespread attitude, and likely even the official attitude of the Illuminate. Some individuals and even sub-cultures will, of course, vary.

    Here is the list of all the dialogue options avali NPCs can use to speak to human players:
    "Hello... oh, a human."
    "I thought something smelled bad."
    "I understand, it wasn't your fault. But some of my kin might not be so understanding."
    "You have Impervium gonads coming here, human."
    "So, are you still into bombarding fledgling races on first contact?"
    "How's that whole civil war working out, oh right, tentacle beast stopped it."
    "What's the weather like on Earth lately, violent with a chance of tentacles?"
    "Now where'd I put my tiny violin..." (As far as I can tell, this is a response to the destruction of Earth)

    These from the version I used to make my machinima (since I have that one unpacked), and I don't think and new lines have been added since then. As you can see, while one option is friendly and one is almost neutral, nearly everything avali NPCs say to you as a human indicates that they really, really don't like you. Those last three in particular indicate a level of dislike that goes beyond a mere "low-level grudge," it's like someone going up to a New Yorker and mocking them over 9/11. You have to be really, really callous not to sympathize at least a little with people who have just suffered a disaster of that level.
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  14. notanaccount2

    notanaccount2 Aquatic Astronaut

    That does make me wonder how much variety Avali genetics has room for, as some fictions (such as warhammer 40K for one example) use the explanation of that people have been on certain planets for so many generations that epigenetics has affected them to the point of producing a wide variety of unusual mutations.
    I just love the idea that there is some form of avali out there that has grown to be especially fluffy due to the environment of the planet they're on, but I'm not sure how their nomadic disposition would affect that sort of thing.
  15. Roland Weiss

    Roland Weiss Cosmos Killer

    In the case of low vs. high gravity, it wouldn't be a case for 'mutation' in the genetic sense. Astronauts actually gain height while under the effects of zero-g, only returning to their normal height after returning to Earth. On the other side, jet pilots who have to eject from aircraft have been noted to lose height due to the extremely high-gs that they experience during the ejection. Growing up in a 'non-standard' gravity can potentially influence how your body develops; those living on low gravity worlds will have taller statures and lower bone and muscle densities, while living on high gravity worlds will have the opposite effect.
  16. TheOnlyRen

    TheOnlyRen Subatomic Cosmonaut

    I hinted at a pack in the Protectorate intro because it would seem weird for a sole Avali to join the Protectorate. Of course, since the Triage mod doesn't add other Avali to the intro sequence, the idea I had was to make it so, as a practical graduation-day joke, your pack disabled your alarm and ran off ahead of you to graduation, and didn't make it (barring multiplayer friends who also make Avali) once the Ruin attacks. End result, sole survivor Avali PC.

    As for the "whiplash" bit. A single person is often better than people as a whole. It's a general psychology thing as far as racism goes to believe that "X race are all idiots until proven otherwise". You of all people should know this, Yellow, considering how Rhaomi warms up to you in your series. The PC Avali likes the Grand Protector because the Grand Protector was cool, as far as humans go. While at the same time they wouldn't give a shit about some dead guy's ashes because they didn't know the guy.

    EDIT: I'm not going to address why or how an Avali would wind up in the Protectorate to begin with because I really can't. The game just kind of thrusts it on you by default unless you skip the intro entirely. I would say it's certainly feasible for an Avali pack to wind up in the Protectorate one way or another, but I can't say how. Regardless, it has to happen because the Matter Manipulator, you know, that thing you need to more or less play Starbound, is explicitly a Protectorate tool. Non-protectorate just don't have it. And if a non-protectorate person does, I would imagine the repercussions of it would be drastic. The Matter Manipulator is a powerful tool, there's a reason you have to attend an academy to be able to even get one.
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
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  17. Scival

    Scival Master Astronaut

    Except, of course, the Protectorate is then dead after that event. Just about anyone could acquire one from whatever factory they're built in.
  18. IFailAtGaming

    IFailAtGaming Title Not Found

    except there's a pretty good chance that factory is on earth, and as such is currently on... tentacles. just doesn't have the same ring as "on fire"
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  19. YellowDemonHurlr

    YellowDemonHurlr Phantasmal Quasar

    Yeah, I caught that bit, I'm just surprised that they're never mentioned again. You'd expect that when disaster hits, an avali's first thought would be for his/her pack.

    Well, Rhaomi doesn't really exhibit the pattern you describe. Once Yellow proves himself to not be an evil monster, Rhaomi reevaluated his opinion of humanity as a whole. His whole speech to Kaala at the end is him sticking up for humanity, not just Yellow. He doesn't necessarily like all humans, especially the USCM, but he wouldn't revel in their destruction.

    And in the case of the avali player character, he/she has been bunking with humans for years (just look at all the human memorabilia in the bunk area: lava lamps, rock guitars, hula figurines, etc). They've got to be used to humans by now. Plus you need a certain level of regard for sapient life in general to seek/accept nomination into the ranks of the Protectorate.
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  20. hypergen8

    hypergen8 Big Damn Hero

    Or there could be an avali mining tool that does the same thing as the Matter Manipulator, they DO have powerful, if not higher tech then the humans.

    Just saying that we can give them the tool without the oddness of figuring out the "Avali in the human protectorate" thing, it might be more lore efficient. Anyway i never liked the matter manipulator with avali characters, it never matched the color scheme of any of the avali stuff witch made it feel out of place to me, an avali themed one would be sweet.
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
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