An infinite universe isn't helping Starbound

I wasn't saying it was perfect before I was saying that you had more variety which regards to what planet environments you have available at any given difficulty. I have no problem with being limited by the fact that I would not be able to survive the environment I find that to be a very neat concept. I do, however, have a problem with the fact that once I have advanced through the tiers the planets that provide content that are at the same difficulty is very limited. So if I've got equipment that are on tier with the ice planets and I want to go explore, rather than grind for better equipment, I have to go to ice planets if I want challenges and rewards that are at the appropriate to the tier I'm at. So if someone wanted to explore planets with other environments they wouldn't gain anything useful nor would doing so be any fun because it lacks any sort of challenge. That is what I mean when I say it was better before giraffe.

If you read the posts in this thread no where has anyone even hinted that the above is desired. Before you post read everything don't skim and guess, because you couldn't be more wrong.

You sir are a sarcastic ass and have added nothing to this conversation by insulting everyone.

 

I think that is something we can all agree with. Mixed or simple difficulty higher rated planets of all kind, would make more fun.

 

Devs said some time ago there would be a final tier in the game that would include all planets, similar to Sector-X or whatever, back when planets had levels. Really wish I could find that comment because a lot of people don't know it and (rightfully) complain about the above. I sure hope I'm not remembering wrong.

 

Could be... ^^

I think that would be a other classic 16 bit thing ---> Play again on higher difficulty

Well and if the new frozen Biome was designed for higher tiers, that may be a clue.

Also snow/frost planets are on 2 (with the new one maybe 3) diffrent tiers. 3 5 (7)

 

Yeah but I think having to grind to the final tier to be able to explore different planets is silly. I don't want to have to wait till I have the best of the best equipment to have a variety of places to go. The whole thing is very anti-exploration. It is a very simple fix you keep the stars tiered like they are, but not restrict what planets can appear on the higher tiers however the higher tier ores will stay on planets as they are now so while you will find forest planets with high tier monsters you won't find the higher tier ores on them.

This would work well if they, with the re-implementation of hunger, heat and cold, make it so any protection that you have only extends the time that you can spend on planets with extreme heat/cold, radiation or no breathable air (here by extreme environments). Adding furniture type items that heat/cool, remove radiation, and supply breathable air to an enclosed space (a base you build on the planet) would make for a challenging, and therefore fun, hardcore survival experience. This would make building planetside bases a necessity rather than if you feel like building one. That encourages creativity and blah blah blah who wouldn't find that awesome and gain something from it.

I want to have a real challenge to advance through the game, as it stands now the game is easier than ever and you spend more time mining than you do for anything else especially if you've done it all before.

 

They would need to change up ore distribution if they were to put all planets at all "going forward" tiers, among other things. Because why bother going to a Volcanic world with environmental hazards like a hard outer crust and lava and meteorites when you can go to a same-tier Desert or Snow world without the hazards and get basically the same ore rewards and whatnot more easily by digging through the softness? That was a fatal flaw in the Koala universe. I never bothered with high-end Volcanics and whatnot unless I was looking for a Rust Biome.

Which then begs the question of why you'd want to explore a higher-tier Desert world if the rewards aren't up to the tier standard.

Which further begs the question of why even bother having those before "endgame" at all.

Which points to the idea being a superficial veneer of "variety" that actually has a negative impact on the game.

These decisions don't exist in a vacuum...

 

Thats paradox: If you could see the whole setup of planets and build where you like it, why you should need to craft higher tier stuff? Answer: Just for fun or because you want it... but this is a little... frustraiting because you do it for nothing.

I see the higher tier planets as part of reward for crafting and questing too.

I absolutly agree ^^

But only one thing: I dont know exactly how it was in koala, but if the devs just give volcanic worlds (and so on) a higher "chance" that there is a spefic tier ore compare to deserts for example woudn´t it be more profitable to mine there instead in the dessert? I mean: if i had the choice to mine 2 hours on planet A and get 300 ore of something or if i mine 1 hour on Planet B and get 300 also.... i would mine on planet B. (just an example)

On one side yes it would be more fun (for some people,including me),

but on the other hand there are a few problems:

- you do more mining in the middle of the game, because you need to build this furnitures
- you force the people to build bases that they never have to use again, because they want only mine quick a few ores.
- Well you could build them simple with dirt or wood but anyway: you have a lot of "shitty" buildings on maybe otherwise nice planets. I think that looks not so cool. (yes i´m a fan of a clean universe xD)
- it isnt really "freedom" if you must build for almost every planet (after T3) special places where you can hide and regenerate.
- I think you make this one time maybe twice but then it would be annoying.

I think Poison-Ocean- and Lava-Planets are very good example for optional hardcore planets.

- you have no protection against lava or poisen ---> which is absolut deathly if you make a wrong move.
- they are really optional (well all T6 planets are optional now... you need nothing from them... But i think that will change again)
- you can be very proud if you survive the envoirment AND build something great ^^

 

one could change the configs so no planet required special equipment. maybe when they are dfinished suggesting that as a creative mode or something to devs or modders would lift limitations. making it non linear in that aspect. but its still a sandbox. gta 3 4 san an and 5 you had to play the story to unlock the map. well. unless u wanted an endless rush of cops indefinitely. but i never heard an argumant that gta wasnt a sandbox because of this.
i do like that tho. i may make a mod for no restrictions or requirements on planets. and maybe add a small log to leave a description for planets.? that would make locating planets for specific resources easier. idk. im rambling...

 

A few notes:

Firstly, it's space. I love that I can just keep going and going. I may see the same structures and dungeons, but the overall layouts of the planets are different. I have not seen the same planet twice. I do understand at somepoint that I will hit repition, but I haven't yet, and honestly, I highly doubt I'll notice if a cliff's height was the same as one of the planets I ran back when I was rockin' copper armor. I'd hate for the game to go gold, me to start a character, then a week later, I hit the edge of space (huehuehue). One of my biggest draw backs from Terraria was the one planet deal. For me, once I hit that point where the minimap was looping, I was bored with the game. As mentioned, it being this huge really does make a difference in multiplayer, as well.

Secondly, I think adding more variations to the dungeons would help. Not the microdungeons, but the actual dungeons, I feel, need to be expanded upon and more varied. I think this would add greatly to different settings. My hopes (though, I doubt they'll get there), is that the dungeons become like planets - they use the same pieces, but are each built differently. Some can be ruins, some can be fully functional. I also think they should put Challenge Rooms on the surface of planets, so those quick runs around the surface to collect the loot is a little more varied, as well.

And lastly, about the other races being space faring: there is supposed to be ship battles at some point. Maybe not supposed to be, but from what I've read recently, it's one thing they'd really like to implement. I do not know if/how/when they will implement it, but from what I've read, they'd like you to stumble across other space ships, board them, and loot them.

 

Actually, they're already modular and change from instance to instance. It's just that, like virtually everything in the EK build, it was an early, first-draft version with a small "pool" of variables, so they come across more samey.

And apparently revamping the dungeons is in the works already. The "sci-fi dungeons" where you get Matter Blocks are gone, I gather, with the devs reporting that they'll be back in a new form, brought up to current SB standards (and likely fitting the new lore better, since the prior one was super-hodgepodge). It'll be intersting to see what other new dungeons pop up, and what changes get made.

Now that I would like to see. I'd like to run across a USCM prison that hasn't been taken over by the inmates. I'd like to see an Apex lab where the test subjects got loose. A Glitch Castle long abandoned, and... is that a g-g-g-ghost?!

 

yip... i saw two floran hells yesterday, that are not exactly the same. Many Apex labs seems to be diffrent in detail and so on. There is a little variation in the dungeons. But "more and "greater diffrences would be fun, including the npcs.

 

Instead of making the universe finite, I'd much prefer if the infinity of it would gain some relevance. Having random quests (which are planned) might help.

A while ago, I proposed to mix up the various elements that make a planet more or less dangerous. This would also lead to more interesting exploration:
http://community.playstarbound.com/index.php?threads/93218/

I agree, though, that right now, you have everything you need in the 12 planets right around the starter planet (except maybe loot, but that's a very small incentive).
I hope they enlarge that aspect, I'm sure there are very many things that would make exploring an infinite universe more fun.

Rare monsters. Rare combinations of planetary traits. Factions and trade routes. Areas of the universe that differ in ore distribution. And surely lots more...

 

I truly enjoy the boundlessness of the infinite universe, even if it means i won't feasibly explore it all. I think what would help its case is if there were descriptions (not on the nose, mind you) of unique structures on the planet. Or maybe the planetary scan feature could be upgradeable to provide more detail, for those of us looking for something.

This may be a little more harder to do, but a political map of the races' held territory can be a good way to show the regional powers in the area.(if there are any), other than that, places with varying intensity of occupation would be welcome(from idle villages to "racial city biome" planets.)

 

While they wouldn't have the higher tier ores everything else would be on tier monsters, chest loot, and random weapon drops. When they implement other ways of advancing through the tiers other than grinding for ore they would be more enjoyable to explore as I have noticed the higher tier planets seem to have less random stuff than the lower tiers(particularly a lack of towns). As for the ores you really only need to visit one planet to find everything you need to make the next tiers. The basic idea behind this is to promote the whole multiple paths to advance through the tiers. I find that, at least currently, the higher tier planets are generally more boring than the lower tiers. If I don't want to advance by mining I would want more variety with the places I can explore to advance. Mining of course would be the fastest but it wouldn't be as much fun as say taking lots of missions to earn money and purchase the equipment. Also when hunger, heat, and cold is added back you would have more dramatic increase in the risk and reward; The planets that are more dangerous would have rewards that other wouldn't (aka higher tier ores, bigger mission rewards, etc). I do agree that currently it would negatively impact the game in a minor way, but the future features would make variety more desirable. You have to remember that the game isn't complete and not everything is implemented many things can seem like a bad idea now, but in the future turn out to be really good. I generally think about what changes that listed features that will be added would have on the game when I pitch ideas so they don't always sound good at first.

 

My main complaint isn't the size of the universe, it's the dumming-down and stripping back of Starbound's random generation and the removal of perfectly fine content. What good is an infinite universe if there's no reason to explore any more than 10 planets before you've seen everything?

Weather types, sub-biomes, Trees, Monsters, block colour, surface structures - they're no longer random and surprising. Each planet is just a clone from the next aside from a few alterations in terrain height.
They removed Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta sectors and simply renamed them "Gentle Star", "Escentric Star", "Fiery Star" but instead, locked specific planets into each one.
Why can't I go to a Fiery star and find a dangerous Forest Planet for example?

They have used the stick rather than the carrot here. Instead of incentivizing exploration by making each planet and system random and different from the next, they have forced the player to travel to specific planets by gating off ore and other resources and pretty much placing massive arrows on each planet type that says "GO HERE FOR THIS STUFF."
Further issues arose when they simultaneously injected the Ship Upgrades into the game. Now I have even less need to visit planets beyond scraping the surface for enough ore to craft the next armor set.

The colonization update was a good idea, yet they've made it pretty linear as well. The NPC's you get are based on the blocks and furniture you use which hinders creative freedom.
Like to use a particular glitch block and furniture? Well, better get used to having Glitch tenants.

I dunno... I'm still playing Starbound but my Wife and I are kind of politely smiling through winced expressions while we say "This game is still exciting" and "I'm sure they'll fix it".
For us, 90% of our gripes could be solved by handing the controls back over to the RNG. Give us random Star Systems, give us random sub-biomes, give us back the random dirt and grass colours, give us back the wide variety of trees, give us back the random difficulty rating.

Oh, and it'd be great if adding content didn't require the removal of other content. I'm looking at you Sandstone Brick recipe....

 

Actually, no, the NPCs are actually not affected by the block type. Solely by furniture.

 

Even so, if the result is the same based on your furniture, there is no element of surprise or just plain old luck. When its so fixed like this, I just see beyond any immersion and adventure and I just see code.
That, I guess, is the point I was trying to make. Everything in Starbound feels predetermined, predictable and scripted. It never used to and I think that's what gets at me.

Anyway, I digress. Starbound's made some very positive changes in the latest build (such as selling items and 3D printing costs etc) but it all seems over-shadowed by how small and stripped-back it now feels.

 

Does this include merchants? I was wondering if their merchandise can be improved.

 

I agree with Vantus. Same biom planets became repeatedly predictable. Same weather - all forest planets have possibility of snow, which does not disappear even after the rain. Why? Block colour and trees - starting planet (lush) all the same - ugly fir always? Problem is that I like to find esthetically suitable forest planet to make my home. When It was random - I liked to explore for such combination, now it may not even exist..
Sorry for bad English. Lack of practice.

 

Probably not, without modding them to have better inventory.