1. If you're looking for help-related things (for example, the key rebinding tutorial), please check the FAQ and Q&A forum! A lot of the stickies from this forum have been moved there to clean up space.
    Dismiss Notice

Why was so much content removed?

Discussion in 'Starbound Discussion' started by harrydm98, Feb 14, 2017.

  1. xaliber

    xaliber Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    I've been following this thread... I honestly don't have problem with Starbound as it is now. But this makes me want to respond. To be fair that's not really an explanation. That's telling, not explaining.

    "Not liking" isn't an explanation, it is an emotion that arose from a reason. You could've said, "we don't like it because it doesn't fit the lore," "we don't like it because it's overpowered," "we don't like it because its doesn't fit our targeted audience," etc.

    "We don't like it because X." The "X" is the explanation. It's still missing from your response...
  2. pop-yotheweird

    pop-yotheweird Ketchup Robot

    here's the reasoning, specifically the underlined part.
    the customer isn't always right lol. businesses just say that so people will continue to buy their stuff, but in no way does any employee ever assume the customer is correct from* the get-to.
    same with game development, at least that's what I imagine. the developers, especially Tiy, know this game better than anyone on the face of this planet period. they don't have to really answer that kind of question. it doesn't matter if it doesn't fit, or it's overpowered, or whatever. if the developers don't want it in their game, then by golly they'll remove it.

    sad truth, but a truth nonetheless.
  3. xaliber

    xaliber Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    No, I think you're confusing things. that's a reasoning why they can remove it. Not a reasoning why they didn't like it.

    The dev they can do whatever they want, yes we already get it. Let's get past this kind of "entitled consumer" thing, not all consumers are like that. The question is why they didn't like what they did.

    "We didn't like it because we built the game" doesn't really make sense, isn't it?
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
  4. Darkspinesupersonic8

    Darkspinesupersonic8 Pangalactic Porcupine

    No, it doesn't make sense at all. I agree with you, it's not really an answer, tbh.
  5. phichikapparho

    phichikapparho Subatomic Cosmonaut

    As I said. Might have well just said "neener neener" and stuck out their tongue and blew raspberries.
    Pingeh and Darkspinesupersonic8 like this.
  6. DukeLebowski

    DukeLebowski Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    The team doesn't owe anyone an explantion. You want a complete reasoning behind the removal of EVERYTHING that was in the betas? The first bosses, racial weapons, codexes, techs, boring outpost quests, temperature, biomes?

    I miss myself the temperature and the old techs, but that content is gone. Period. Now, the devs have other things to do than lingering the past with nostalgic players. Look at the upcoming patch and what they have released since 1.0, a lot of cool stuff.

    I swear, I didn't want to bring out the age card, but i'm fairly certain the fanbase asking for "explanations" consists of 12-17 years old who don't yet understand the game, or any project really, developpement process at all.

    In my opinion, the devs purposely avoided giving too much details on their developpement and choice making. Let's be honest. If they did, there would still be posts like these ones.
    pop-yotheweird and M_Sipher like this.
  7. xaliber

    xaliber Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    Well, they might not owe anyone explanation, but it gives a good customer experience. That's something people do in app development. And Tiy still replies to this thread anyway, so... why not? If they just can't explain the whys, maybe a simple "we can't disclose that at the moment" will do. People might still complain but at least that's a loud and clear "we can't tell you".

    Anyway I don't have any complains with the game as it is now. I'm enjoying the game. But the responses kinda raised my eyebrows...
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
    Sylxeria likes this.
  8. Blevruz

    Blevruz Phantasmal Quasar

    Here's what I think.

    A lot of things that have been added before were cool but not properly finished. So maybe they only wanted to keep the stuff that's done and add the rest later, if at all ?

    Monster attacks, the old lore, and most of that stuff was quite nice, but it probably wasn't the top priority; so they decided to finish what's already in the work and then work on that stuff later. (maybe)

    As said previously, most of this stuff that's been removed would still fit in the game, so perhaps it'd come back in a more complete manner ?
    Like, have the apex-avian-floran conspiracy have an influence on gameplay, or the USCM being tied more effectively into the universe...

    (note that the Agaran could prove this false, as they clearly had bigger intentions for them, but left them as random NPCs... Eh, idk)
    Hatsya Souji likes this.
  9. M_Sipher

    M_Sipher Oxygen Tank

    I'm trying to figure the best/clearest way to put this...

    ...but the multi-racial conspiracy deal is pretty much THE thing in early lore that screams "early brainstorming idea that didn't really have an end-goal and was ultimately too troublesome and complicated and just wasn't going to work going forward with the way the gameplay was developing so it had to go". It's precisely the kind of story notion that comes along early on in an ambitious writing project, gets worked on a bit, butts up against problems, then more problems, gets briefly even more overcomplicated (the Agarans), then eventually gets taken apart for parts and those salvaged parts get reworked.

    It's a writing process that's hit me many times over the last decade (and why I occasionally make that public grumble). You get TONS of ideas but they're not all going to fit, they're not all going to be good, they're not all going to actually work. Some of them have to go away, even if they are (theoretically) "major" ideas. A good writer needs to know when to kill their darlings.

    (Also for my money it shrank the universe to have three of the player races tied into some big vague shadow conspiracy. Also the Stargazers' involvement never really made much sense to me. I'm kinda glad it's gone.)
    DraikNova and STCW262 like this.
  10. Blevruz

    Blevruz Phantasmal Quasar

    I agree that some parts made little sense, but some elements (like the Greenfinger, or the Miniknog doing something) should probably come back.

    A revised version would be nice, as right now except the Ruin there isn't much going on.
    It'd be great to have an underlying plot hidden within the game, that'd force you to explore some more to find stuff in order to learn more.
    The Agaran stuff had that going for it when it was introduced - it was interesting, and people wanted to discover what was going on. Shame it was dropped.

    What I mean is, the "background plot" they had going before the release was quite interesting, and it'd be nice to have something like that back in the game - something that people have to look for, and that get speculations going.

    But that's most likely just wishful thinking on my end.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
    DraikNova, Pingeh and xaliber like this.
  11. STCW262

    STCW262 Heliosphere

    The Miniknog are still on to something. It's just that they apparently went from doing research with morally questionable methods in order to apparently have improved soldiers to doing it to look human again without losing their improved intellect, which seems pretty weird, considering that there's no explanation given as to why are so many resources wasted in an apparently aesthetic issue.
    Blevruz and xaliber like this.
  12. WallyBW93

    WallyBW93 Subatomic Cosmonaut

    I like coming to these threads and hearing about the old Starbound. It's one reason why I like to play as the Florans so much even though it goes against my love for more seafolk type characters.

    From an outside view from someone who never had the experience to play the unfinished Starbound. I'd sum up the reasoning for all the cut content is it didn't fit for what the developers of the game envisioned in their new storyline. But I also think it was to cull out the things people really did not like in the original so they can eventually only readd the things you did like as long as it fits with the current flow of the game. So maybe some of the stuff you guys had will come back if enough people want it and if the devs feel it will fit. I certainly hope this is the case because I want some of the stuff you guys had.
  13. cooltv27

    cooltv27 Heliosphere

    people like to keep mentioning bubble and butterfly boost being gone, and while I agree with wanting them back, im also kind of glad they are gone because they were really over powered
    it was fine in the older versions where almost everything was over powered so basically being propelled through the sky by spontaneously generated butterflies was fine. but when rebalancing came those techs had to go cause you really cant balance them (either its to strong or to weak, there wouldnt be a middle ground)

    I do also miss a lot of the lore that got removed and would love an actual explanation as to why they got removed (explanations as to why they didnt fit, or why the devs didnt feel like it worked) but I can at least understand wanting to tell a different story than when you started telling it
  14. bk3k

    bk3k Oxygen Tank

    Isn't what you really mean...
    "How about we ask the devs to change the game (in ways that affect everyone) to fit my personal preferences" rather than modding your own game to fit your personal preferences and not changing the game for everyone to fit your own wishes. You are welcome to your opinion, but please don't assume your opinion is some universal truth.

    If Chucklefish's game is the way they want it, it isn't "broken" hence there is nothing to "fix." All the same they have done well to support you modifying the game to change the aspects you would have different. Again remember not everyone would want the game exactly as you would.
  15. lazarus78

    lazarus78 The Waste of Time

    You really expect a detailed list with explanations of every removed bit of content, don't you?

    Why was stuff removed? Because they didn't like it. Period, the end, that is all. There IS nothing more to it than that. If that isn't satisfactory for you... then to bad. Deal with it. Not everything is going to have an answer that satisfies you.

    I don't see why this is so hard to grasp.

    It is a reasoning.

    They built the game, meaning the game is their vision, so if they removed something, then clearly it didn't align with their vision of the game, the one that they made. All this can be condensed down into "We built the game".

    So why was X removed? Because they built the game.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2017
  16. xaliber

    xaliber Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    No. I don't expect a list. I expect a tautological answer to a question. When there is an inquiry for a reason, the answer should be the reason, not the proposition that comes after the reason.

    If you're familiar with the adage "show, don't tell", it works in similar way. "Not liking" is a proposition that arose from a reason. It is not the reason by themselves. This link might help explaining it: http://www.iep.utm.edu/prop-log/

    Please don't lump me together with the "entitled consumer". As I've said before, I'm enjoying the game. I don't care that much why they removed the content, really, as long as the modding scene flourishes. I'm just not comfortable seeing a response that doesn't answer an inquiry tautologically. Thing I learned from PR is, either you answer the question, or you don't. That's all, really.

    Last edited: Mar 2, 2017
  17. DraikNova

    DraikNova Spaceman Spiff

    I'm assuming that the Miniknog are doing what authoritarian governments always do: try to entrench themselves further.
  18. lazarus78

    lazarus78 The Waste of Time

    Tiy literally said their reason for removing things was "because we didn't like it". That is LITERALLY their reason. It just isn't satisfactory to some people, but that simply is the reason whether you, or anyone, like it or not.

    Why didn't you go to work today? "Because I didn't feel like it."
    Why are things the way they are? "Because that is how we made them."

    And given all that was removed, you would have to get into the specifics of each and every one on an individual level inorder to get any more information. But as it stands, the overall reason, as Tiy directly said, was because it was content they didn't like. Simple as that.

    And Im not lumping you in with entitled people or anything like that. Just countering points as I feel.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2017
  19. xaliber

    xaliber Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    I think you're confusing "reason" as in "a statement offered in explanation or justification", with "reason" as in "the basis for an action" (per Merriam-Webster definition).

    Of course everyone here understands that their justification is that they do not like it. Everyone understands that "not liking" is what they stated. But "not liking" is NOT a basis for an action. "Not liking" itself arose from another thing. It arose from a conditional basis - a reason.

    I have said before that I'm enjoying the game, so it's not really about my personal preference or some sort. :/ This is a problem of tautology.

    When people justified their action because they feel they're "not liking it", there is a condition which caused them to feel "not liking it". Whether they want to explain it or not, is another matter. Which is why, like I have said before, if they just can't explain it there is always, "we can't say more about it at the moment." Loud and clear, no more questions asked.

    Last edited: Mar 2, 2017
  20. lazarus78

    lazarus78 The Waste of Time

    So everything you have ever done in your life has a detailed reason behind it? Well, maybe so, I don't know you personally, but I would find it very hard to believe.

    Though, we often pick things because "we liked it", and that is an acceptable answer, so why is doing something because "We didn't like it" not the same?

    Why do I have every official Fallout themed shirt? Because I like them. Why don't I have any Minecraft themed shirts? Because I don't like them. Nothing more to it.

    So why did Chucklefish decide to remove content from their game? Because they didn't like it. You could further infer, if you wanted, that it didn't fit with their vision of the game, that it didn't work how they wanted it to, or whatever, but that doesn't really change the primary reasoning. They didn't like it.

    Never made any claim that you or anyone didn't enjoy the game. We all have our own reasons, even if some are just "I like it".

    I don't think it has anything to do with not being able to say more, but rather, there is nothing more to it. Tiy made it quite clear, well, for me at least, why they made the decisions to remove things, and I completely understand it.

Share This Page