I read some topics around here, the idea of ALL weapons using "energy" makes me sad, lets be clear here, i cent be the only one who like's guns, and losing a big aspect like ammo would make my experience with guns and World as whole a bid lacking. Before i continue i just want to point out some of the issues, which in my opinion, forced Devs to consider this idea of "energy" for ammo, and i believe this issues can be solved. - Balance. We all know that in games creating balance is one of the hardest thins to do, so i believe they chose this "solution" to prevent people from shooting non stop with there guns, in case if ammo was infinite. - Ammo types, if there is too many ammo types the guns effect in it self would lose its purpose and people would just pick a gun with best stats and use special ammo types instead of looking for weapons with special effects. - Ammo production, creating different types of ammo and not letting people the ability to manufacture them on there own would be really stupid, but it could be abused if people over produce only the best ammo types and ignore the rest. - Ammo would just take too much space in the inventory. - Too much work, to program, create icons, implement into the world, well etc you get my point. I bet there is more issues out there, but let us get to the point, Solutions: - Make AMMO universal, what do i mean? Separate guns into different types, and i am assuming you dint do this yet, Main types would be Pistols , Rifles , Shotguns, RPG, Energy, Special. Haw all pistols use pistol ammo no mater what special effects pistol its self has, same apply to the rest. With this you would haw total of 6 different ammo types for different weapons. ( Pistol Ammo, Rifle Ammo, Shotgun Ammo, RPG Ammo, Energy Cell, Special ammo (for Bows or Crossbows, or somthin else i dont know about that consumes ammo) and this are just simple examples.) - Make it that AMMO dose not provide any Special bonuses, that includes no special damage or any kind of Elemental bonuses to your weapons, you will get those from the guns them selfs, AMMO will strictly be a requirement to use special weapon. - Make AMMO stack able up to 1000 or so in single inventory block, no need for "special" ammo slots, just to haw ammo in your inventory is enough, and guns would automatically consume it as a cost. - Make AMMO production simple, not expensive, make combination between common resources that are easy to find with combination of metal, and would require some sort of "Work bench", it can be some special workstation, or not, as long as you cent make AMMO on the run. - Provide "Reload Time" and Ammo Capacity to Guns, as to maintain balance, Guns types would haw different minimal and maximum reload type and ammo capacity, it would be random generated as another stat, this would provide balance as to not shooting guns non stop. Please consider my suggestions, as guns lover i would really like for my guns to haw ammo. This is some other optional stuff that could be implemented: -Humanoid enemy's who use guns would drop AMMO -Some Worlds should drop Ammo or contain AMMO in "random crates"(in case of Dungeon) or chests, and Some should not in case of Virgin World or World with no technology. -Crafting Special item that would allow you to stuck more ammo into single backpack block (like from 1000 to 10 000), or Special Ammo Crates that you can deploy and your friends can pick Ammo from them, somthin like single block would contain 4 blocks of 1000 ammo and you or friends could pick them up. I cent empathize how fun it would be to create ammo provisions inside my Base, or different basses, or the filling when you run out of ammo on wild world with enemy's all around you. Thank you for reading my post and hope you take this topic into consideration.
Your poll seems to highly favor one side of the argument. Anyway, this sounds identical to Terraria's ammo system, which was alright, but highly annoying. My guess as to why ammo was taken out is this: Ammo in itself is a consumable. Ammo takes up spots in your inventory, and you can only hold so much.Ammo becomes another resource in your inventory that you have to micro-mange. Ammo relates to money instead of skill. You waste a lot of time trying to get the best ammo. In short, ammo is not fun, regardless of immersion.
I do agree with this entire thread. Although energy can oft be used as a method of propulsion for weapons (in fact all technically), ammo would be more interesting. Provided you aren't asking to remove all energy type weapons, i'm ok with this. Also, weapons, no matter what will either have a reload or cooldown period, at least for as far as we know what has been revealed.
I am kind of impartial about this. However, I must attest to the annoyance of having to farm for the "best ammo evar". You would spend twice as much time farming for ammo than you would for using it. Killing bosses, having fun, ext. But, removing tiers of ammo wouldn't reduce the annoyance of having to farm for more ammo anyways; it would just be easier. I respect that it would be more realistic, but I personally wouldn't find it more fun. Good news though, A LOT of other people out there love that "survival feel" to the games they play, so i would say this is a feasible alternative to overhauling ammo entirely.
I understand your reasoning, I really do. Ammo makes more sense than energy, and it can be thought of a disadvantage to use a ranged weapon over a melee weapon. However, ammo has always been a sort of burden to me. Going back to buy or craft new ammo in Terraria always felt like a chore. You said that guns with ammo would be "balanced" but I sort of disagree. While, yes, you can run out of ammo, you can also buy truckloads of ammo, and never have to stop firing; Uuless you have to reload, of course, but I don't really think reloading would be practical in a game like this. It would ruin the flow of combat and make using guns a bit irritating and confusing. On the other side, with energy, you have an unlimited amount of "ammunition", yes, but it limits the amount of firepower over a short period of time. Either way, good post, and I'm sure there's a lot of people that would be on your side on this.
I think you dint read my post at all = ( "Ammo takes up spots in your inventory, and you can only hold so much." - "- Make AMMO stack able up to 1000 or so in single inventory block, no need for "special" ammo slots, just to haw ammo in your inventory is enough, and guns would automatically consume it as a cost." it can be more then just 1000 it was just an example. "You waste a lot of time trying to get the best ammo." - " - Make it that AMMO dose not provide any Special bonuses, that includes no special damage or any kind of Elemental bonuses to your weapons, you will get those from the guns them selfs, AMMO will strictly be a requirement to use special weapon. " "Ammo relates to money instead of skill." - "- Make AMMO production simple, not expensive, make combination between common resources that are easy to find with combination of metal, and would require some sort of "Work bench", it can be some special workstation, or not, as long as you cent make AMMO on the run." Your poll seems to highly favor one side of the argument. - My firs paragraphs where all about why Ammo is bad :S how do i only take 1 side of the argument?
Ammo from energy doesn't bother for what they have as far as lore goes for me. Since objects can mad from energy (or pixels I think its called) the only exception I would se for this is low tech such as bows as a gun could just be made to create and shoot ammo when they have a power source.
this goes a bit against what i intent to prove here but Bow can also be used to consume energy, by generating Arrows made of energy or Hard light technology, well there are more ways that make more sense. Any way where were i, ah yes Pleas Vote Yes for AMMO!
Make AMMO stack able up to 1000 or so in single inventory block, no need for "special" ammo slots, just to haw ammo in your inventory is enough, and guns would automatically consume it as a cost." it can be more then just 1000 it was just an example. Still takes up inventory. Ammo can run out fast when you have a rapid-firing gun. - Make it that AMMO dose not provide any Special bonuses, that includes no special damage or any kind of Elemental bonuses to your weapons, you will get those from the guns them selfs, AMMO will strictly be a requirement to use special weapon. " You still waste time trying to get the best ammo, aka the only ammo. "Make AMMO production simple, not expensive, make combination between common resources that are easy to find with combination of metal, and would require some sort of "Work bench", it can be some special workstation, or not, as long as you cent make AMMO on the run." Still makes it waste time and money. My firs paragraphs where all about why Ammo is bad :S how do i only take 1 side of the argument? I said POLL. No to AMMO! Its ok as it is, that all wepaons should use Energy. Yes to AMMO! because its Fun, and important aspekt of Immersion. You provided no reasons as to why energy could be better than ammo in any way. This makes it seem like energy is inferior to ammo.
I'll be honest, I was never too sure why they decided on using energy instead of ammo, but after reading your whole post I can breathe a sigh of relief knowing that I won't be fumbling around with stacks of different ammo types filling up my inventory because they are a requirement to use a particular weapon.
Ah that was not my intention, you are right, but as i see it Energy wont be so different form Ammo as a "concept", you run out of energy and need time to wait for it to regenerate seems the same as Reload time with Ammo. But here it goes: The main imbalance from energy for me is: will some people regenerate it faster then others? or haw more energy? or if all guns consume same amount of energy? this issues can provoke imbalance, but since i haw no info of how actually it will work, it tried to avoid them. The main benefice of Energy is: that you dont need to micro manage a resource ( since i actually do like to micromanage my ammo i dont see this as a good thin for my self but i imagine most people do consider it a good thin), You dont need to produce ammo since you will haw infinite amount of it, you dont need to reload and can use short burst combined with escape maneuver to maximize damage.
ammo is a good idea, however most people would rather take the easy way and all weapons could use energy. something that could make this work is owning a factory or station aboard your ship that can produce ammunition in care packages or something along with energy weapons so that it is a bit more realistic.
Energy will most likely regenerate the same speed for everyone, though it might be very minimally increased by certain player items. Different weapons will use different amount of energy, and I'm pretty sure you can see examples of that on Tiy's streams, if they've implemented it yet. For example, shooting a giant rocket is probably going to consume more energy than shooting off one round from a pistol. This rewards players who don't just use the weapons with the highest damage, allowing for weaker, but quicker shots.
I'm fine with energy. It's the same thing, really. Since the guns will provide all the damage and interesting effects themselves, bullets would be just another thing to buy. Tiy's said he will not be adding ammo that changes the effect or damage of a gun, so energy works just fine. Really, anything's better than seeing people running backward shooting an endless stream of Crystal Bullets from their Megashark with no break or pause. It's not like that took any skill, anyway. Just farm up the max bullets, and hold the button down till the boss died. Energy is fine for limiting how many bullets you can put in the air at a time. No ammo taking up inventory space No mindless bullet spam No wasting money or time farming ammunition It's balanced, simple, and effective. I'll take energy, thanks.
I do understand wht you mean and i made point about it : " - Make it that AMMO dose not provide any Special bonuses, that includes no special damage or any kind of Elemental bonuses to your weapons, you will get those from the guns them selfs, AMMO will strictly be a requirement to use special weapon. " But you also haw to see that by removing Ammo from ALL weapons is like saying, well now All Swords can shoot lazer beams and you dont need to be in meele range to atack, may be this example was a bit too far :S . I dont mind hawing Weapons that are Based on Energy, and people who dont like ammo should just use those instead of physical guns, but completely removing Ammo feels to me that they are ignoring the essences that make Guns... well Guns... and not laser pistols.
The problem with Ammo is, if you use Ammo, then Ranged players can just use extremely tanky Melee armor. I don't want somebody that is incredibly proficient with a Machine Gun to be extremely hard to kill as well. If Ammo is energy, then to play a Ranged character, you have to use Armor and Tech that makes your Energy regenerate faster. Of course, you could do a Hybrid as well, however then they wouldn't be as amazing with Guns. I think the decision to use Energy for guns was an incredible decision to help balance PvP and combat in general.
If the ammo adds absolutely nothing to the gun in terms of effects or damage, then it's doing nothing but being a limitation anyway. The problem is that it's not a good limitation, since it doesn't limit the actual problem. In Terraria, there was no reason to not use a Megashark. Why? Because ammo was the only limitation, and you could hold more than it would ever take to kill anything in the game. You got to be safer than a melee because you just kited the boss around, and shot it from a safe distance. You did more damage, because you didn't have to dodge like a melee player did. You just held the button down and ran backwards. If ammo is the only thing you need to fire a gun, why not just hold down the trigger forever till the boss falls over? You're carrying so much ammo, what does it matter? Just spam till you win. One might say, "Well, make the guns have a clip size so they can only fire so many bullets before needing to reload." "Ok." I says, and switch from the Megashark in my #1 hotbar slot to the Megashark in my #2 slot, and right on down the hotbar. In Starbound, there's near infinite guns I could load my hotbar with to get around that system. So, how do we fix it? Well, if everyone will just have infinite ammo anyway, why not just give them the infinite ammo, but impose a limit on how much they can fire in a burst? But instead of letting them spam it till their guns run dry, then switch to the next, we tie all the guns together so that if you used all your "ammo" up shooting that rocket launcher, the machine gun in the next slot will also be out of "ammo". Now you have a choice. Spam the gun till it's out of "ammo" and leave yourself vulnerable while you "reload", or use it sparingly. Aim. Be precise. "Reload" while fighting so you never run out. Energy or Ammo. Reload or Recharge. It's just different words for the same thing, when you think about it. Of course you could just be a badass and charge in with your axe, swinging as wildly as you please, since axes don't need to reload. I feel this change will balance not only the guns themselves, but make melee at least a little more viable. In a universe where coal is used as fuel to jump from one star to another in a ship the size of my bedroom, I'm willing to let them get away with saying every gun is fired using energy.
Where did you get this information? My impression is that you need gear that causes you to regenerate MUCH faster to efficiently use powerful guns, meaning that you can't do what you could in Terraria, and wear Molten Armor whilst firing a Minishark nonstop.
I don't have a source, it's just my guess. I think if there were armor that made you regenerate a lot faster, it'd be a bit overpowered, unless it was endgame armor and the regeneration increased gradually from the early-game armors.
