Why I hate the Apex

Well, at the moment, we only have the small tidbit from the "Introducing the Apex" post. And like in much of science fiction, it isn't necessarily written from an omniscient, all-knowing perspective. Just because the post uses the word evolution and de-evolution, that doesn't mean that was the actual process at work, as it is likely a catchy way that Apex reporters could have spun the story. Again, that could have been the way as the society viewed it, as a metaphorical "de-evolution" not a literal one. Also we have no idea how the VEP process they talk about works yet, so until something in game directly contradicts the way you imagine it to be, you can always just use that as your explanation.

EDIT: And yes, I guess the explanation is a bit over-compicated compared to the idea that they just evolved to look that way. But I guess good sci-fi (and even B-movie sci-fi) is typically over complicated, which is why I can enjoy some more of the elaborate and seemingly ridiculous stories.

And while I also don't care for the Apex aesthetic as much as I do the other races, I wasn't trying to convince you to play as one, just trying to help reconcile them in the in-game universe so that you could maybe enjoy it more and become more immersed

 

Hahah, ah I'm perfectly immersed as is, I'd only find it difficult if I played as an Apex because I'd be constantly reminded that the race, as far as we know, is based on a rather silly concept. I agree that it was probably bad word choice, but the problem is, to me, they've provided this explanation which paints a very unrealistic and nonsensical picture. Hopefully they will change it and it'll make more sense, but I don't think its likely.

EDIT: Sorry I missed your posts.

Hmm I see where you're coming from but great apes such as Gorillas and Chimpanzees are actually physically superior to humans. They don't put fat on as easily, have stronger immune systems and typically have a great deal more strength than we do. Furthermore you don't actually always have that amount of chromosomes, part of becoming a new species may be a result of the creation of more chromosomes or the loss of some. In the case of humans we were initially like other Great Apes in that we had 48 (granted this was when we were still fur covered) however two chromosome pairs merged leaving us with 46. Furthermore you don't really need to make any room on a chromosome for further complexity of an organism.

For example, Carp have 104 chromosomes, and I think we can agree they aren't as complex as humans.

 

(Only read the OP so far and the post with the original Planet of the Apes picture (+1 like for that xD))

First of all, thank you for pointing out why you don't like something. It's perfectly fine to dislike things, but I believe a justification should always (when possible) follow, just to allow others to take a look at your sentiments and see things from your point of view. Doing so is much more efficient and effective than simply stating something without providing anything to back it up.

I disagree with you, however. Well, I'll give it to you that the Apex are ugly. Nevertheless, this "ugliness" works for me. It just bestows something primal upon the beings that makes me glad about them. I feel the same way about orcs, trolls, and ogres, for instance. They are clearly not pretty creatures, but their own ugly primal style is what gives them value. One of the reasons for this is that it's nice every once in a while to escape from the typical charming/elegant heroes and delve into something a bit more beast like. I enjoy that. ^^ I understand that the Apex are not primal at all in terms of technology and society - I'm referring to their appearance.

In terms of devolving physically in order to gain intellect, well, I think it could be approached on a more philosophical level, rather than a scientific/logical one. The question of, "Are people willing to sacrifice their shells, their strength, their motion, their flesh - in order to gain intellect/wisdom/knowledge" is worth of consideration. What do they find more valuable? Clearly the Apex prefer brains to booty, but that's up to them.

 

Please humor me, OP. What race will you be playing?

 

Very true. Perhaps the in-game lore will make some more sense of the matter, or perhaps it will just serve to make it more outlandish (which I'm cool with too, I enjoy a good "unobtanium" type story). But your point is very valid, a lot of sci-fi has elements that people simply dislike the authors explanation of, which is why plenty of people like to ignore midichlorians from Star Wars, or how they implanted a virus in an alien computer system in Independence Day. Still, this stuff is always fun to debate and speculate.

 

Human first of all, then I'll probably play the Glitch.

 

Then how's about this, start a thread about Humans/Glitch and go into detail about how you like them, and prefer them, without handing out hate to species that you dislike/aren't going to be playing anyways. That would make for a lot better conversation, I'm sure people would be much more engaged in a topic that's promoting a species, rather than degrading and hating on it.

 

I actually posted a reason originally for why I'm posting my dislikes. (Although I do intend to eventually post something about Humans and Glitch) I prefer to have discussions about things I dislike because it draws more people and hence usually grants me a better discussion. I've found that on these forums the threads titled 'Why I love' or 'Why I like' don't receive the same kind of attention. People are more likely to look at a rant rather than a declaration for something they like. Thats what I've noticed anyway.

I assume that when I point out my dislikes in a species people will rush to correct me, which is what I want, I want to discuss it with other people. People may be more engaged in a topic promoting a species but not in the way I'm looking for, its very common on this forum for someone to make a thread saying "I like X" and then have several pages of other people saying "I also like X" and explaining to what degree they like X. That isn't interesting to me, and I actively avoid those threads unless I happen to disagree with the poster.

 

No indeed, evolution doesn't work that way. But genetic manipulation or even carefull selection over many generation (or both) could and would. So it is very much plausible and this is actually a very common theme in science-fiction. If you want an exemple, look up Master of Orion 3. There was a race in there (can't remember the name) that accepted to be modified by another race in order to become as smart as possible. They are now next to useless physicaly needing to rely on machine to event make them move around but are extremly smart.

And ugly well, hey, tastes, so I wont go into that. Pretty much what Keeper said tough.

 

You're right. It doesn't make a ton of sense. I don't honestly give that much of a shit, I do think we could improve it.

I think the problem is the phrasing. Everybody knows that the great apes have much greater strength than your average human. So, rather than regressing it could be branded as reclaiming. Old gene sequences deemed useful are re-activated to mesh with their current intellect. The search for Apex perfection in such a manner fits with the current mindset of the race and the Minikong.

Would this be a suitable change to the current lore to assuage your worries?


And remember, ladies and gentlemen, Go Ape.

 

I agree, and I do address that its possible for them to do this. I was questioning more why they would actively insert genes from a previous ancestor (as implied by the term de-evolve) in order to do so, as well as pointing out that it probably wasn't necessary to trade anything at all if they directly manipulate their genes as such.

 

I think the term de-evolve simply refer to them going backward compared to what they had rather than going back to "older" genes. In this case, evolution/de-evolution simply mark a positive or negative change. As for genetic manipulation, I would expect it to be not so easy and genomes used for inteligence might need the place occupied by genome macking physical characteristic. Or you know, I'm not exactly a doctor in the field so yeah.

 

Eh it doesn't really work like that, theres no lack in space, you can use special eynzymes to cut genes at certain sequences and then stick other genes in there with relative ease. Chances are with this technology a tradeoff isn't required.

Not to mention there is a lot, and I mean A LOT of junk DNA that isn't used for anything in all lifeforms. You could probably remove that if space was a factor, but it probably isn't.

EDIT: I should say quickly, Junk DNA is a term to refer to gene sequences there is no discernible purpose for.

 

Who knows, the devs might have an entire new lore by the time the game is finished. And even if it is the final version the Apex get, I don't think it's that bad to be honest.
Altough I can see where you're coming from, I don't think you should be so negative about that. I think the developers focus didn't go to the lore and backstories at first, but I think they will expand on it once the more important elements are done.

 

Because hating is much much more fun to do except people forget that not everyone hates the same things you hate. It is like seeing ants die in your own spit, you know they don't hate you yet you are so hateful and it is so much fun.

 

Also much more likely to get you reported, warned and banned from these forums. You'll need to have that kind of "fun" elsewhere.

 

Step lightly, folks. Big Ape is watching.

 

Why are the "why I hate ___ race" threads, first Novakid and now Apex.

 

Because someone has an opinion and they aren't happy with things as is. This is how things progress and grow. Novakid because it recently came out, and Apex because someone wondered why the OP of Novakid thread had a bee up his bonnet.

 

Except the OP of both threads are the same person.