Why I hate the Apex

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I AM DISSAPOINT.​

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And the Truth comes out... This is why you've been such a stickler for things... you're a University Student who has learnt new things and now deems that anything you involve yourself in must conform to those teachings.

Additionally...

- In regards to the Novakids
And yet...

- In regards to my stating we don't know nearly as much as you think we do in regards to science.

So either we have a firm understanding of genetics/evolution or we don't... you can't have it both ways. Not to mention the fact that if we REALLY understood stuff like genetics, and biology well enough to know how any biological being in the universes "should" evolve/exists genetically. Then why can't we do something as simple as cure Cancer, or HIV and to be more specific how about GENETIC diseases such as Cystic fibrosis, Huntingtons, Hemophilia?


As for your "Name aspects of Fantasy"
How about:
Bird-People
Plant-People
Fish-People

Last I checked none of those exists in our little known pocket of the world. Could they potentially exists? Sure, we aren't naïve enough (surprisingly) to assume that every sentient being in the universe must be an evolution of bi-pedal mammalian hominid.

You have your opinion, you don't like the Apex appearance. Fine; visual taste is in the eye of the beholder. You don't like the Apex lore. Fine; if you can't suspend believe enough to ENJOY the Fictional story being laid out in Starbound then that is your own problem and I genuinely hope you are still able to enjoy the game since you clearly are going to have issues with parts of the lore.

However, don't pretend that you are some great authority on the universe and that the story is implausible because you deem it so. It is plausible because whomever wrote the section for the Apex story deemed it possible in Starbound's universe, and they did a damn good job of it and should be appreciated for it. Not raked over the coals because they didn't do six years of genetics in school to know exactly how some process would potentially work in HUMAN genetics, and apply that boring template to the genetics of a FICTIONAL race they were creating.


By the way, don't bother replying back, I won't be commenting anymore. You and your narrow minded view of reality can just hang out here and do... whatever, I don't care. I'd put you on ignore, but I don't want to miss other people's conversations just because you happen to be around the random thread at the time.

 

Just shut up, you all. Somebody not liking a race is not a reason to hate them. For example, I will dislike playing as a human, but the rest I like. Does that make me worse than the rest? No. Just shut up and settle this over a warm cup of te- coffee, shall we?

 

Isn't the whole fantasy/science-fiction thing more opinion based than anything else?

For example, the OP may think it is science fiction, others may see it as -fantasy fiction-, so not really much point in trying to convince each other that it is more fantasy, or more science, because people are going to stick with their own opinions anyway.

I personally think it goes more into science, good example of a -more fantasy- game would be Terraria. A possible fantasy element in StarBound could be the melee weapons, I've seen a rather large stone-ish sword in a screenshot, so if it would be fully science fiction, I don't see why more "classical" melee weapons like that one should be used at all.

But that's just how I think about it.

 

Lets all dial it down a little. I know not every one is riled, but lets take a step and chill before the mods put us on ice. Been an interesting thread so far agree or disagree with the original posters view, no need to see it put down now when we managed to keep it civil so far.

 

The real issue is that, unfortunately, it's getting pretty common in these forums for people to make ''discussion'' threads for their opinions yet don't actually DISCUSS anything. This thread is one of those threads. The OP isn't looking for a discussion and despite what may or may not be stated this is a fact. They give their opinions and essentially walk away. No matter who says what or in what way the OP will argue against it for the sake of trying to hold onto their stubborn, and narrow views on certain topics.

This thread and threads like this are essentially ''flowery'' flame-baiting topics and should all be locked immediately if the OP is seen to not even CARE for any actual discussions that go against their opinions. We're obviously not getting anything out of this and all threads like this ALWAYS go in circles until they're locked because again, there is no discussion to be had.

OP clearly believes that fantasy/sci-fi only means what they WANT it to mean and can't accept that in a VIDEO GAME with a science fiction theme can't do things that ''normally'' aren't possible in the real world. They're completely ignoring every other aspect of the game that isn't normally possible so far because they want to ''discuss'' THIS topic. You can say, ''Oh, but this or that is just as absurd as well'', but they clearly don't care and instead try to ''protect'' their opinions to their dying breath.

Again, mods need to be VERY strict with these pseudo-discussion topics and lock them immediately. They only hurt the community and nobody gets anything out of them except arguments because the OPs never actually discuss anything, only argue.

 

But that's just is. They absolutely CAN be linked traits. Activating a set of dormant genes is much easier than activating only a few.
It's entirely possible; they COULD be linked in this species.
They weren't human after all.
Just more human than they are now.

 

I guess.. Just as humans make mistakes, the Apex made a mistake as well.

There are plenty of cases of ideas/projects on the world that get tested thoroughly and still contain errors, software is a good example, look at bugs in games.

Maybe the race realized the mistake after it had gotten smarter

I'd like to propose one.. What about the FTL drive in the spaceships? According to Einstein no object with mass should be able to surpass the speed of light, so going faster than light is more of a fantasy than actual science I'd think.

 

We're arguing if it's science fantasy - something that uses a veneer of scienctific realisim to something that couldn't really happen or science fiction - which uses science that could plausibly work irl.
I think it's sci-fantasy, because tiy said it was.
The OP thinks it's sci-fi because he apparently knows better than the lead dev

 

Aye, I believe it is.

 

Actually no, evolutionary biology was introduced to me at the age of 10, since then I've built my knowledge of it and now I'm in University where I have learned the finer details. Evolution is not new to me, and please, the pseudo-psychology is great and all, but it isn't relevant.

The Novakids are clearly a completely different form of life, the Apex are not. There is a pretty key difference here. Furthermore I think our understanding of Evolution is pretty complete, and you'd be hard pressed to find a scientist who disagrees with that sentiment.

I'll get into specifics then. We have a firm understanding of the genetics and evolution of life with a similar basis to our own, not gas based. Hows that?

That you think curing cancer or HIV is simple is laughable, treating genetic diseases is even more difficult. We can't cure these not because we don't understand them, but because we have not yet devised a method to do so. Here is an analogy for you to help you understand, you may have a complete understanding of how a car engine works, but not how to fix one.

None of which are fantasy, just different from the norm. All of these could potentially exist in our Universe. I don't see fantasy here, only science fiction.

If however you were to claim a God created this races using some form of magic, then you'd be moving into fantasy.

I've just been pointing out that it is implausible in our Universe, and I base this on Scientific knowledge. I'm not pretending to be an authority, why are you getting such an egg in your bonnet?

I don't recall saying the writer was an idiot, I merely pointed out that the story doesn't make a lot of sense and could use some work. I disagree with you that they did a good job of the backstory, hence why I posted this here. Again, I ask, why are you so riled up over this? Calm down, I've posted my opinion, you don't need to get so worked up over it. I was actually enjoying our discussion.

Don't take it so seriously, and don't be a white knight. The guy who wrote this story is a grown man or woman, they can handle a little criticism, they don't need you to come here and get annoyed at people who dare speak out against their work.

Well thats a shame, I'd hoped to have a civil discussion with you but it appears you've allowed yourself to get worked up over my opinion, and thats really rather unfortunate.

A discussion doesn't require me to change my opinion, a discussion means we exchange ideas and talk about them. Which is what we've been doing. Believe it or not, debate is a form of discussion. I have been active in this thread since the beginning, and I've been discussing it with people. That you disagree with my opinion is not a reason to claim that I am not having a discussion.

How could they be linked? This implies that the same genes that code for growth of hair and outward appearance also code for the functionality of the brain. In all forms of life that we have seen there is evidence that this isn't the case, toy breed dogs are just as intelligent as larger specimens despite their outward appearance being vastly different. Humans of different race are all of (relatively) equal levels of intelligence despite outward appearance. I don't think they could be linked as you claim, genes aren't typically linked with one another in the way you describe, its possible to activate one dormant gene without activating others.


EDIT:

If thats the case I wonder why the Apex haven't tried to fix it. If they're so much smarter than they previously were, it wouldn't be a great task to refine the process and reverse the changes made.

Travelling FTL is actually not as impossible as one might think. You can never truly reach the speed of light, however you can warp space around you in a way that you hence travel a vast distance in a relatively short amount of time, essentially 'faster' than Light could. We have actually devised a method of doing so, look up warp drive in google and you'll probably find a few articles about it.

 

Accidentally posted before I finished typing.
I edited the rest in.

 

That's pretty cool, I've heard some things about it yeah, will look up those articles.

 

No I think its Science-fiction because I've yet to see enough to truly make it science fantasy. Most of the concepts are scientifically sound, except for the VEP process. This is but one aspect of the game. Once it comes out, and it becomes clear as to whether the content can be considered science fantasy or not, I'll stand corrected, I have no problem accepting when I'm wrong when faced with evidence. However there isn't sufficient evidence to provide either side.

 

Oh I see now.

Yeah I think it's a bit of both as well, though with major emphasis on science, more than I have ever seen in a game of its type. I kinda like it, theme reminds me of those older space games I used to play back in the day, such as Space Colony

 

Just wanted to say.

I think people are reading a tone from my posts that isn't there. I'm not trying to sound haughty or sarcastic, I am literally typing as I would speak to you. Don't mistake my disagreement for dismissal. I welcome the opportunity to speak to all of you.

I apologize if you get the wrong idea from my posts, but if you feel like starting to get insulting or hostile because of it, I'd prefer you refrain from doing so and do your best to keep civil.

 

YOUR own standards. You seem to have it stuck in your head that humans can only ever find humans attractive, when a very quick glance at the internet (hell, just this thread) will prove that wrong, not to mention countless cases of bestiality over the past several millennia and likely before.

Alright, you've got 10 years to isolate the genes responsible for intelligence in primates. Go.
You're still assuming that they have a perfect understanding of genetics when they clearly don't.

 

I'm not really getting you on this one: You keep saying "X would be magic, not fantasy," but then you say "if Y were a god and used magic, it would be fantasy." Which is it? Does magic exempt it from science-fantasy or does it define it?

And, well, if you spoke to people like that in discussion in-person, I'm sure plenty of people would get tired. This thread is tiring to read. Regardless of intent, you -do- come off as inflexible.

My two cents on the Apex lore: They're based in part on 1984, thus I believe that their presumed "evolution" to gain intelligence was nothing more than a farce, and the Apex public has been kept in the dark about it.

 

I feel I should explain. The Apex seem to have acknowledged a physical devolution, people have said to me that they haven't actually physically de-evolved it was more a trade of appearance. This would suggest that even the Apex recognize they made a trade of appearance.
Also I'm well aware that not everyone's only attracted to humans, and whenever you previously asked me about it I never once said that everyone was like me in this regard.

Oh yes, because I'm the equivalent of several government funded research teams. (sarcasm intended)

No I'm assuming they have numerous scientists working on this concept. The entire thing was species wide, which would imply they had a lot of their resources dedicated to it. A decade is not an unreasonable amount of time for them to have worked out the kinks. They may not have had a perfect understanding of genetics a try, however I find it odd that they wouldn't try to find a better way (because there most certainly would have been one) considering they value their science so much.


EDIT:

Magic would assist in defining it, but it wouldn't be the sole factor. I think theres been some miscommunication I said "perceived" as magic, not magic itself. If I did directly say "this would be magic, not fantasy" could you provide the quote?

I didn't ask people to try and change my mind, this was made with the intention to discuss various ideas, if my opinion was changed, great, but that wasn't my intention. If they get irritated because they can't change my mind, that isn't a fault of mine, but theirs. They should only be invested in the discussion, not trying to get some stranger on the internet to change his mind on something inconsequential.

If that was the case I would really have to applaud the lore-writer. Its the kind of misconception of evolution that you could give to people and the vast majority would believe it, especially in a 1984 style society in which information is limited.

Bravo to the writer if this is the case because it would be perfect.

 

It seems to me everyone is saying "Stop fretting, it's a game man". That's not the OPs point, he's just saying it doesn't make much sense from our viewpoint of how evolution works. It MIGHT be different in that universe, but the fact that no one on the dev team has said it's based on a different physics/biological system than our own, I think, is enough for the OP to simply say "Hey, this bugs me, it's not a deal breaker, it's just weird."

"OP doesn't listen to any arguments he just tells us we're wrong while detailing why he thinks we are wrong. Let's call him inflexible instead of attacking his arguments".

That's the feel I'm getting in this thread, so hard.


EDIT: Wait, lemme get on the OP too, you ain't safe. GONNA HUNT YOU DOWN!

Yes, you care somewhat about what others think of your opinion, that's why you posted, even if it's just for discussion, it's still about people thinking about your opinion to respond.

Free Speech IS a right we have as humans, the first amendment of the US constitution says the government can't inhibit it, not grant it. At the same time, yes, the server owners do have the right to tell you to shut up on their property, but they surely wouldn't do it over in game lore so honestly bringing up freedom of speech was pointless in the first place, not sure why you did that.