Why I hate the Apex

Ill say this much.

The avian regeneration spritework does look like magic.

That amount of mass, matter, and memory transfer from egg to adult in seconds? I know you can argue its advanced enough that its just biogenetic science or something like.. piccallo from dbz..

- but I will give that the look and feel of it implies magic, even if it could be something else. Its probably the one thing I can think of that stands out at the moment.

 

Now, not being a that much of a scientist some of these things may be perfectly Scientific. however here are a few exampes:
as you have pointed out the VEP is hardly grounded in science.
For Novakids, pieces of metal charged with huge amounts of energy create plasma shells, filled with Gas that somehow become sentient.
The glitch are robots created by a highly advanced race, their programming had a malfunction and they were stuck in the medieval era, now, if this race is as advanced as they say I doubt they would make a mistake so huge that it would stop the entirety of the Glitch population from advancing past the medieval era. Also, as they have metal shells, why would they be harmed just as badly as one of the meatbags when hit with a sword?
Florans are a unisex race, and yet some members of the race have breasts, which would be completely unnecessary.

This is pretty much sums it up.

 

Quick, guys, call 911! There's a sci-fi game changing how evolution works!

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll be customizing my humanoid plant-being some more.

 

The VEP is a flawed concept in general, it doesn't exactly demonstrate fantasy either.

Which relies on a form of life we don't yet understand. Hence it appears to be magic, again not fantasy.

I don't see how this is a demonstration of fantasy. Furthermore it was a very widespread experiment with multiple Glitch societies forming at once, an error is bound to happen. If you read the full backstory it explains that the majority of the 'Glitch species' actually advanced well beyond the medieval era and destroyed themselves. The glitch that exist today originated from the very few instances in which they became stuck in a certain time period.

The same reason a man in a big suit of armour is harmed just as easily with a metal sword. Men in the medieval era had metal shells, swords seemed to kill them just fine.

The Florans are carnivorous, many plants have adapted to resemble the sex characteristics of animals for various reasons. The Florans having breasts is not a particular issue, they may exist to put a target at ease before killing and eating them. Again, not fantasy.

 

Aw, have a little suspension of disbelief. But think what you will. You can't change my opinion (or lack thereof) and I can't change yours.

Although, this is a bit rant-y. Ah. You have a thing against the fantastic. Something deeply ingrained. I seriously think you're over-thinking this.

 

This game is science fantasy. They are two different genres.

 

I wouldn't call it science fantasy, mainly because I've yet to see any examples of fantasy in game. I've asked people to show me some examples but it doesn't appear like anyone can find any.

 

Say, what would your definition of "fantasy" be, then?

This seems to be a bit one-sided, though to be fair I'm just skimming.

 

Firstly, a definition of Science Fantasy
A definition offered by Rod Serling holds that "science fiction, the improbable made possible; fantasy, the impossible made probable". The meaning is that science fiction describes unlikely things that could possibly take place in the real world under certain conditions, while science fantasy gives a scientific veneer of realism to things that simply could not happen in the real world under any circumstances

Not normal Fantasy, but it does demonstrate Science Fantasy.

touché

Well, actually The different societies were formed one at a time, each one with different variables.
Today's Glitch originates from the one instance in which they were stuck in the medieval era.

... Hitting a warrior in steel or even iron plate armour would do far less damage to them than hitting a person in fabric clothes, hence the reason why the most effective way to kill a knight is with a hammer or mace.

well, that's an interesting fact. You learn something new every day.

 

Well, for one, you're really really really bad at Evolutionary Biology, because that can absolutely happen.
If you could theoretically revert yourself to a more adaptable ancestor, it'd be surprisingly simple to increase ones intellect from there.
But.
You do really need to read 1984, as most of their race is based upon it.

(And picking and choosing chromosomes is a hell of a lot more complex than breeding back an ancient ancestor; the concept does make sense)

 

It is still a flawed concept, if you're willing to accept it as science fantasy then fine, this is one example. Surely a Science Fantasy game would have more.

Regardless, how is it science fantasy for such a mistake to occur?

You can still kill a man in armour with a sword. Furthermore the example you raised is more a demonstration of how the races are purely cosmetic rather than science fantasy.


EDIT:

You can activate dormant genes, but this wouldn't turn yourself into a previous evolution. To much time has past and too many genes would have been lost. So no, it absolutely cannot happen.

Furthermore you can increase intellect without a physical change, so why would you "revert" yourself at all? (if it was even possible)

The method they show demonstrates some arbitrary tradeoff of physical appearance for intelligence, and its just silly.

EDIT AGAIN:

I don't recall saying anything about picking and choosing chromosomes. Furthermore the method they displayed wasn't backbreeding, so I don't even know why you're bringing it up.

 

One can activate dormant genes but that's small changes. I'm making the assumption they gave the genes of the ancestor race already.
Although.
Dormant genes are complex and unpredictable concept.
Activating a dormant gene in a bird can theoretically change it entirely; claws, scales, non-avian eyes and a change in brain development.
While I agree it's kind of a meh backstory; it is scientifically possible. Activating one small amount of a gene is difficult. Things bringing older traits with them is something that happens in real life. There is the occassional shark born with 12 gills (Though it rarely survives for other reasons) because of the activation of a dormant gene.

 

It isn't possible because it implies an increase of intelligence due to the inducing a genetic mutation in an already living, developed individual that somehow didn't result in the death of said individual on a species wide scale.

Is it possible to increase intelligence genetically? Yes.

Is it possible to activate dormant genes that may cause you to look like a previous evolution (without actually BECOMING that previous evolution)? Yes.

Are the two mutually exclusive? Absolutely, hence my issue with this backstory.

 

Seriously, the definition of Science Fantasy is giving a scientific veneer of realism to things that simply could not happen in the real world under any circumstances. This is exactly what they are doing here.

it's not, I was just correcting you.

Now, as the game isn't released yet, the only things we have to go by are screenshots, streams, etc., and I'm sue that once the game is released there will be more examples, however things like the vines on the outside of floran ships would probably count. Also, I haven't watched any streams so there may be some stuff there.
The best reason that can be given though, is that the games creator, one of the few people that have played it, has stated that it is.

 

Yes, and it is one example. Multiple examples would indicate a science fantasy game, one example would indicate a misunderstanding of a scientific concept in a science fiction game.

Yeah and I've seen most of them, I've not seen anything to indicate science fantasy.

Very well, if thats the case then I'll stand corrected.

The vines on the outside of the ship could be kept alive by mechanisms on the ship for aesthetic purposes. Easily explained.

Hm, not exactly. If J.K Rowling were to start calling Harry Potter a science fiction series, she'd be incorrect. Regardless of being the creator. For now, seeing as the game is in development, we can't be sure that it is or isn't science fantasy. However of what we've seen so far, and the long list of features in game, the only thing that indicates real science fantasy is found in the backstory of a single race.

 

theoretically revert yourself to a more adaptable ancestor-

Activating armchair scientest mode.

Humans.. humans are one of the most adaptable forms of life to roam this earth.. ever. Because we have a great intelligence. Reversing that even if possible would make you less intelligent.. not adaptable. Even physicaly.. adaptation in nature is merely driven by selective pressure. An earlier form is no less adaptable or more given time to adapt to an environment.

Its just overspecialization can pidgonhole things to where there is time and nothing has the traits to survive when sudden changes hit or things better adapted out compete you. Unlike most animals though, we can change outside of generations.. we can wear clothes, we can alter the enviroment, our mind is what seperates us from everything that came before.

Take that away, and we become far, far less adaptable. No dormant gene will EVER make a human smarter, as we have only scaled upward in intelligence. Nothing has been lost.

That all said we know nothing about how the apex evolved, and maybe they did have a .. regressive phase due to selective pressure. Physical skill somehow becoming necessary for survival. Then once that pressure was removed, before losing all intelligence or while back on a slow path towards it, they relearned genetics and applied it to themselfves, while in a state more adapted to physical labor.

Sorry if its spammy, just tossing around ideas.

 

Seriously? It's Tiy's game, I'm pretty sure he'd have a good idea of what Genre it is.
He said it is more Fantasy than Sci-Fi, indicating it would be Science fantasy. That J.K. Rowling example is hilarious in how stupid a reply it is.

 

We have yet to see multiple examples of science fantasy in terms of features and actual in game content, all we have at the moment is VEP and Tiy's word.

Its J.K Rowlings series, and as I said, even if she were to claim it was Science Fiction, she'd be wrong. It is a demonstration of an instance in which the creator can make a claim concerning the genre of their series and be incorrect.

Please, if you think it is a stupid reply, explain to me why that is so.

 

I think you need to study some evolutionary Biology, friend.
It's possible for such a thing to happen.
They would've found out that making themselves smarter ALSO activates that's gene.
And just rolled with it.

 

Evolutionary biology is a part of my course at University. I understand it just fine, friend.

I think you're misunderstanding me, the tradeoff demonstrated indicates that the intelligence is a direct result of the "physical devolution" which is why it is impossible. Intelligence and physical form are not linked traits.

I can accept that they probably manipulated their genes to be smarter. Why, however, would they do so if they didn't understand genetics enough to avoid also activating genes that made them hideous by their own standards? They would have run tests first surely, and found that it caused the physical devolution. If they have the technology to increase their intelligence as such, it wouldn't be such a stretch for them to research for even another decade in order develop a means with no real drawbacks, why didn't they?