Why cheesing is an issue in Starbound but not Terraria.

I appreciate the criticism. The parts in bold, "less practical" and "less desirable" are things that I genuinely believe to be what we need to focus on, but the text following them were mere examples to give people a better idea of what I was talking about. I agree that these examples in particular may not be the best way to go about solving the problem.

 

i guess ill give another way to look at it and be an example

i played a bit smart in my own thoughts using a shield/sword combo and blocking and attacking powerful enemies
when i did get to the one shot =one kill gun nuts i didnt box them in because they were behind a door so instead id open/close the door and back up

gave me enough time to bring them away from other packs of enemies and i waited for the recoil of the gun and swung at them rinse repeat

the time i did "cheese" was when there was numerous rooms full of one-shotters using the prison as a perfect example: climbing up stairs full of guys with hammers and revolvers/snipers and chargers with daggers was insanity so id box out enemies to take them on one-one
untill i bought a shotgun and just sprayed if i seen another person with a sniper

keep in mind this was on planets that was 3 lvls higher than me being around 15
[i have nothing to add but another way to view it so feel free criticize i guess]

 

At this point the game really is not balanced and tuned at all. They are still developing systems, as well as adding new items and content. its very tough to say how things should be done, without having the majority of the items in the base game to see how things play out with various strategies. As it stands right now, getting ranged weapons and some tech makes all fights trivial, not just specific battles. i am kind of waiting to see how the new update works before really getting involved in balancing boss or regular encounters.

With that said, i agree with you that the boss battles need to be revamped, along with the creature generation and minibosses. At minimum bosses and minibosses need to have the ability to clip through terrain, have attacks that destroy terrain on a regular basis, or special attacks that ignore terrain, as well as being far more aggressive for mini bosses and regular mobs in general. the alpha quadrant boss was not difficult at all really, both before he had terrain destroying attacks and after he never used them enough. personally his plasma attacks should probably be AOE, and damage terrain. Out of all three fights i felt the saucer was the best fight overall, with more aspects to manage, both the robot and dragon were more or less non issues, even without cheesing the fight.

 

Yes exactly, the developers put the game into beta because it is truly the only way to properly test things before a general release. Some devs really know what they are going to get when the beta closes (BF3/4), and others do it to steer their own direction (more like this case). I think Starbound has a fairly good idea of what they want to do, but they need to put it out in beta and get our feedback on some of the basics before taking a step back and looking at the big picture again.

 

Can we start reporting this sort of thing as spam yet? It was bad enough having the devs cram that nonsense down your throats multiple updates in advance of the release, Which is why players also jump on the bandwagon I suppose, But as if anyone here isn't already aware of that fact.

Being an alpha that everyone calls a beta doesn't make your game immune from criticism, feedback, Nor does it invalidate anyone's opinion or input on the state of the game, features, or future plans.
Being an unfinished project also doesn't shield you from remarks inherent problems with core elements of your game.

The more people speak up, the better. The more ideas that are presented and improved upon, The better. Everyone who has something to say, says it because they want to see the game grow, improve, and become more enjoyable before the devs become complacent with what they have already done and accept it as good enough. For example:
The majority of the UI issues are problems that everyone could point out right away, Yet how long has the interface been in this poor state and deemed acceptable? The same can be said for the current balance issues that are going to be patched in the near future here thanks to the constructive feedback of the players.
If everyone just sat around and withheld their ideas and opinions because "OH WAIT, its beta and these things will magically fix themselves overtime because the developers are perfect and know everything that everyone is thinking", Then we'll end up with a pretty sad excuse for a finished game wouldn't we?
On topic: the balance changes might do a good deal to reduce the motivation to cheese. If that isn't good enough, then add a feature that makes it impossible to place blocks within X tiles of an active enemy NPC. [crosshair just turns red if you try]

 

im interested in the gun changes because once i got a gun it went from crap in my neck hard to a walk in the park

 

This suggestion has been made before, but it doesn't really fix the problem. Say you have an enemy standing at position 15X 0Y. You cannot place blocks within 15 places of the enemy. Instead, the player, starting at 0X 0Y, builds a wall up to 0X 15Y, creates a ceiling for the monster that spans from 0X 15Y to 30X 15Y, and then proceeds to build down to 30X 0Y. The enemy is now effectively enclosed in a large 30X15 prison, which is a lot of effort but no less than some players would reasonably go through to take down a powerful miniboss. Additionally, 15 is a number used strongly "for the sake of argument", and is actually way too high to be reasonably put into the game. At best, a 3 block limit is the highest reasonable limit I can think of without it being annoying. This also doesn't prevent users from mining, which is an alternative most people seem to overlook. You could just as well dig a hole underneath the monster to trap him just as effectively, and this wouldn't be affected by block placement restrictions.

Now that I've given my criticism, allow me to say that I actually think this is an okay idea. It's just not a fix. If you stopped players from placing blocks super close to monsters, it would make things a little bit more difficult. It ties into my "less practical" approach, which is just what we need to aim for. I simply don't want anyone writing off one simple new game mechanic as the fix-all to a very complicated issue.

 

the truth is, it isn't a fixable issue unless you want to inconvenience the creative aspect of the game, people just seeking to build. Building is always going to be an exploitable aspect to combat considering how fast you can place blocks. But if the amount of time it takes to exploit that aspect isn't worth the reward, the majority of people wont bother. The upcoming balance changes with a simple change to the building mechanic as suggested, I feel would be enough to largely put an end to the "I have to wall in these enemies to fast forward this whole progress thing".

And as far as bosses go, im fine with them having the ability to bust through blocks to get to the player.

 

the whole enemies bursting through blocks was essentially a building nightmare [to other people] and i dont know about other people but to my common sense on anything i usually drag enemies/bosses away from my base to fight them [of course this is why we are talking about this though]

and not to be mean but if a player didnt know this then its a learning experience i learned that the hard way on terraria

 

fighting them with no ranged or magic weapons is a normal play through for me, I dont usually buy ammo anyways (cause im lazy, I easily get the money for it), and I never found pre-hardmode magic very strong

 

A post like yours combined with how responsive the dev team with gives me great faith in Starbound's Beta unlike a few others I've been in recently that I am under NDA on. There is REAL HOPE to make a good game great.

 

Can't wait till the storyline kicks in. Everyone has no ship and has no manipulator tool. Everything must be placed with hand. I'm also pretty sure the manipulator is meant to me a legendary item later on....

 

we dont get a free ship?

 

This just out...

You can't attack through walls anymore... =D gg, well played... Tiy wins!!!

He posted the changelog on IRC (supposedly, got it from Omni's Twitch chat).

 

Pretty sure we start on our own racial planet and get exiled out of the base to find a way off the planet.

 

Well, technically it could change. But for now, Tiy wins =P

Also, at a moment there ^ that guy sounds like that unintelligible Batman parody (that the Joker can't understand)

 

Thanks for the link to that changelog, now I don't have to reply with "Why don't we wait for the rebalance update to come out before voicing our concerns of what's already supposed to be tossed out the airlock?"

Also, "New mining tools" DRILLS!!!! YUS! *fist pump* Now to wait for Mining Probes.

 

Are you sure it's drills? I never heard that.

 

Was watching the dev stream while he was coding, and I saw some code for a Copper Drill. Description for it was "Copper Drill! Now that's more like it!"