White Knighting and Whining

I just wanted to say, it's absolutely possible to defend CF and SB without being a "white knight" much in the same way it's possible to disagree with CF openly and not be "whining". People, it is our obligation to treat each other respectfully and to try and be accepting of others opinions. Acceptance and agreement are two absolutely different things. Disagree as much as you like, openly talk about your feelings on things, but don't immediately assume the other party it inherently wrong and beyond redemption. If you want to post things, you have to assume people will have juxtaposed views.

That being said, let's all work to make this forum a less spite-filled and angry place.

Also how awesome would it be if they added a "White Knight" rare Glitch NPC that had the CF logo on it's chest. It could scream "WE CAN DO NO WRONG!" and "Stop whining!" as it charges at you.

(as a person that is routinely referred to as a white knight, I'm absolutely for the satire)

 

There will always be strife until the point of contention becomes extinguished. In this case, it's until the developers show an end product to their progress. From there on, other points of contention will emerge; some people will say the final result is not up to their standards after handing Chucklefish the amount of money they've been given. Others will be perfectly happy, and go on about their lives.

The only real way to reduce the fighting is to keep both sides of the extreme in check, while promoting more civil discussion. Loaded questions, hostile insults, threats, the inability to understand a simple concept, all of that should be frowned upon. People need to stop humoring those they disagree with and simply drop the subject when both sides are so bullheaded as to not understand or even bother to acknowledge each others points. The vast majority of posts that I've seen involving the fighting haven't existed to inform the average user, but rather, to persuade and have one dominant opinion tower over another so that it can be embraced as fact.

I'm very jaded when it comes to the execution of this concept in a large community, but I will not deny that it is a perfectly plausible pursuit.

 

Oh I whole-heartedly believe this post will eventually devolve into the usually pit of sadness and fire that most do. If one person takes something positive away from this, it was worth it.

 

I love when people,knowing my view point of Chucklefish's PR , automatically assume everything I say in a discussion is a snide remark bashing Chucklefish for something.

The hostility of these forums can be absolutely toxic at times.

 

Extremas like whiteknights and how you call them "whiners" are omnipresent and inavoidable sadly... human nature is very disgusting when it comes to creation of extremas... well not only disgusting in that...

 

A lot of people here and everywhere else in life aren't always well-informed. By this, I mean they are very aware of what they want. "I want the game to be out soon!" However, they are NOT aware of what is required for their desire to come to fruition.

Start: Team is fragmented. Updates are not fast. CF thought they could do better but discovered they could not. People are unhappy that updates are slow.

Middle: CF identifies that gathering all devs into one office will boost productivity, and allow them to produce faster, more stable updates. But this requires significant downtime. People were unhappy that updates were slow, now are very unhappy that updates aren't happening at all.

Now: Team is together. Captain Planet is summoned. Updates have not been sent, because (duh) things take time. CF has increased their acceleration, but their velocity is still slow, because they just started speeding up. People were very unhappy that updates didn't happen at all, and now are extra unhappy because "omg, team together, still no updates".

End: X time into the future, update is released, people are busy playing it. People were very unhappy, now are some level of satisfied (for the time being). CF buys themselves breathing room until the next update, but there is still the expectation of quick updates that has only been reinforced by CF's messages even during the moving process.

Most people (if not all) are unaware of all the things going on, because none of us is CF, and none of us is in their London office. Some people are willing to accept information that bridges the gaps in understanding, and may even change their unhappiness to reluctant acceptance. "It's not ideal, but I guess they have pretty good reasons. Still, I'd like it to be better."

Some people are...not willing to accept information, because they know what they know, and you can't change their mind. Roar. This isn't about an age group, by the way, because you see this in all age groups, all walks of life, and all types of personalities.

There's also the type of people that only notice the things they don't have. "I want faster updates!" Okay, here's faster updates with very little content. "I want real content!" Okay, updates are slower to get real content. "I want faster updates with real content!" "..."

There's also the type of people that look at those of a different opinion, and believe it is their duty to enlighten the ignorant or simply crush the other people in an internet debate. I figure you can try once or twice to help someone understand what they don't currently get, but after that? Wasting your breath, and not helping anyone.

TLDR: The forums are a fascinating case study of human interaction. Or a madhouse. But, I repeat myself.

 

I think the best course of action is just for everyone to bite their tongue, take a breath and wait. Taking a moment before ranting can save alot of hassle and hurt feelings on both sides.

 

cmon another one, all these do is stir up a hornets nest.

 

Did you actually read the post?

 

As have I, but his post,this post , your post and Maxwell's post add nothing to the conversation. Basically it's one big derail.

 

Yes and sadly it will still do what I said. I agree with what you said though, but their have been multiple threads like this in the past days alone.

 

Also how awesome would it be if they added a "White Knight" rare Glitch NPC that had the CF logo on it's chest. It could scream "WE CAN DO NO WRONG!" and "Stop whining!" as it charges at you.

I'm not sure if anyone's read this, so I'll give my 2 cents:

While I don't think the Chucklefish logo is too necessary (so-called "White Knights" are prevalent far beyond the Forums), this snippet would add a humorous touch about social ideology to Starbound. Wouldn't mind seeing it.

 

The hardest part about being a mod is dealing with the "whiners." People seem to think that the mods are censoring people, which is really the furthest from the truth. The problem I've noticed is that some people really seem to think that the $15 they paid entitles them to to be very demanding in a very off-putting and aggressive way. Those are the only posts we delete, because we really want to foster a friendly community. Unfortunately, that leads to those people publicly crying censorship, and the cycle continues.

Just wanted to put in my two cents.

 

Not saying keep complements in check, keep people bashing critics in check.

 

It is pretty hard to break the rules when complimenting someone. Criticizing people opens up a lot more room to be mean. I personally don't like forums that are just a big hugbox, because honest criticism really is good for a game. Unfortunately lately a lot of the criticism has gone beyond that into rule breaking levels.

The main thing I can stress to anyone on any side is that if you see a post breaking the rules, please by all means report it. We honestly volunteer our time just to keep this a nice place to post. If someone on whatever side of the argument is being mean we'll take care of it.

 

A problem I have noticed is that forums are for debate, not arguing. A lot of posters seem to be looking for an argument from the start.
Both extremes, the polar opposites, are guilty of this. A 'knight' will violently defend against any perceived 'criticism', while 'haters' will attack any hint of 'love'.
Those who have a legitimate issue to address (good or bad) get buried in the mess, or they get labeled & attacked.
The mods are left to clean up the mess. I can't say I've seen any real censorship from the mods.

This brings up a couple of points...

Does it look like many take the time to read much of any post, let alone the OP?
Do they take the time to actually digest what was said?
Do they ask for clarification?

No.

Many are too interested only in what they have to say, after quickly skimming. Then they get defensive that you didn't read what they meant, regardless of what they said.
Many don't read 'the rules', or the guides on posting.
And you get those with an agenda, the baiters, the comedians, the semantics nazis, so much derailment, etc. ad nauseam... eventually, whatever the original topic was, is lost.

A little civility and an extra moment of thought could go a long way. Or not, some train wrecks & meltdowns are fascinating to watch, albeit, a bit morbid.

 

"White Knight" generally refers to a guy being stupidly defensive of a girl, therefore, I believe that the correct term in this case would be "Chuckle Knight".

 

Don't get it, are girls referenced as white.