What the point of pixel penalty on death ?

Well said. I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a better alternate penalty though.

 

Very well. With alternative game mode. Problem should be solved.

 

I do think that one big improvement would be for you to drop your pixels (in some form that means they won't vanish, like a gravestone) so you can later recover them. That's how most other modern games that want a death penalty do it (such as Dark Souls and Terraria.) The advantage to this is that it makes dying more "fun" because it poses an interesting new challenge rather than just slapping you with a punitive penalty -- you now have to get back to where you died and recover what you dropped, which usually means fighting whatever just killed you (or navigating the area that was just threatening you, etc.)

This satisfies both sides, to an extent, because it helps the game remains fun even when you're losing. I mentioned this in a past thread, but one of the quintessential hard games out there, Dwarf Fortress, does a good job satisfying both camps by adopting the catchphrase "losing is fun" -- the idea is that the game is hard, but that when you lose (or even die) it should result in something interesting happening, something that leads the story (or the gameplay or whatever) in an interesting direction. In that game you get to explore the ruins of your fortress as an adventurer or resettle it, say.

In most Roguelikes (or Roguelikelikes, like Rogue Legacy) dying is accompanied by a chance to start over with a totally new strategy -- those game deliberately present you with interesting choices right at the start; because the early game is enjoyable, dying becomes a chance to try something new rather than just repeating previous stuff. (In Rogue Legacy, dying can also be fun because it's a chance to spend the gold you earned in that run.)

"You lose 30% of your money, the end" isn't so interesting.

One alternative idea might be to do this:

First, significantly decrease interstellar travel costs, at least over short distances. Maybe also add a 'slow travel' when you have no fuel. This is necessary to support the second part.

Second, when you die, you don't lose anything immediately, but you can no longer visit that planet for a certain period of time. You have to go elsewhere instead. (This is why travel costs have to be reduced a bit, because the travel cost is now part of the death cost and it's too steep for that at the moment; it also requires some way to either get more fuel or move to anther planet while out of fuel and stranded, unable to reach the planet. But this can be developed interestingly, too.) Of course the real 'cost' for dying is that you have to explore a new world. The explanation could be some limitation in your cloning technology -- bluh bluh bluh quantium entanglement, federation safety regulations, etc etc etc.

Additionally, when you die, you leave behind a marker on that planet... where a zombie-you sometimes revives! Your old self wasn't totally dead, bluh bluh bluh. No it's not really a zombie, it's your previous incarnation, injured and driven mad by the quantum copying etc. Possibly have planets track the total number of player deaths on them and change in various spooky ways as that number raises.

In multiplayer, you can return to that planet early if your zombie-self is defeated.

The idea is to make it so dying forces you onto a different (but still fun) track, in a way that makes dying something players want to avoid but which still leads to an interesting (and therefore fun) result when it happens.

 

that actually sounds awesome, I would love to fight my normal self (im already driven mad due to reasons no mortal can under stand, and im mortal)

 

The idea about leaving behind a tombstone or similar item that when broken drops the amount of pixels lost from death is a decent one. I wouldn't be keen on the rest, especially stopping people from revisiting the planet, I don't think that's the way to go at all.

 

Anyway, I still see no reason why I cannot skip the night without go back to the ship.

I do not want to lose my progress to explore the whole planet so I do not go back to the ship at night.

Using Flashlight make me unable to fight or mine.

Is there any item in this that provide light without hold it in the hand ? Actually, I am using torch but I feel it is a waste.

 

There is a lantern on a stick, it's not a lot of light, but it equips on your back. Unlocked after using the first starmap, craftable at the work bench I think (cannot play starbound right now to check due to computer issues)

 

there is, if I remember right you can craft it in t2 and its a back item, doesnt give off much light but it works
forgot the name (dont use it much recently)

 

Well then there would be no point in living right?

 

and what do you think are torches for? the only reason for torches is lighting the shafts you dig. and maybe a few for you house. i am very sorry but i think you dont understand the game at all

besides the fact that those games not nearly comparable the only thing you are telling us is that you are a bad player and that you dont like any challenge at all. i am glad you are not old enough to know old games. the ones with a big bad GAME OVER when you lost all your lives. those games in which you didnt heal up to full health just by hiding for 10 second.. the ones were you couldnt save anytime and everywhere...

the ones were you actually had to play the game and get better while doing so.. back in the days when the games were not dumbed down for completly incompetent casual players. so that they dont need to cry anymore cos they lost their last life
and dumbing down mario, or making it easier, is because of ppl like you. just admit it: most modern players are horrible at gaming.. no skill, no balls, nothing..
so i am very sure someone like you will never be able to beat super meat boy, they bleed pixels, ghost and gobliins or the old super mario games.. never ever would you achieve anything in any game as long it isnt served on a silver plate

great idea, but believe me: ppl like XaoG would still complain about their 300 lost pixel. he would even start to complain because he died again while on his way back and he lost 200 more pixels and his last "gravestone" disapeared

 

Well, I'll admit something: You sound like a pretentious douche.

I'm sorry, but you really do. Instead of listening to his points, you just insulted him and pulled out the "gamers these days ugghhhh" card.

 

what points? all i hear is: i dont want a penalty cos i suck.

and also i am right with modern gamers like him. games nowadays dont have any challange at all and as soon as there is even a little challenge (and i am not talking about starbound cos there arent any challenges)
someone starts to cry. in modern games all you have to do is to die and you will reach the end anyways. its what gaming industry teached those ppl cos they want their games being easy enought to be played by 5 yr olds to make more money. most players dont even know how rewarding it is to beat something because you got better.. all they know is steam achievment 3566 you turned on your gaming device successfully....

no pain no gain...

yeah and this gaiden screenshot would be a picture of a game modern gamers most likely would never finish. just like contra or turrican or super mario land..or gods..

but it doesnt matter. i will bypass such threads in the future and try to find a discussion were it is really about making the game better instead of making it easier than it already is. with a little luck we wont reach a stage in which i just can sit in front of my TV watching the game playing itself...

 

I've played many modern games and I really think this issue of games being too easy is grossly exaggerated.

The reason games were hard back then is because if they weren't, they could be beaten in a matter of minutes. If the technology existed back then that allowed for high-fidelity games like we have right now, I'm pretty sure they would be exactly the game. So please, take your holier-than-thou attitude out of this conversation.

 

what games are you talking about? casual triple a games? so games have to be easy because they look better and maybe have more levels?
so i have to heal up while hiding in modern shooters instead of making it to the next medi-pack? so all enemies have to line up in 1 row in SP fps like bf4 and cod.. yeah high fidelity.
so modern games have to tell me which button to press to take cover all the time on screen otherwise i would forget? so games like rayman need to have unlimeted lives instead of giving you extra lives at a fixed amount of achieved scores or by collecting them?

for me modern games arent challenging at all and dieing has become meaningless.. oh i died.. who cares i died a thousand times already and i still have endless more tries left...
you dont have to practise to get better nothing... just keep repeating until you were lucky enough to beat the enemy..

thats it. nothing more nothing less and also explains phenomena like rage quiting and screaming, cursing kids in nearly every TS channel...

 

I find the penalty to be a little annoying without a early game means to store pixels, but the penalty is needed for challenge. To make surviving worth it, rather than just killing yourself for a free hunger bar, heal, and warp.

I am a casual gamer, I don't like games being too hard, but without a reason to get better I find the game a waste. I always start a game on the default difficulty, I get good, I up the difficulty. Easy enough right? I avoid dropping the difficulty if I can even. Why? Because I prefer to know I beat a game because I am good, not because I zerged it. Sadly most developers don't feel to encourage this.

Most people I know these days say I suck at a game because I don't spam cheap tactics, don't use some all powerful easy to get weapon, or I simply refuse to P2W. I aim for over powered, while earning it the hard and slow way like I had to when I was younger, rather than taking shortcuts. Being good at a game to me means being skilled enough to walk through the game with bare minimum gear. Most modern gamers think having the best gear makes you good.

I remember when winning in a game was 80% skill and 20% gear. Now it is almost all gear, with a few people without a life gearing up in the early games then picking on new players so much they don't have a chance to get any better at the game or gain the needed gear, making most games unenjoyable for people like me who play for fun and don't find fun in cutting corners, while many people seem to play purely to pick on those weaker than them. Similar to the classic school yard bully, who wasn't too smart or skilled at anything so he picked on talented smarter kids. Those guys are now in games, which encourage gear+money=win over the old school skill+dedication+patience=win.

This is a sad thing when this comic:



Is the norm of most games.

As for how to fix the penalty if at all? I find the penalty needs to be softened yes, with dropped pixel capsules or something, with about a 5% permanent loss of the drop. This softens the punishment letting you recoup some, but still prevents zerging the game while thinking "oh, I'll get it all back who cares if I die."

 

Modern games, as a whole, haven't become more hand-holdy. You guys are just unreasonably expecting everyone to like the super-hardcore way you play, then getting mad when you find out that not everyone likes to be frustrated to the point of throwing their console/PC through a window.

 

lol you are a funny one i have to admit. super hardcore? starbound super hardcore? 30% pixel loss in a game in which you will drown in unneeded ores/bars, which you can melt in the refinery, as soon as you have finished tier 1 = super hardcore?
you have to be kidding calling that super hardcore.. i dont like my games super hardcore.. i always play at normal difficulty levels.. but i still want a lil challenge and most of the new games offer none at all...
AC series.. nah no challenge at all, bf series? no challenge at all. so no it isnt about super hardcore.. its about at least a little challenge instead of steam achievments for being able to start my game 10 times

so sorry, we really live on different planets if you call starbound super hardcore like it is right now...

and the worst: all those kids think they are pro gamers, need their dmg-meters to have a look at their gear depenadant score and compare their e-pen, but as soon as it gets challenging they quit and whine...

so yeah i prefer games like Dark Souls even if it made me angry a thousand times, even if i had to quit after 30 minutes playing cos i wasnt able to beat that damn boss. better getting angry a thousand times and feel that much happier after i finally did instead of feeling nothing for 6 hrs because everything in modern games are meaningless...

and no: not every game has to be like dark souls but some more challengiing battles in AC wouldnt be that bad, and also some consequences if i fail over and over again instead of no impact at all

 

I agree that gear severely over powers skill in most games to day, but with enough skill you can still do things
my example of skill over gear: I had just hit lvl 30 on WoW with my dwarf monk. on the 3rd quest in the area was a lvl 35 undead rouge being REALLY annoying and stealing all my kills, so I challenged him to a dual
I was a new lvl 30 against a lvl 35 who, at the best was a new lvl 35 or at worst had the best lvl 35 gear, either way a massive challenge because all I know of rouges is they turn invisible. the dual started and him being a rouge turned invisible, I aoed him out of hiding. after the hardest solo fight I had so far (im at lvl 90 gear score 495 now) I managed to out skill him, but only by knowing what does what and and all my abilities interact with each other, and by using my ONLY healing ability at every possible second
pretty sure he stated swearing in the chat at me after that, but alliance and horde characters cant speak to each other. then im sure he rage quit.
I would trade my raiding gear and my professions for a fight of that challenge again, not even winning just that much fun!

 

Never did I say that Starbound was super hardcore.