What do you think about the Tier System ? (The Sandbox is no Sandbox)

Well...I dont know. Cant get used to this Tier Level System.

Do we really need this artifical progress limitation ? I think no. In a Sandbox/Open World Game I would like to go Exploring and improve with the Time.
In Starbound it feels more like Grinding. (Grinding for Material for Items that have no other use as to summon a Boss)

Main Point of Tiers and Endbosses are to prevent Players from jumping straight to the best Planets and craft the best Weapons/Armor etc.
But this System feels "artificial", and hinders me in my Playstyle.

Why not let the improvement come through natural progress ?

We need better Tools to gain acces to better Materials, and we need better Workbenches etc. But the better Materials are deeper down. So we need better armor etc. to reach them. This Way we improve our Equipment Step by Step and at some Point we are equipped with the best stuff.
You can balance the progression speed with complexity of crafting, availability of some materials, difficult of Monsters, availability of Recipes etc.

Recipes could be just found in Chests, researched from Items, bought from Vendors.

Even Bosses could be there, waiting to be found on some Planets like Minibosses. But if a Boss is on a Planet he attacks you after beaming Down, till you got rid of him.
If you are not good enough equipped, your fault. But I want to have the option to go there...even with starter Equippment.


Whats your Opinion on this ?

 

Isn't what you just said exactly what's in place?

"In Starbound it feels more like Grinding." - "We need better Tools to gain acces to better Materials, and we need better Workbenches etc. But the better Materials are deeper down. So we need better armor etc. to reach them. This Way we improve our Equipment Step by Step and at some Point we are equipped with the best stuff."

Your suggestion was pretty much exactly what's already in place... and requires grinding.

"Recipes could be just found in Chests, researched from Items, bought from Vendors." - "Even Bosses could be there, waiting to be found on some Planets like Minibosses. But if a Boss is on a Planet he attacks you after beaming Down, till you got rid of him. If you are not good enough equipped, your fault. But I want to have the option to go there...even with starter Equippment."

Recipes are in Chests, or from vendors just not tiered items. Which planet in the entire procedurally generated sector would you put the boss on? Why not summon him?

So you want to skip the step of having to grind to make the boss summoning tool, but keep the grinding of equipment so you can get to the boss earlier, but less equiped? Maybe I misunderstand. Please try to word it differently, but I don't see your change as 'value adding'. It's just a slight change from what's already present.

 

The game isn't meant as a true sandbox title. It is intended as a survival RPG in a sandbox-like environment.

 

Well the tiering system is technically kind of 'standard'. In minecraft you can't get the higher ores, like gold or diamond without first getting a Iron Pickaxe, you can still take the minute or so to mine it out with Stone but you don't get anything for it. This was more noticeable in Terraria, as you couldn't mine Hellstone, Ebonstone, Dungeon Bricks and obsidian with anything before Nightmare, everything before that was just pickaxe power. You needed Shadow Scale to make the Nightmare pickaxe, which only dropped from the Eater of Worlds. At that point you have access to all the ores pre-hard mode until hard mode. The hard mode ores needed a specific drill to get to them and so on.

Though to be more on topic and to be honest, I think the only thing that needs a change is the Inactive Robot. You only need to craft a single item for the Alpha boss, and one for Gamma, I haven't been past Gamma yet. Meanwhile for the Robot you need a brain, and then craft the arms, legs, chest, and head for the robot, and then the robot itself. Which seems excessive compared to the DIstress Beacon and Gamma's decoy princess.

 

Isn't what you just said exactly what's in place?

Um Nope. Ok let me explain.
I want to start a new Galaxy, a new character. Sure the new character has to find Ores and stuff like it is now. Thats the "OK" aspect of Grind ^^. But if my new Character wants to start building a Base with a Farm and Animals....I have to defeat 4 senseless Bosses to do so. Suddenly I have to follow a pregression Path, grind for Staff that I dont want etc. Only because I need Tier 4 to start taming or so.

We all know Minecraft I think. Dont you see the difference in progression between Starbound and MC for example ? In MC there are no artifical borders. You could go with Leather Armor to the Nether. You shouldnt, but you could.

This makes my Point a little clearer ?


And about the Post before, Minecraft.
Sure, I first need a wooden Pickeaxe, then Stone, then Iron, then Diamond. But you need this stuff anyway.
And I can just start and build a house or a farm with nothing but starter equipment.

In Starbound it feels much more Cutoff from Game Content with the Tier System.

 

But you couldn't go to the nether before first getting a diamond pick and prior to that an iron pick unless you cheesed it with buckets. Minecraft does have a progression to it but it is fairly minimal since it is a pretty terribly designed game.

 

I'm happy with the way it is, but I would probably enjoy a less tiered system as well. If you're planning on playing the same character for a long period of time then progressive tiers really become sort of pointless to you after the short time it takes you to get to the top anyway.

If it was up to me I'd probably not increase math/dps/armor etc based on tiers, but rather focus on lateral advancement/access to desirable alternatives for tiers. These techs are T1, these are T2 (kinda does this already I think)? Rifles are T2, grenade launchers T4, armor that increases energy regen T1, armor that increases health T3.. blah blah.. random examples.... but that's just me.

All in all fast advancement through tiers is really not a whole lot different than no tiers I guess.

 

I can agree with that. It is a bit excessive, but maybe it's that the difficulty in progressing isn't scaled correctly? The first boss summoning tool should be reasonably difficult for a player to achieve at their current threshold, I think they achieved this with the beacon. Then the next boss should take more effort than the last, but not blow the bank.

I think players need to feel like the level of difficulty to move to the next sector is proportional to the difficulty of the next sector (like alpha hard = beta easy). I don't mean that summoning the bosses should take more time than necessary, but should require more effort than the last in a sequential pattern. Higher difficulty sectors require higher complexity components and more challenging bosses.

To put it another way: what is reasonable for a player to have to spend to move to the next sector given its difficulty?

 

So Minecraft is bad design coz it offers me the Full Game Content within maybe 20-30 min. if I rush traight for it ? So I can enjoy the Open World and building things.
How long does it take in Starbound to reach Sector X ?

 

It's simple, but not terribly designed. What he's saying is he doesn't like the gating system to progression. Minecraft places no artificial barrier in front of you so the progression is less noticeable. If you're a busy little bee you can be sitting on enough silver and gold to make those respective armor sets before ever leaving your first planet, but you won't be able to without using the appropriate star map upgrades.

I agree with this but I haven't come to the forums to request a change because I know at this point of beta the progression could be radically different from one upgrade to the next. I have a feeling they'll make it the way I want to see it soon. Or maybe they have a vision for a better method. Only time will tell.

 

Right now there is just too much stuff that I'm forced to do, like doing boss fights that can only be won by cheating. Since this is beta I won't complain, but I would also *suggest* to rethink that you can throw away sector after sector and everything you've built in it after you beat the boss.
Having build a tunnel through a complete planet, what I did yesterday, that's an accomplishment. Jumping and running for five minutes straight to shoot an ufo with a bow, that's just plain stupid. But after I've done that, I can leave my planet tunnel behind because there is nothing in that sector worth left for me.

 

I agree with the OP in that the game would be much better if not restricted by boss fights. I think the player should be able to progress to subsequent sectors at their own pace

EDIT: Originally i thought the game wouldn't even have sectors, you just travel to random planets and they are random difficulties. I am a bit disappointed that isn't the case. To me this would be the most interesting system and would make planet searching more excting

 

Maybe your english is better then mine Clash, but Yes, this.

And no I dont want the Devs to Change it, I just was curious about your Opinions on that.

 

Well yes, that is a pretty terrible game. The game needs to pace out its content and make use of everything it has available to fill out the value to all of its content. Much of what is in Minecraft is an afterthought.

There are countless of terribly designed elements to Minecraft. In fact there are very few things that are well thought out features. Starbound paces the player so they don't rush through and miss elements of the game. Do not forget that the full game content is not finished yet so the tiers will be a little better filled out on release. Not the least of these matters is the main quest line.

 

for all we know , we're beta testing the foundation of "STORY MODE" , I'd reserve complaints about the sandbox system until the next phase or the phase closer to release

 

I really don't like the tier system as it's presently implemented. It's just a load of needless busywork that doesn't really bring any benefits. No soon as you move to one planet all the mobs get tougher, and you just repeat the same old grind with a different set of armour and tools. I'd like to see more meaningful progression instead of reskins of the same principle stuff.

By that I mean in the beginning, it should be impossible to break through certain types of material, making progression to drills (and presumably in future matter manipulators) meaningful and giving reason to return to older planets (access previously impentrable depths), providing not just harder hitting weapons, but weapons with distinct dynamics. For example progressing from throwing weapons, to bows, to basic ballistic weapons, to automatic ballistic weapons, to basic energy weapons to advanced energy weapons. Enemies shouldn't need to scale so vastly, it should be about progression of functionality, NOT progression of bigger and bigger numbers.

The current system feels like it wants to be world of warcraft, instead of world of minecraft

 

Houston, we really have a fanboy-problem here.

Right. This is beta. Who is more helpful to the developers: Those sharing their thoughts and ideas, or those who are running around telling people that this is beta in every single thread of this kind?

 

umm why ? the game is advertised a story driven adventure with sandbox elements ...

 

Personally I love the tiered system and hope it continues BUT what needs to be done are things to reinforce things such as:

(1) Base Building: You should be encouraged (but not required) to make a base in each Sector. This should be a pretty large structure which NPCs and merchants will like to inhabit over time. There should also be a reason to return.

(2) Outpost Building: You should be encouraged (but not required) to make an outpost perhaps in each system.

That's just how I feel

 

So... care to name game elements we could miss while rushing to X sector? Armor painting?

QFT.