Thoughts on Tiy's thoughts (Chucklefish Blog WITH SPOILERS!)

So, here's a link to Chucklefish's new blog, where Tiy's first post has been to discuss what he would like the game progression path to be (describing what ores/crafting stations can be made and when, plus materials and stuff), but also generally how he would like combat to be balanced (armor tier compared with monster tier = some predictable # of hits before you die, and also gun balance).

Remember, the thread title contains the word SPOILERS, conveniently and humbly entered in the "all caps" font, so please don't point out that I'm talking about spoilers.

Here's some thoughts on the game progression path:

If the refinery exists then as it does now (trade ores for pixels), then my very initial reaction is that this is a workaround that has long outlived its usefulness.

If pixels are very hard to come by in the early game, the long-term solution is to make pixels easier to come by in the early game, NOT to add incentives for players with primitive digging tools to dig more and travel more for small cash gains. Increase monster cash drops, add some rare antiques that can be sold for money, implement "Selling 'acquired' weapons to vendors" or renting, or implement craftable "antiques" that can be sold for money. Encourage players to play the way they want (exploring, fighting, farming, crafting, building, etc) and not simply say "The best way to get money is to smelt 300 iron ore" or "Did you find diamonds? Yay, you're rich like Scrooge McDuck!"

Now that I've somewhat calmed down about it, I think this could be decent, if paired with the above-mentioned ways to get money. For players who want to dig and dig and dig, this allows them a way to gain pixels and progress through the game. I do hope that the risk vs reward is not heavily slanted in favor of the refinery (diamonds = pixels, everything else = crap) the way it is right now in the game, but I also hope that you don't get 5 pixels per T2 ore so that "Dig only" players aren't required to do the Korean MMO grind.

The order listed is Stone Pickaxe -> Silver Pickaxe -> Gold Drill -> Platinum Drill -> Durasteel Mining Thing -> ??? (probably MM upgrades?). You get approximately one "mining tool" upgrade per tier, meaning that Gold Drill is T3, Durasteel Mining Thing is T5, etc.

Not too much to say here, I like that diamond pickaxes aren't traps (copper drill > diamond pickaxe), and the process seems smoother. Plus, it gives you something to do with your gold/silver now that they aren't used for armor. I dunno, not a lot to say here.

I suspect that "Ship upgrade 4" can be unlocked out of order, because it requires silver, as opposed to ship upgrade 2, which requires gold. Anyway, I like skyrails, so I'm okay with this (as long as ship upgrade 4 can be done before ship upgrade 2).

I don't think I like this (viewed from a Stable Release point of view), because early game is where pixel loss hurts the most. With the refinery being unlocked in T1 (only requires iron), I'm not sure what the point is in having the pixel compressor unlocked later.

Yes, it's likely that players in T1/T2 won't have enough pixels to make 10k voxels, but the refinery allows for a pixel source of income and also can be used to store them safely. Why not allow the pixel compressor to also be created at the same time, allowing for multiple ways to store pixels?

Players are most likely to die early in the game, before they understand the combat system and how to find a playstyle that is enjoyable but also effective. Knowing that, the best protections against death penalties should be in the beginning, but then get phased out near endgame, when players should know the system fairly well and be able to handle more risk. I don't like the idea that protection vs death penalties or mitigation of death penalties doesn't happen until halfway through the game unless pixel requirements are MUCH lower early on, having been built in with the assumption that players will die a lot and thus not have a lot of pixels stored up.


Moving on from speculation about how things might end up working, here's the stuff about combat balance.

Code:

* balance armor and health stats so:
if monster level = armor level > Take 7 monster bites to die
if monster level = armor level +1 > Take 3 monster bites to die

Not a lot to say here, I think this is fine. You won't get immediately killed upon entering a new sector (3 hits), but I also hope that enemies do NOT spawn in groups of 3, as that very well could lead to one-hit deaths.

Code:

* balance energy stats so:
if gun level = armor level = monster level > be able to shoot long enough to kill 1.5 / 2 monsters (assuming no misses)
if staff level = armor level > allow two staff shots before 0 energy

So, here's where I have plenty of feedback.

I don't like that guns can only kill 1.5-2 monsters if no misses, if guns exist as they currently do now. This heavily discourages the use of rapid-fire guns and shotguns, because you can't hit every single bullet with an Avian assault rifle, nor land every hit with a shotgun. Unless you want shotguns to be only used in close-range with the reach of a knife, I think that there are specific types of guns that require special rules.

Just like in the current Stable release, this encourages players to use explosive ammo (less chance to miss) and sniper rifles (hard to miss due to fast bullet speed). If your gun only fires once per 3 seconds, you make sure every shot counts. Having a system that "requires" you to land every hit or else switch to another weapon is a bad idea when you have guns that encourage "spray and pray" or suppression fire.

This heavily discourages the use of double- or triple-split ammo, because you can't land all 2-3 bullets unless you're at point blank range...and if you're there, the bullets don't even split. This ammo only punishes people for using it, because it's never more effective than regular ammo and it's oftentimes less effective.

This also will run into problems if enemies ever group up into more than pairs, as guns would not be able to mow down any of the 3 enemies (due to bullets hitting only a single target, damage would be distributed somewhat amongst all enemies, leaving 3 wounded creatures that still do full damage to you). Again, this encourages the use of explosive ammo, as it can address both weaknesses of guns (single target, accuracy issues).

I believe that Nightly builds have implemented a "backtrack" feature that makes players walk slower when backpedaling. That's cool, so that it prevents infinite kiting. However, has a stun/root/snare/knockback been added in place, so that gun users can survive long enough for the 1.5-2 enemies to actually die from a tier-equivalent gun that isn't a rocket launcher? Having an Alien-style Assault Rifle is cool, until you realize that you need 5 seconds to kill a tier-equivalent enemy. You can't stay away for 10 seconds, so you might as well just not use the gun at all. Use something that drains your energy and does a big punch and then switch to a weapon without the hefty limitations of guns.
/rant

Anyway, what are your thoughts?

 

They said "Starbound 1.0". Does this mean we're not going through the beta stages anymore, or is it another word for Stage 2?

 

I don't think they've explicitly stated what they mean by that. They might mean "1.0 is feature complete and ready for Stage 2, but does not include all balancing and is not fleshed out", or they might mean "1.0 = release = end of Stage 3 = we're done".

I really would like it if they use the same terms, so that those words actually mean something. Here, we've got different terminology going on, like "Stage 1" or "1.0" or "Release" or "Release Candidate". No one outside of CF really knows what CF means when they use these words, which is kinda fueling all the speculation and also some tension.

*Edit*
From reading his thoughts on "What must be done before 1.0", I suspect that 1.0 = End of Stage 3. That's a long list of things, so I'm pretty sure they're not going to all be in the next Stable Release.

Also, he gave an estimate! I like the distinction between "We are aiming for" and "It might be..." however. Not because weasel words, but because this is protected honesty. They are aiming for this year, but they reserve the right to be wrong again. Realistic, but hopeful.

 

This post sounds like it's over analyzing a little, am I the only one who sees a small dev team trying to create a product that is a little too big to be done quickly?

EDIT: Not trying to play White knight here, sue me if it turns out that way, but I don't see what is being accomplished by threads like this that are asking for release dates and asking the devs to change what they've worked on.

 

Maybe.

To be honest, I was just curious. I honestly don't care what they call it, I'll play it whenever that big new update comes out...if I'm not already occupied by Borderlands 2...

 

Their dev team isn't nearly the size of a AAA studio's team, but they're trying to put out very comparable games (if not a better game, due to lack of sequel/prequel/copy). I think they realized that "quickly" went out the window long ago, so now they're settling in for the long haul, and doing big stuff. Hopefully the community can understand and accept this, too, since we all want the game to be awesome.

I'm not asking for a release date, merely pointing out that they somewhat gave one. There are a lot of threads asking for release dates, so it seemed like something people would want to know. Maybe then it'll stop all the duplicate threads and all the "ETA?" questions in the news posts.

For combat balance, unless we're talking about adding knockback or another game-changing mechanic, this is simply a numbers change. Or, a change to certain gun parameters (IF (fire_rate > 4.0 OR type = shotgun) THEN dps := dps + 5*tier). While changes to their plan require more time (since they already have a plan and would need to review it) I do believe fairly strongly that guns are not in a good place right now, and I don't think this small comment about gun balance would solve that.

 

Mostly shuffling things around is I can really see. I look at it in more detail later.

But I'm still opposed to lantern on a stick as good as it is being so low tech or not requiring a high tier boss.

But let me get this straight? Arctic gear is unlocked at tier 1, but cold planets are locked until biome tier 4?

 

So, they are indeed (thinking about) developing a second game, even when SB is still in Beta. I also find somewhat shabby that Tiy does not read post on this forums. Why open a new blog to post interesting info, when there is already: 1- Official front page news, 2- Official forums, 3- Steam front page news, 4- Steam forums. ??
They just added another layer to the "already not so good looking" situation of decentralized CF communication means.

Other than that, it looks promissing. I'm sure the next Stable release will be very interesting to play with.

 

He does give his reasons for posting it where he did within the very first lines of the article. Whether you agree is of course up to you. Is this blog area 'new', never knew it existed before this post?

Edit - I guess this is a little OT actually and don't wish to start that whole 'argument' all over again

 

I don't think the addition of the refinery forces any set of play style on the early player in terms of getting pixels. If the player has the means to extract them, then yes diamonds are a good source of pixels. But so is equipping a steel weapon and one shotting the local wildlife(for some races its even better, as a source of meat and burgers for continuous healing and farming). The idea is for the early player is to get the pixels needed for upgrade progression, if they want to truly get rich, then surely progression can only help in that regard?

 

Tiy does mention a time frame in this blog post - aiming for end of the year, but could bleed into 2015. At least it is something for the ETA crowd, but I think 13 new negative reviews just got posted to steam. Oh, the humanity!!!!!!

 

The key difference between playstarbound.com and the CF blog is that the blog is intended for everything to do with the company - not just Starbound. CF has caught some flak in the past from some users who felt that news of the company's ventures into game production didn't belong on an explicitly Starbound-oriented site. This seems to be their response to that (somewhat valid) feedback.

Nah, the blog is new. Less than a day old, in fact.

 

idk about you but im looking forword to that city biome =D

 

I just wanna kill all tentacles...

 

the biomes are unlocked after tier4 and the stuff needed to go to those planets are unlocked on tier 3

snow biome isnt as cold as artic/tentra

 

Floran likess sstable updatess. Floran iss also intrigued by mention of nebulae. Pretty pretty nebulae.

Floran also likess the idea of planet-specific featuress. In the current sstable, Floran rarely visited anything but ssnow and desert planetss.

 

Any update or information from the project lead in welcome.

Good move, communicatively. A lot of people have been asking for something like this for a while.

I think it's right to look at this next stable update as stage 2, whenever it arrives.

 

i can see why you would need the breathing apparatus for the ocean but i dont see why youd need it for savanna or snow =p[DOUBLEPOST=1409771430][/DOUBLEPOST]

well judgeing from the biome diagram we are at the ironore/alloy part

and from the tech diagram we are at the ironcrafting table part

atleast in the nightlys as of now

 

just chiming in to point out that the refinery has always been so that ores that you have no use for aren't just garbage. It has never been a primary or ideal source of pixels.

The only real super advantage it has is it allows you to bank a small amount of pixels that you can't lose by dying because they're still in the machine output slot. Specifically, it's a large enough value to be relevant early game(1000 is the max per refinery I think?) but not later on. That's probably why it got moved up.

 

That refinery may possibly be for oil actually, since that's going to be a thing now, and you will be able to craft the refinery in tier 2, which is also when the oil "alloy" can first be found.

That's just my speculation on the matter though.