The single biggest problem with Starbound

Combat is not fun.

There are many different things that are contributing to this, but overall this is the main problem with the game. I'll try to point out some of these parts, but I will probably miss a lot.


Everything takes too few hits to kill.
Quite simply, fights with your tier tend to result in 2-3 hit kills, both sides. This leaves little room for higher tier players to wipe the floor, and gives us little time to experience the monsters' attack patterns. This also causes Bosses to have limited huge attacks, and makes higher tiers impossible to survive in (ignoring environmental effects).
It's quite possible that there is a way to pull this off, but Starbound is not currently doing so.

Random monster generation is not interesting enough.
Just looking at a creature gives you next to no indication of its; hostility, abilities, if it's gonna charge at you or if its got a ranged attack. I know this has been mentioned before, but this is still one of the main issues with combat. If each body part was tied to a specific attack/move then this could be mitigated, but that would severely limit the number of creatures. More than this, encountering a new creature isn't very interesting, as they're all going to be at a level similar to the planet. The Miniboss mobs are a good exception to this, but the fact that they always spawn on the surface, and are just big versions of existing creatures ruins their presence.
More than this, there is NO visual difference between weak monsters and strong monsters, just bigger health/armour and damage stats. Give us bigger rocky monsters on magma planets, massive furry and slow monsters on colder planets, slimy and fast reptiles on toxic planets and so on. (I will admit that ocean planets do this a bit already with fish, not that it was intentional)
Entering a new tier should be a very different experience, which Starbound just falls short on. They've nailed the appearance for the environments, but they've plopped in random creatures that don't really fit.

Immense difference in stats between tiers.
A player in Durasteel armour can barely hold off Frozen planet creatures, and a player in Violium can wipe the floor with Radioactive planet creatures. I understand that there should be some stat boost between tiers, but this is ridiculous. Since you need to go back to earlier planets for certain materials (eg. Titanium and Uranium don't spawn past Radioactive-tier planets) those planets should still be a challenge for you. I understand that while you have nothing you should be weak, upgrading from no armour to iron armour is a huge difference, but upgrades from there really shouldn't be as big.
On top of this, equipment from radioactive-tier planets should become obsolete immediately on finding equipment from a Frozen or Firey tiered planet.
It would be nice if each tier of planets presented it's own type of challenge, offered armour which resists against that challenge and weapons that direct that challenge at others, rather than a flat boring stat increase. Hell, each biome and minbiome could have its own challenges and loot that works in this way.


These are some of the main problems with combat, which is what is currently ruining a lot of the experience. From thing, most of the other parts of the game that aren't fun stem off. Mining isn't fun, because you you either don't encounter any combat, or the combat you do encounter is boring. Farming isn't fun, because all you can use the produce for is the boring combat system, and it doesn't help much anyway. Exploring isn't much fun, because there is very little difference between the combat encounters on planets. Of course the combat isn't the only issue, but it's the biggest one which will improve the game the most.

Fix the Combat, Improve the Game

 

I think these are good points, especially the difference between tiers. I'd like to disagree with one small point about monster generation. The fact that you know nothing about the creatures on a new planet just by looking at them isn't a bad thing. I think it would be worse if we could. It would just be another thing made known and forever unchanging, such as how you know already what planets you will find around any given star, or what ores you find on any given planet, all just by looking at them, and not even very closely. I like that it takes a little bit of experimentation to become familiar with the world, even if it's only just a little.

For me, this is a very small issue, as it's a simple thing to dig as soon as I land on a new difficulty planet and find the ores needed to climb tiers, then it's almost nothing to be able to slaughter any creature in my path, no differentiations to be made are needed. A surprise ranged attach might throw me of a first time, but really once you know it can do that, it's a slight change in tactics and it's still no big deal.

 

I agree, combat is too quick if you take the right weapons and pointless if you don't. The balance is quite obviously still in beta. Fast weapons with low damage per shot/swing do next to no damage, slow weapons kill in two hits. If you find a slow enough weapon, it can stay effective thru the tiers pretty well.

 

I am one not not really agree with the original poster.

the first thing mentioned just describes what progression should be. If things were easy all around, then most likely the game would end quicker; even if there truly is no end to the game, unless you chose that death option in the beginning.

Everything is possible, and many have survived there otherwise there would not be people already in highest tier armor, as well ship. So not impossible.

random monsters are not what they are, procedural generated is what they are. gives the impression they are random, but I rather enjoy this; give planets a variation of life. What they need here is to add to this, and put specific monsters along side those procedural ones. that way we would have specific ones that roam around, as well some of those large variants. Of course there has to a balance to placement of them... needs work, but not in the areas you are thinking; and that is my own view.

Far as what you are talking about in the last bit. You contradict yourself from what you say in the first paragraph. Fine that you did, but to say you can't wipe the floor to compare a low tier planet saying you don't want to be wiping the floor there?! confusing for me...

It is nice that they have you go to specific planets for certain things, or at least stars. I don't mind how they have setup the difficulty spread among them, my only thing of them is the variety in biomes within them and each planet you go down to; whether it is the weather or the mix of biomes themselves, there is not much change in that respects.

If all stars were the same difficulty, why have armor.... that is what I was getting at; where your contradiction is concerned. Now why would you want an all around challenge everywhere you go, wouldn't you want to wipe the floor with monsters every so often, even if means going to a lower tier planet? The main story quest and the ship upgrades are 2 separate things within the game. You technically do not need to upgrade your ship to progress through the game, so it was your choice to pay attention to ship upgrades.

The more choices throughout the better or more diverse the options are to choose from... That is about all I can really say on the topic. I could say more, but don't want to bore anyone...

 

Pretty sure you don't mind the fact that monsters die quick when you get swarmed by 3 or 4 of them because you just happened to dig into their cave by accident.

 

Well that's your opinion.
I think that Starbound's combat is great fun!
Of course it could always be better.

Honestly I think that having low health counts keeps people on their toes.

I'm using a 2-handed sword and Cerulium (Mage) armor and I'm surviving just fine on Volcanic planets, so long as I focus.
Well, save for getting hit in the head with a meteor sometimes.
Those feel a bit cheap at times.

If normal mobs took more than 3 or 4 hits from a slow weapon (2h sword, hammer, spear etc.) I think that'd be way too slow.
Giving them defensive abilities could be fun, though!
Make them block, reflect projectiles or even activate some sort of thorn-shield that damages you if you hit them while it's up.

This I completely agree with.
It's a huge problem with Starbound in general.
Most of the procedurally generated things feel same-y, not interesting enough.
And like you said the monsters don't give enough of an indication of their actual abilities before you fight a few.

Yeah the stat gaps could definitely be a bit smaller.
I've also never been a huge fan of how so many games make progression about just getting +1 tier on weapons and armor instead of making them interesting.

 

On the point of the armor tiers, it seems weird how all of a sudden in the last two tiers the gear finally and suddenly opens up the possibility of gearing into different playstyles. Until that point, all armor in the tiers below are the basically the same and your playstyle is limited to the techs you use and which weapons you carry around, which for me was just one of every type. Where are the robes and wizard hat, rogue/gunner gear?

I agree that combat needs work, and I think the way gear is handled throughout the progression system plays a part in that. Playstyle is incredibly limited in terms of variety right now, and with the rendering lag, most mobs respond so slowly to me, the game plays more like a runner game than a sci fi sandbox. Most enemies with any health at this point only require me to quickly run back and forth to get behind them while whacking them a few times with a 2 handed sword. The lower tiers are more entertaining by I think being more fundamentally balanced (and generally better looking imo) however they lack any of the variety of the late tiers.

I put on my robe and wizard hat

 

This is your opinion, and while I respect it, I don't exactly agree with it.

Now, here's one of the things you need to consider when balancing combat. Any given player is going to take orders of magnitude more attacks over the course of his playable lifespan, than any given monster. Now you're probably going to go "no duh" but think about that for a second - if players and monsters die in about the same number of hits, then that's fundamentally unfair to players right? A monster's life is less "valuable" to the play experience. There's hundreds, maybe thousands of them, and just one of you. So, from a fundamental standpoint, it's okay if it takes players only a few hits to dispose of a monster. Conersely, it's not okay if they can do the same to you, unless there are special circumstances to consider (such as being a boss monster, for instance).

A player disposing of a monster in a few hits is fine - a player should not have to treat every monster attack as a life-or-death struggle, making combat the only concern out of necessity. There's more to this game than combat, after all, and those who do not like combat should not have to stress themselves over the fights they can't avoid, again unless there's special circumstances to consider (everyone should stress a bit in a boss fight; they're supposed to be dicey and exciting, after all.) I am quite fine with the game not feeling like I'm wearing flappy clown clothes as I jump into a pit of rattlesnakes every time I beam down to a planet.

Right now, I find Starbound's monster combat fine. It could stand to be a bit deeper, maybe, but I can't think of a lot of coherent ways to do that without making it needlessly complex. Unlike you, I don't find higher tiers to be especially difficult because of monsters. I find that I get killed more often by terrain or weather than anything else, particularly those cheap meteor storms. I find I have to be aware of monsters, so as to not blindly throw myself into the jaws of a large pack of hungry critters, but seldom can they really stop me. Often, I have the option to simply avoid them, thanks to techs. And keep in mind, I wear full Cerulium armor religiously. I am not some Impervium behemoth wading through fights without a care in the world (though that's just as valid an option for those who prefer less risk in combat and are comfortable with melee). The only combat related situations where I am at real risk of dying is against hostile NPCs or bosses (but I'm not going to spam up your thread with the reason why. unless I'm asked.)

I really think you don't take a good look at the critters you fight.

I see a lot of creatures whose abilities I can identify by looks. For instance, if a creature has a large, round head,constantly looks like it's asleep, and a pig nose, I know it's going to likely have Gas Breath. If it has a head shaped kinda like an axe, I should expect Sonic Blade. If it has a low, flat head with two eyes on long, flexible eyestalks, it's probably gonna use Sniper Eye. A small creature with ant legs? It's probably going to have Body Slam, and it's going to jump ridiculously high when it uses it. Armor-plated rocky-forelegs? It's gonna be slow-moving, but armed with the hard-to-predict Rock Roll or Rock Shot attack. A bipedal creature is probably going to have Bash instead of Bite, and may have Charge as well; bipeds also tend to lack exotic ranged attacks, but will be more likely to possess support moves like Recover, Shield, or Elder Gust. Body Slam's the unpredictable one (really hard to tell when a critter's gonna have it), and all critters are going to either have Bash, Bite, or both.

A lot of body parts ARE associated with a particular move, especially Head variations. It's just that all monsters also have at least one physical attack that they can use as well - Bash, Bite, Charge, or Body Slam, so you're not guaranteed to see their signature attack. Further, small monsters (the little ones you can one-shot with a tier-appropriate 2-handed sword) never have anything BUT a physical attack or two, even if they have the body parts for more exotic attack methods.

I will agree with you that a lot of creatures don't seem to match their environment, and seem rather haphazardly thrown in. It would be nice if certain body parts that are more 'suitable' for the environment would be weighted preferentially, so that you can kinda expect certain behaviors from a critter adapted to a certain environment. Always leave room for outliers, to surprise players, but we should be able to guess at what we're going to see intelligently. An ice spewing yak-yeti should not appear in a magma oceans.

You state a lot about what you see as problems, but I'm not seeing a lot of examples of how it could be done differently in a coherent fashion. Specifically, you're vague about "each tier providing its own type of challenge' but give no clue as to what those challenges should be. Moreover, if each biome was given a specific armor type uniquely suited to its 'challenges' how would you go deal with the 'challenges' of other biomes? Just moving between two biomes in the same world would put you back at square-one, until you earn the gear of that particular biome. And then consider that just going under ground is a completely different biome, and you start to see yourself carrying 2-7 gear sets just to properly deal with one world. Can you say cumbersome?

Also, equipment from radioactive-tier planets does become obsolete as soon as you're in frozen or fiery-tier gear of the same type. Frozen is T4, Fiery is T6, which is a two whole tier jump.

A few of the things you're critical of are already in the game; you're just not being attentive enough to see it. Further, you claim mining isn't fun because you 'don't see combat" - I don't know about you, but I break into monster infested caves all the time. I also find it fun to dig around looking for underground structures, seeking out new furniture items to scan or new loot to abscond with. That's fun to me, involves mining, and no combat is necessarily involved. Other peoples' ideas of fun may differ from yours, so please don't make such sweeping generalizations. Yes, combat is currently a big part of the game, but it's not the only thing and definitely not the sole source of fun.

 

The flipside of this is that if things DIDN'T die in only a few hits, ranged weapons would be mostly worthless, as they would have no stopping power.

 

I have got to agree with you. I mean, I have 180 hours played in this game, I got my money worth times 100, but the combat does leave a lot to be desired. And it's disappointing when the rest of the game is completely flawless in my eyes.

I have a lot of faith in these developers though. I wasn't aware of the nightly builds, and sort of thought I was scammed for a while, when I came back and saw this update my mind was blown. My point is that combat may eventually change and improve. Even if it was on par with Terraria I would be okay with that.

 

I really like the new combat system. Makes it much more tactically challenging witm slower back movement and new enervy system. Also, bigger variety of monsters makes it much less tedious than it was in Koala. I got bored by the combat pretty easily in Koala.