Building/Ship The Rise of Fum al Samakah -Rebooting Soon - Have some sailing ships for now!

Great to hear it!

 

Got another question for yall...

Would you like me to do a vanilla run through or one with mods? I will still be running the material mod that i use to make bricks that are unobtainable via normal crafting means... but should I run with my other, more expansive mods or keep the first part of the story limited to the core game?

I'm kinda leaning to doing multiple "parts" to the development of the story, and I think starting the story off with just the core game might be a good idea.

Thoughts?

 

I think that starting vanilla, then adding mods as it becomes thematically appropriate sounds like a fun way to progress.

 

I can get behind this idea, also.

My video narrative series claims I'm using mods, but because o the pace at which I'm playing (stopping to build a lot) I honeslty only got one crew member off of Your Starbound Crew mod and literally all of the other mods I'm using have not been featured at all. It could have honestly started in vanilla and added more mods as necessary. Right now I'm contemplating how to shift my story from Upbeat to Pleased without losing too much (in terms of mods).

 

Does the ship really sail, or is it just an RP thing?

 

Unfortunately no, it is stationary. Perhaps when the vehicles update comes out we will be able to customize some things... but we shall see.

And yeah, I'll do a vanilla restart for my first part of the next buildup. Time to get to work

 

Get to work, friend.

 

Getting ready to reboot on this new update.... but thought I would share this ship I built.



This little houseboat has all the amenities one needs when just starting.

I'm thinking of starting a whole section on building sailing ships... Thoughts?

Experimenting with some more building styles and techniques... but I think I'll start the series again soon

 

I like these ships, please keep experimenting.

 

Kinda went crazy and became a shipbuilder overnight.....



Built a nice medium class clipper ship, designated "Green Crescent".

Bigger? Bigger...

 

This is an absolute inspiration! I love your builds and hope to one day be half as good. I also love your rules and lists for colonies. Its in a very similar vein that I was thinking about doing myself. That leads me to a couple of questions about the set... why 10 plants per person? Going off of a per-day type set a single wheat plant (replanted after harvesting) would yield something like 20 loaves a bread per day. Perhaps increasing the need to a variety of foods or something to balance it? Definitely would need more for plants that are slower to harvest.

Just a thought, kinda wanting to fiddle with the system and try it for myself! Cheers.

(didn't see a rule for necro or anything and this really interests me... someone throw a paper airplane at me or something if its too old to reply to)

 

It's never too old to get inspiration from. The reasoning for the plant limits was to make sure there was a food supply system for the colony that would be believable. It was just an arbitrary number... one that is probably a bit high, and needs tweaked to be include food types and levels. But I was just keeping it simple off the start.

Glad you enjoyed it

 

I'm pretty interested in expanding on the colony ideas. Don't want to jack your thread though so I shall await your next update

 

Buy all means, hijack away. I'll be starting a new thread once I restart anyways. I would much more like to refine the colony ideas and numbers first. Just haven't done much with it lately. What are your ides?

 

On writing this I think I have Grand Ages: Rome running in the back of my head... or most village-builders for that matter I guess.

The food actually came out really close to the numbers you had. I split the foods into 4 catagories (grains, fruits, vegetable, proteins) and supposed that each plant gave 1 serving per day. I'm not really seeing any protein possibilities in the crops list so that leaves 9 plants per person. Protein could be handled via a 'hunting guild' sort of building where each hunter produces a given number of meat per day like the plants do. I've been running with 15 meat per day as that's the amount I ended up with running around the planet for a day cycle with the basic bow. Maybe a rancher or something if there is a mod for that.

Clothing, building maintenance and the like would be covered in a same way as the hunters. Weavers provide enough clothes for x number of people. I don't think cotton is in the game but I guess there would be a building chain there. Woodcutters provide a certain amount of lumber to carpenters to repair and build new structures, miners provide a certain amount of rock, clay and ore to the respective craftsmen for use in building (very low amounts of this required I would imagine on a per-building need.) and for producing tools (generated by other industries and agriculture) Miners would also provide coal to fire the ovens with which might become a critically important resource given heating on cold planets is already a requirement.

I would also consider adding heating as a requirement for rainy planets as well. Can still get hypothermia when its warm out if the right (wet) conditions are met.

I would think lumberjacks and farmers would only have a certain range they can reasonably work before needing to hire another one. Farmers, using medieval standards, come out to something like 60 tiles, which on a production similarity comes out to roughly 35 acres. Really not sure for lumberjacks.

Dealing with the technology progress perhaps upgrading the tech increases efficiency or yield for the professions?

Problems:
I have no idea if you can reasonably get all these extra jobs and people in without resorting to apartment style buildings.
I have no idea what the balance is like between the various professions.
Sorta just ends up being the same old village-builder game without anything that really makes it unique other than the worlds themselves, even if the method does usually produce a varied and somewhat believable society. I mean, I love those games, but I'm not sure I actually made anything here other than attempt adapt those systems to the starbound universe.
Going to take a stupidendously long time to colonize a single system, much less branch out to other systems.
-perhaps count resources on an empire-wide scale instead of a colony wide scale? That way you can have small mining outposts or the like that doesn't need to have agriculture or weavers at all, they simply import what they need and export the ore/ingots.


Something I would like but have no idea how to implement with the current game is an interplanetary or intersystem trading economy. Ideally, in a finished system, you'd be able to see the profit that each planet makes doing its thing and get a portion of the total profit from a central homeworld, but thats way over the top at this point.


So... if you haven't thrown your computer in my general direction yet, that's it for the moment. Lots of numbers still needed, but just some ideas that may or may not be needless. (totally confident about this >.>)

 

With this amount of detail, I do believe some modding will be essential. I have been using the Frakin Universe mod, and have come to the conclusion that the level of the mod has reached equal level with the base game. Ergo, it is in balance, and will give me the other details I was wanting for building a colony. Things like advanced tech, cotton and silk, hops and wine, electricity, and some automation. I also like the idea of interplanetary trade.... I'll elaborate on my ideas on that later.

To start out, I think we can tackle food.

I agree, one farmer could handle ~60 tiles (30 crops).
I also agree one serving per day per plant. - leading to 10 sources / 3 meals = 3 parts per meal with an extra 1.
The plant categories seem fine, except there does need to be a sugars of some type, or a catch all.... for sugar, coffee, ect need to be accounted for. Protein can be handled by hunters, or by boneaboo plants, and perhaps some others.
Also, there needs to be a way to increase food efficiency, else 1/3 of every town will be farmers, and that won't work on larger cities.
Perhaps a tech score that can double/triple the output per plant? For every food tech level one reaches, the farming efficiency increases.
Also along with food, clean water should also be a big consideration.

With clothing, I think that sounds just fine. currently the game uses plant fiber, which we will have plenty of from the farming. With the mod, cotton and silk are available too... and could increase variety. I'm thinking a 1 weaver to 20 population would work fine. I don't see the need of putting too many people on clothing.

Now with raw materials, this can get a bit dicey.
I agree that lumber can be handled just like farming... 1 lumberjack for 30 trees. It's simple and renewable.
Miners are a different story....
I suppose they can be done similar to hunters, where a mine can provide a set amount of resources per day. However, minerals are a finite material, and constant improvements to digging will be required. Perhaps a timer that requires the mine to be upgraded after a certain amount of time... in order to gain access to more material?


Now with a trade system... what about a forum game type of thing? Each player runs their own civilization, and can set up trades with others? It can be run similar to the old corporate section of the forums... where each planet is it's own system that can be tracked with a balance sheet of sorts. But perhaps that is getting a bit too detailed and over the top.


Meh it's late here, I'll let you look over what I'm thinking and get back to me. Time for sleep.

 

I'll have to check Frakin Universe out. I haven't done any modding yet so I'm sure that will be an adventure in itself.

I was thinking of adding sugar, coffee, perhaps chile and some others into a luxury category or something similar to provide an extra +1 to a colony score. Coffee is kind of a luxury, though I wouldn't recommend talking to me before I've had at least a cup of it xD

Agreed with the tech level increase. If its based on the level of the crafting benches then there are 3 tiers of tech so at max level you'd have i farmer per (3-6-12) 12 people per farmer at the high end tech with doubling and (3-9-21) 21 people per farmer with tripling.

Agreed with water. The question I have is that while its easy enough to collect as much water as you want on forest/lush planets its immensely difficult on quite a number of them where water simply isn't available. Though I guess this is solvable with interplanetary trade and using an empire-wide resource system. Distillation, purification, desalination facilities would need to be in place with the appropriate workforce. I would think they would require a certain tech level themselves given electrolysis is not something that was possible until well into the modern period. Tech level 2 perhaps, since the iron crafting table is needed for steel which is, for humans at least, an armor set that resembles early-mid 20th century light infantry armor. Definitely would make ocean worlds a critical part of any kingdom. I guess we then get to the question of how much water any given facility can render drinkable.

First, I think a pixel may be roughly a gallon. (how big are pixels anyway? being 4 pixels tall puts it at an unusual number presuming a human height of 5-6ft). Based mostly on how deep a pixel of water is compared with, more or less, how tall a gallon of water comes up on my shin. (totally precise >.> ) I would think that a gallon per person per day would cover the kinds of activity that most of the citizens would be doing though if we want to get deeper into it certain professions need more water than others. Teachers, weavers, administrators need less water than miners, lumberjacks or farmers who may need water based on the number of crops they are tending in addition to an increased amount for them to drink. The amount that a facility can process would depend on the tech level. Though modern day, if we're taking us as tech 2, early feasability studies for a desalination plant in San Diego is believed to have the capacity for 100-150 million gallons of water per day. So basically, you'd only need 1 of them since achieving real world density would be something of a challenge. Kinda negates it as a pressing need or critical consideration before colonizing a barren, poison or arid world though. Perhaps a 100/200/300 split? You have a lot more experience in how this would scale with a large city, this was kinda just a stab in the dark.

In trading to planets without access to fresh water I think it will come down to storage capacity and presumed trade with planets that have ample water to trade. Not sure that desert worlds will have any difficulty aquiring water since they tend to have copious amounts of oil, which would be another industry related question since you'd need to build refineries and the oil pumps. Also question of a non-renewable resource, but I get to a possible solution down a bit.

I actually forgot that you get plant fiber from farming. D'oh. Too much time hunting for the vines underground I guess.

A time frame would work, but does the time cease to be a factor once reaching tech 3? Another sector we haven't mentioned would be in education, perhaps having a university on planet would negate the need for the time frames above tech 3? My concern is that once a player has expanded across several planets that it ceases to be a kingdom management endevour and more of a mine-operator/perpetual digger game. I think another might just be to keep the yield low per miner early on so there is a high need to increase the tech level. I guess its a bit of abstraction, but technically the game is only played in a small band so perhaps the number of mines simply are unable to extract all resources on a given planet under normal gameplay conditions? An earth-year on a planet with 15 minute of daylight and 15 of darkness still takes 182 hours of real time to complete a year and we've been mining on earth for thousands so perhaps it wouldn't be too far fetched to treat it as an infinite resource? I think there is also a question of how much space a mine takes up, or the reasonable size of a mine per worker. I prefer mine to be 1000 wide and as deep as core fragments start to show up, but even on a small lush world it encompasses ~900,000 blocks. 1 miner per 100,000 blocks? 1 for 250,000? A large world will have a mine thats 1000x1500 give or take so 1.5 million blocks... Perhaps teching up could increase the amount of space that a miner can handle on his own. I think this would encourage small scale mines in the beginning and larger scale miners later on with another pressing need to get to higher tiers.

Forum game could be fun, though I have no idea how it worked before.

It was bed time for me too, sorry I didnt get back to it till now. Let me know what you think!

 

I'm glad you rez this thread because it's one of my favorites.

 

I'm glad you enjoy the series, Kirumaru. I look forward to continuing it very soon.

And sorry for some of the long delays, RL can get crazy at times.


Now for more details.....
I agree on the food multiplier with the 3 tech levels. I think to push it even further, the cooking recipies should play a part. Perhaps for every 3 recipes you get another citizen once you are at tech lvl 3? Of course one would need to store all those foods, so a good food storage and distribution system can push it further.... but that is more for city building, once it gets that far.

I think for water it should be kept simple. One unit of water is one gallon (for it takes up a one block space) and every person needs one gallon per day. I don't think a tech level will be needed for the water, for we are already in the space age, just not able to fully use the techs yet. For areas without water availability, it should come down to shipping and storage... which is the next main topic I'm thinking about.

I think trading between planets should be limited to three planets for one ship. Each planet must have a landing pad or hanger for the ship to dock, and storage facility for cargo. This storage area can double as the level indicator of the town on that planet (food levels, material stores, ect.) There should be a fueling area too, if going out of system. The items and amounts being traded should probably be put into an outgoing cargo area, or at the receiving planets incoming area, perhaps both. Those materials can then be counted for that town's use.

This will limit the spread of a kingdom and put a tech gate on expansion. One must build a ship building facility and have many landing pads and stores to be able to have a large area of influence. Obviously off the start, the player is the main ship, and can therefore only set up on a max of 3 planets. Once one of them is sufficiently developed and a new ship can be built, then expansion can continue. Perhaps even have ships built in asteroid space as fleets...

I also agree on the finite materials not really being an issue. I'm probably just looking way too long term....
The other ideas on mining are interesting, and I like to keep it as simple as possible. Perhaps the size of the mine is not actually tied to the miners... but to the tech level. So to start with, you can have one, 1000 wide mine on planet. You can have as many miners as you can feed and supply tools for, and each miner produces X number of material per day. But at tech level 2, your mine could be expanded to 2000 wide, or start another 1000 wide mine. The miners could also produce X+ materials per day. Then at lvl 3, a 3000 wide mine, or another 1000, wide mine, with miners at X++ materials per day. Obviously the materials gathered would be tied to the difficulty level of the planet. However, the processing of them should probably require some workers too. Perhaps one smelter per ore type?


Well that was a lot to cover, what do you think?


The forum game stuff is simply the same thing, only done on a world map that shows spheres of influence and allows trading between kingdoms, and wars

 

No worries!

I think that will work pretty well. One of the things I was thinking is that the recipes can cover multiple food groups, but I think your system will work better. Does the tier of food matter for this? I haven't really considered distribution at all so that's something else to work out.

I really like the system you mentioned abotu trading, though personally I will probably set up the out-of-system fueling station on the moon that comes with every system, but it does make a lot of sense to have stations that can determine the level and the amount of trade. Perhaps depending on the port in place there are different classes of ships that each could perhaps travel to more worlds? I agree it makes a lot of sense to limit the number of planets a ship can travel to though, both for the volume of supplies a given ship can carry and the speed at which it can get them there, especially if its something in continual demand like water.

I was thinking of setting up a large main hub on a 1 per system kind of setting with smaller ports and hubs on individual planets, but I'm not sure how that really changes anything. Definitely a good idea to hold back progression a bit that way.

One smelter per ore type makes sense. How much is reasonable for a single miner to mine at the base level and how much demand is there for any given material? There's tool demand: perhaps 2 ingot per tool needing profession (miners, farmers, and woodcutters especially), 1 per building for upkeep and... 1 per other person (necklaces, cooking tools, other misc items that arent needed to be replaced often)? I'm not sure exactly of numbers but I would think that not more than 2% of a population would be involved in miners + the smiths and smelters necessary to produce finished products. Then we can kinda work backwards from demand to get the amount of ore a given miner is able to haul to the surface. I do think it works better to establish a mine limit instead of a block per miner, though I'm not sure what the benefit for mining there is in terms of number of mines if each mine can hold an infinite number of miners.

Are we splitting the smelting and smithing into two different professions?
Perhaps linking the percentages to a similar level per tier. So a farmer, a woodcutter, and a miner all are about a given % of a population? Also, if splitting the mining tree into miners>smelters>smiths should there be an additional two steps for woodcutters (sawmill, carpenters?) and one for farmers (not really sure what could be added)
Unnecessary probably.

^_^ Let me know what you think.