The OFFICIAL Avali Nexus #2

Discussion in 'Hangout Threads' started by RyuujinZERO, May 19, 2014.

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  1. Surge

    Surge Phantasmal Quasar

    ohhh very nice, if they do cloud data handling I assume the ship computer can just simply hand off anything it doesn't have the resources for to another ship to process for it.
     
  2. RyuujinZERO

    RyuujinZERO Supernova

    Why would the British want to massacre the colonists? - They were British colonies. Imagine if an isurgent force appeared in Alaska, or Hawaii? - How would you determine the beligerant forces from the locals? - They'd all be Americans, you wouldn't just bomb it flat. This is the problem America had in Vietnam, Afghanistahn and Iraq (Depending who you ask, wars America lost) - it's very difficult to win over a population, when one side has beligerants within the population, Vs a uniformed army.

    Bare in mind at this point in history we're talking about, it was an internal conflict, British vs British, "The United States of America" did not exist
    Sorry if I seem to have an axe to grind on this. It's just recently an American friend pointed out just how skewed and biased the American school textbooks are on this topic, painting the British as "the evil empire who eat babies as field rations Vs the Rebels of Righteous Goodness (tm), he was quite shocked when he learned the full story
     
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  3. lonewolf1358

    lonewolf1358 Guest

    *respawns in new body*
    The clone machine does work...
    The Aerogel virus is... Painful.
    ...
    ...
    It appears that I've missed out on a lot...
     
  4. 0deneb0

    0deneb0 Hard-To-Destroy Reptile

    As I said, if they wanted to. They tried to crack down, but lost control, shit hit the fan, and things spiraled out of control until there was no reason to keep wasting soldiers. In the end, it was a "why are we fighting this war again" moment. The entire revolution could have been avoided, but it wasn't. Indeed, one of the reasons we weren't just flat out decimated is because we were British colonists. As for Vietnam and the likes, most American's agree we lost those wars. My point was, mistakes were made by both parties involved, they just happened to favor one side over the other. Also, I hate our school system. Most everything they taught us about the revolution were only half-truths. I'm not properly educated on the subject because of that, so any mistakes I make on the subject stem from flawed and broken knowledge. On a side note TESLA WAS ROBBED! EDISON IS A CROOK!!!
     
  5. Icebelly

    Icebelly Weight of the Sky

    *finally enters* Well I'm late again...

    Can we actually try and see how long we can go without shenanigans?
     
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  6. J_Mourne

    J_Mourne Pangalactic Porcupine

    I guess I got very lucky that I didn't get my history schooling from a standard-issue public school history textbook. :rofl:
    The other thing to keep in mind is that Britain had just gotten done fighting the Seven Years' War (French & Indian War, it's usually called in the U.S.), and had won that conflict through a combination of deficit spending (hmm, I wonder what other Western nation has done that to win wars) and by opening an extra front in America to stretch the French forces and budget thin. This was, in fact, why the colonies were having to pay increased taxes; both to pay off the deficit and because, from a British perspective, a significant portion of the war had been fought on American soil to protect the colonies from the dirty French.

    This is why colonial complaints about being overtaxed were unfair and even a little selfish. They thought that their contributions of men and material were enough on their part (hah, not even close; wars are expensive) and that Britain shouldn't tax them further. Parliament's only irreparable mistake was being so heavy-handed with the colonies, otherwise we might still be part of the United Kingdom.

    Though that would've really shifted the balance of power around pretty tremendously during the 1800's. I almost wonder what that alternate history would look like today. And the American Civil War would've been a lot more complicated of a situation, if it even occurred at all. Hmm.
     
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  7. RyuujinZERO

    RyuujinZERO Supernova

    Out of curiosity, since you've discarded what I just told you, what is your "magic bullet" that could have avoided the revolution? - Bearing in mind:
    • The colonial ambassador is not properly communicating events in the colonies to the British government. They are largely blind.
    • Major points of contention include:
      • Colonists who wish to take land from the natives/kill them, who are unhappy the British government is blocking them doing so
      • Colonists who outright refuse to pay any kind of taxation (and never have done). Any action you take is coming out of treasury or deficit.
      • Existence of armed militias who are refusing to answer to any central authority. Overstep your bounds, and they'll rebel against you, regardless which side you represent.
    Against this backdrop, playing as either or both sides, find a solution to this that does not lead to either:
    • Rebellion
    • Massacring the natives
    • Massacring your colonists
    • Bankrupting your respective faction
    Good question. The US civil war occured almost 30 years after the united kingdom outlawed slavery completely, and almost 60 years after the trade in slaves was ended. So the generations that sought to cede from the states over the issue would not have existed, nor would the environment have been the same.

    Nor would the states have existed for that matter. The US of course started out as a loose federation of independently governed states, whereas any "Extended British Empire" would've had a more centralised system of governance (Answering to whitehall)
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2014
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  8. SCN-3_<NULL>

    SCN-3_<NULL> Pangalactic Porcupine

    *wakes up crawling out from the rubble of the old Nexus thread heavily damaged*
    you guys need to stop accelerating the thread while I'm in my sleep >=(
    I missed the farewell......
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2014
  9. Ehksidian

    Ehksidian Spaceman Spiff

    You most certainly did.
     
  10. J_Mourne

    J_Mourne Pangalactic Porcupine

    Puts the Boston Tea Party in a much eerier light when you realize it was just a relatively tiny band of men that managed to, indirectly, help spark an entire war (hmm, I wonder what other Western nation has fought wars over the actions of small bands of extremists).

    While dumping tea is certainly a far cry from suicide-bombing skyscrapers and killing thousands of innocents, the fact is that the revolutionaries did a great bit to force Britain's hand. With the clarity of hindsight we can guess that, maybe, if Britain had worked to satisfy the worries of the common colonists while ignoring and taking measured (ideally non-military) action against the revolutionaries, war could have been avoided or at least delayed, but as Ryuujin says, there was practically no way that was going to happen given the limited perspective each side had of the situation.
     
  11. 0deneb0

    0deneb0 Hard-To-Destroy Reptile

    I never claimed to know Ryuu. In my opinion, the revolution came about because events spiraled out of control. Like I said, both sides made mistakes, shit led to more shit, shots were fired, and by that point everyone was riled up and out for blood. Maybe if the British had been more diplomatic, maybe if the colonists had thought things through more, maybe maybe maybe. See the theme, it's a lot of maybes, we'll never know because that's not what happened. I didn't ignore what you said, and I'm sorry if it seemed like I did. I'm very opposed to violence on any scale, the only exception being self defense in the moment. In my mind, war is the culmination of many events, not a single incident. Things that seem insignificant can add up, but war is never the only possible outcome. Hell, in an alternate timeline maybe the British got fed up with it, brought in an army, and just scared some sense into us. I don't know. My opinions are formed from what I perceive to be rational ideas and possibilities. And it is my opinion, that the colonial war was a stupid mistake that got out of hand and led to a revolution. If you want, we can discuss this, tomorrow. It's midnight for me right now, my head hurts, and I have a new internship tomorrow that I'm afraid I'll f*** up if I don't get to sleep soon. I'm in no mood or condition to be discussing this right now. So good night.
     
  12. J_Mourne

    J_Mourne Pangalactic Porcupine

    Assuming Ryuujin's in Britain at the moment (GMT), it's about... four in the morning (04:00 hours) for him? ;)

    Ryuujin, outclassin' on any subject, at any time. When duty calls, education must follow.
     
  13. RyuujinZERO

    RyuujinZERO Supernova

    Indeed, you also have to consider the time lag, that it could take weeks or even months, for orders from one side of the pond to be recieved or returned. Taking a softly-softly approach might prove ineffectual, and the delay could result in further escalation or issues, conversely if you send a small peacekeeping force; will that be enough? - Reinforcements and supplies could be weeks or months away (Which is actually what happened) conversely, if you frontload a military response, might it be overkill and precipitate a conflict that wasn't going to happen?

    We should all be very grateful for EM-based telecommunications xD

    @J_Mourne : Yes .zZ

    [​IMG]
     
  14. 0deneb0

    0deneb0 Hard-To-Destroy Reptile

    :lod: He doesn't have a new internship at 7am were first impressions mean the difference between a good reference on your future job applications and 6 wasted weeks of your life.
     
  15. J_Mourne

    J_Mourne Pangalactic Porcupine

    This has been a check of your priorities:
    Everything is in order. Carry on.

    And maybe get some sleep, eventually. :p
    Good luck!
     
  16. RTBot

    RTBot Void-Bound Voyager

    Sleep? Hah, it's only 5:32 AM!
     
  17. Surge

    Surge Phantasmal Quasar

    SLEEP IS FOR THE WEEK WEAK
     
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  18. SCN-3_<NULL>

    SCN-3_<NULL> Pangalactic Porcupine

    you guys have horrible sleeping habit, get to bed before sleep deprivation kicks in.
     
  19. Zeal Wyman

    Zeal Wyman Void-Bound Voyager

    Indeed. I went to bed at 5 this morning and didn't end up getting up until 3:30 this afternoon. .w.;

    Also just saw Frozen and goddammit my feels. ; A;
     
  20. Myifee

    Myifee Guest

    Was tempted to lurk for this thread until somebody noticed I had disappeared, but changed my mind.

    Have some music instead

     
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