The new numbers on Animals: Can they actually compete?

I think bumping Rancher to 40% and fixing the bugs would go a long way. I'm curious as to your thoughts or suggestions Shiverwarp.

 

I think just fixing the bugs would be a good start so we can get an idea of what we are actually dealing with before we start pushing other numbers around.

 

With Rancher now affecting certain limited Artisan Goods there needs to be parity between the two prices or Rancher just isn't the choice when put against Artisan because it affects far less products and is lesser for the ones it does. Just my 2 copper though.

 

Yeah fixing the bugs is priority. We don't technically know which ones he even considers bugs, we can only make guesses.

I actually don't care too much about the numbers, honestly. All I want is for us to be able to logically handle, and increase how we make money. The animal bugs cause them to work in an illogical fashion, so it makes it extremely frustrating to play the game.

I haven't actually gone through this thread to read how people are comparing or optimizing their farms. But, Just from how Rancher works right now, where it also has an effect on artisan products created from animal products, upping it to 40% would make it extremely powerful.

I'm not into late game, and I don't min/max, and I'm fairly happy with things as they are now numbers wise.

 

Well, rancher is affecting the base price so 40% may not be that extreme. Let's say the base price of normal cheese was bumped another 20% by Rancher. That'd be 380g which is the same as the Artisan price. That seems fair to me, not extremely powerful , since it would actually make Rancher a pretty good option for raising animals. But yes, bug fixes and then seeing where we're at is the logical first step.

Edit: A comparison with animal products needs to use an animal product I suppose. At 40% a regular small milk would net a Rancher 175g vs turning it into cheese at the same 280 an Artisan gets. Iridium small milk nets 350 which would be 70g over Artisan cheese. Gold small milk becomes 262g vs 280g cheese. That doesn't seem an unreasonable place.

 

@nevyn21

What if instead it was a benefit similar to foraging where it was 20% extra sell price for animal products + 20% chance of receiving extra product on each 'harvest'?
With the right bonus chance your profit margins would be similar, it would also mean a reduction in the # of animals you have have to maintain to reach said profit level.

a 20% increase in sell price + a 20% chance of +1 milk/wool/eggs on harvest equates to a +44% increase in profit overall. Which seems fair to me.

 

That could work too. The quality and quanity would be a major factor there I think. Assuming 60% of my sheep are producing daily (almost like now with the bugs, my best day is 32/60) thats 36 wool. With the value of Cloth with Rancher at 564g that's 20,304 g/day. Figure in 36*.2 and that's an additional 7 sheep at 564 for 3,938. Total of 23,943. If you figure 40% to cloth it's 36*658g or 23,658.

An iridium wool would net 816g per additional production or 952g at 40%. 35,088 vs 34,272 respectively.

 

The way rancher works currently it actually affects the artisans products directly, so a 20% increase to the base price of the artisan product.

 

I think we need to introduce a "Crafting" Skill, possibly with separate branches focusing on cooking vs artisan goods, with higher skill levels giving better chances of high-quality goods. This would require a change to casks where instead of increasing quality over time they produce entirely new products. For example;

Milk ->Soft Cheese -> (3 days in cask) Semi-Soft Cheese -> (4 more days) Semi-Sharp Cheese --> (7 days) Sharp Cheese
If Irridium Quality is x2 base price and Sharp Cheese is another x2 base price then Aging Irridium Soft Cheese into Irridium Sharp cheese is x4 base price.

 

@ShneekeyTheLost In your original post you say that "A rumor that I would like to disabuse people of: Rancher does not increase the value of artisan goods made from animal products"

Are you saying that the price increases I was seeing in -> http://community.playstarbound.com/threads/duck-mayo-worth-450g-without-artisan-perk.126287/

Are incorrect? Or the ones nevyn21 was seeing with cloth?

 

Shneeky created this thread before any of us figured it out. Actually I think I figured out the cloth rancher price in this thread.

Edit: Just a little showing off. I won the Grange display with 9 Iridium Wool. My score:

 

Well, he's saying what he is saying. The perk does not increase the product selling price itself, but the base price (raised through rancher) does. It doesn't work like Tiller, sadly. If that worked the same we'd have 10% higher prices on all nearly all Artisan items made from crops

Heh, looks like you're as lazy as me, i keep 8 Iridum purple shrooms just for that Festival xD

 

Rancher DOES increase the artisan product directly by the percentage. (Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, which is possible)

This is the bit that checks what items to set their price to 1.2x for rancher:

Code:

if (this.name.ToLower().Contains("mayonnaise") || this.name.ToLower().Contains("cheese") || this.name.ToLower().Contains("cloth") || this.name.ToLower().Contains("wool"))

 

Then it's written different in the code.

Because:

Rancher seems to raise the base price of the item by 20% - i.e. Wool has its base priced increased from 300 to 408 with rancher, so Cloth isn't worth 470 anymore but 564

Maybe it doesn't... at least the code says it affects the product directly, still something i don't get about rancher as artisan raises that by 40% as well...

And then there's the strange thing about Artisan Products, Tiller and the price calculation:

Tiller increases a crops base price by 10% - i.e. an Ancient Fruit is worth 605 after that, base is 550. But the base value is used in the price calculation for any artisan product like wine, which is threefold and makes it 1650 per bottle - which leaves out the tiller profession completely x.x

Codewise it totally falls in line, calculation wise for wine/juice/preserve calculation it doesn't x.x

 

I honestly don't like the idea of talents giving a blanket buff to prices. We already have a system in the game that determines the value of goods: Quality. Higher quality goods are worth more, right? So why not have the talent system produce higher quality goods? It gets you more money either way.

This way item prices can be balanced around their own merits, instead of worrying about how they stack with talents. It also makes iridium-tier more special, because the player gets to choose the goods they excel in.

It doesn't really make sense that one farmer can sell plain wool for more money than another farmer gets for silver wool.

 

For farming and foraging that system is already in place, with the exception of iridium crops. But iridium crops wouldn't really make sense. Preserves would become nearly obsolete, as well as juices, and Wine'd only make a 1/3 difference for a huge waittime

I don't get your last argument tho, wool is priced 340/425/510/680 without rancher, and 408/510/612/816 with, so silver wool with rancher wouldn't be worth more then plain wool without

 

Well the argument is to pump up rancher even more, to 30-40%. At that point you're going up a tier of pricing without actually going up a tier. I don't like the idea of an unspecced player getting the same value as a player who dedicates to a particular choice of talents, but that's something you can already do by boosting the item quality rather than giving a global price bump.

There's nothing wrong with iridium crops as long as they aren't too common. The huge boost of quality fertilizer actually amounts to a roughly 25% increase in value. If the player is maxing their farm talents AND using top notch fertilizer, then it's clearly because they want to get iridium crops. So what's the harm in giving them the crops they seek? As long as the average value is still there (for example Half iridum + half plain => 50% price increase) it all works out. If they don't want iridium crops (because artisans don't need them, for example) then they can get alternate talents and avoid fertilizer.

 

Rancher is a specced talent, so I'm not sure what your argument is. It comes earlier than Artisan, but that doesn't allow it to compete against Artisan prices, except the prices on wool and iridium quality milks. Wool still barely competes, I'm not so sure about raw high quality milk. Raw eggs are a joke.

 

Only reason for eggs is mayo or cheap crafted food, sadly :/ Reason why my coop is filled with 9 void chickens, 1 dino and 2 ducks...

My sheep are producing every 2 days now in winter btw... and my cows started giving large milk >.>; Heaters are the best thing happening atm ;/

 

When creating an artisan product, the finished product is basically completely removed from whatever the creation item was. It doesn't take into account the price of what it was, only the item it was. When you create an artisan product it is its own unique item. The game hard codes all the prices of things, and then changes that price based on if its quality, and what professions you have.

Tiller doesn't double dip because artisan "overrides" it. There's nothing higher than the 20% from rancher in the ranching tree, so nothing overrides it