The new numbers on Animals: Can they actually compete?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ShneekeyTheLost, Oct 20, 2016.

  1. Shiverwarp

    Shiverwarp Starship Captain

    Try this schedule, it should result in your chickens producing large eggs every single day (With a few exceptions) if they are at max friendship:
    1. Pet your chickens in the morning
    2. Let them outside to eat grass
    3. When they go to bed at 6PM, close the coop door so they can't eat grass before you pet them in the morning.
    4. Go to bed before 7PM, closer to 6PM is better. If you miss this window, you're better off staying up as late as possible to avoid the Mood Modifier issue
    There are a few stipulations:

    • If you know it's going to rain the next day, you're better off staying up late, or else you'll run into the happiness roll over bug in the morning [Other option is to not pet them on rainy days, but this will hurt your friendship/mood the following day]
    • If it's winter, you want to stay up late before sleeping when you have a heater.
     
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    • Skip Sandwich

      Skip Sandwich Void-Bound Voyager

      What would be the best routine for maximizing pig production?

      We need max friendship since that governs the chance for a pig to produce multiple truffles per day, while also keeping mood as close to 200 as possible without going over so as to minimize the chance of "deluxe" produce being rolled.

      I think the following will work but only IF you do NOT have barnmaster.

      1. Pet pigs in the morning
      2. Let them outside to eat grass
      3. When they go to bed at 6pm close the barn door so they can't eat before you reach them the next morning
      4. Go to bed anytime after 9pm

      This should result in the pigs beginning each day at 150 mood +30ish from petting for a total of 180-190 before they are let outside.
      *do NOT pet pigs on rainy days unless it rains for 2 or more consecutive days, then pet every 2nd day.
      *Pigs do not produce during winter anyway so do whatever.

      Does that look good? I can't think of a simple routine if you pick barnmaster with pigs as they just end up with 200+ mood after petting.
       
      • Shiverwarp

        Shiverwarp Starship Captain

        Pigs:
        At maximum friendship, after a truffle is found, there is a 66% chance that the pig will retain the ability to create another truffle. (Note that this does not guarantee an additional truffle, they still have to dig another up afterward)

        At max friendship, and exactly 200 Mood, there is a 50% chance that the pig will produce NOTHING at all that day (This is the absolute highest chance a pig at max friendship can have, most likely you will almost never be able to get exactly 200. And if you accidentally go over 200 they are instantly guaranteed to not produce anything at all)

        With this, I'm pretty sure the best option is to try to keep pigs on a low friendship. They gain no quality bonus from friendship like other animals. The way I would do this is to let them out to eat grass every day, and never talk to them. Just leave their barn door open forever. If the pig is already at zero friendship, this means that they will never gain friendship. (They gain +8 from eating grass, but will lose -10 per day for not being pet because they're at 0 friendship. Friendship lost due to not petting is Calculated day-end by the formula: (10 - (CurrentFriendship / 200)))

        Side note: Having shepherd should have no effect on end of day happiness if you are petting before they eat grass. (And it's not winter of course. Winter makes things messy)
         
        • nevyn21

          nevyn21 Cosmic Narwhal

          Ok, so all my projections are wrong except the first one for chickens. Thanks for setting me straight Shiverwarp. I'll rerun them tommorow.
           
          • Magistrella

            Magistrella Big Damn Hero

            Sound's bout right. I had two Pigs at 0 hearts and they produced a truffle everyday. I averaged out at 3 truffles/day because of the foraging skill, which is 3750/day from two pigs.... which isnt that bad...

            I think i need to buy more of them xD
             
            • nevyn21

              nevyn21 Cosmic Narwhal

              I've re-worked my projections to the best of my abilities.

              Chickens (Mayo@ Rancher Price)

              48 Normal Mayo * 228g = 10,944 profit/day

              48 Gold Mayo * 342g = 16,416 profit/day

              Median Profit is 10,944<->16,416 = 13,680 g/day

              Average Yearly income = 13,680 *112 = $1,532,160 (Variable $1,532,160 <->$1,838,592)

              Chickens (Mayo@ Artisan Price)

              48 Normal Mayo * 266g = 12,768 profit/day

              48 Gold Mayo * 399g = 19,152 profit/day

              Median Profit is 12,768<->19,152 = 16,010 g/day

              Average Yearly Income = 16,010 * 112 = $1,793,120 (Variable $1,430,016 <-> $2,145,024)

              Void Chickens (Void Mayo@ Rancher Price)

              48 Normal Mayo * 330g = 15,840 profit/day

              Yearly Income = 15,480 * 112 = $1,733,760

              Void Chickens (Void Mayo@ Artisan Price)

              48 Normal Mayo * 385g = 18,480 profit/day

              Yearly income = 18,480 * 112 = $2,069,760


              Ducks (Duck Mayo@ Rancher Price)

              47 Duck Mayo * 450 = 21,150 / 2 days = 10,575 + 187 (Average of the three sale prices for Duck Feathers) or 10,762 g/day

              Yearly Income = $1,205,344 (Variable)

              Ducks (Duck Mayo @ Artisan Price)

              47 Duck Mayo * 525 = 24,675 / 2 days = 12,337 + 157 or 12,494 g/day

              Yearly Income = $1,399,328 (Variable)

              Void chickens are more reliable (in as much as any animal can be relied upon with the mechanics in the state they are) than chickens with only a $104,832/yearly difference between chickens at max production and void chickens level production at Rancher prices and a difference of $75,264/yearly at Artisan prices. The ducks are a strange case to nail down with any reliability but they are not money making animals compared to chickens. Keeping them for the bundle completion and then replacing them with a more profitable animal would be my advice.

              As always, comments and corrections are welcome. :)
               
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              • bobucles

                bobucles Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                I see all these numbers comparing ordinary animals to legendary crops, but that's not a fair comparison. Legendary crops are better than everything and are not readily available for most of the main game. You need to compare normal animals to normal crops like corn/cauliflower/cabbage.

                It's obvious that regular animals can't compete with the top tier crops. The real problem is that we don't have legendary animals! When can I kidnap some dragon eggs from the skull mines and sell some scales?
                 
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                • ShneekeyTheLost

                  ShneekeyTheLost Master Astronaut

                  You don't consider Dinosaurs to be legendary animals? They're even worse than chickens, due to how they almost never produce, and the fact that their eggs are technically Artifacts, not animal products OR artisan goods, so none of the perks work on increasing their value.

                  You work with what you have. I wouldn't call Hops 'Legendary', but it stomps all over anything animals can do.
                   
                  • nevyn21

                    nevyn21 Cosmic Narwhal

                    Yes it's true. Between bugs, prices, lack of automation (our barn doors should close themselves) and Rancher not being equal with the Artisan bonus animals are in poor shape right now. I still love mine and they're still making me good money so I think I'll keep them anyway.
                     
                      Last edited: Nov 4, 2016
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                    • Skip Sandwich

                      Skip Sandwich Void-Bound Voyager

                      suggestions for improving dinosaurs;

                      1) Make dinos lay "petrified eggs" instead, which are processed like geodes with similar rewards, Common payout 4-10 coal(Ha hah! "Fossil Fuel" joke!), uncommon 1-3 "fossil" artifacts
                      2) Change the outcome of processing a Dino egg into Giant Mayo or Ancient Mayo or similar
                      3) Buff the Tracker Forage skill perk to improve the sell price of Artifacts by 50% or so. Rename it "Treasure Hunter" or similar.
                       
                      • bobucles

                        bobucles Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                        It's not really fair to compare an animal that is literally bugged to give LESS as you take care of it. Dinosaurs definitely need to get fixed, though right now they are underwhelming as coop animals.

                        The problem is that you're describing an issue exclusive to hops. It shouldn't be a surprise that multiplying a product's value by 12x is crazy good when the keg normally gives other products 2-3x their value. I don't think it would be fair to reduce the value of pale ale because that would screw up brewing schedules, but it should probably use 2-3 hops instead of 1 and potentially(not necessarily) take an extra day. Using 2 hops would nerf the multiplier to 6x, while 3 hops would be an effective 4x. It's still giving above average returns, but you won't be able to run a large scale brewery off of a dozen hops plants.

                        After all a coffee plant gives twice the output of hops per day and requires 5x the ingredients in the keg(for only 2x value boost).

                        Wheat beer may need a similar treatment as well(with a price boost).
                         
                        • ShneekeyTheLost

                          ShneekeyTheLost Master Astronaut

                          Fair really isn't anything in the equation. These are the numbers we have to work with. Unless CA changes them, this is what we have to work with.

                          Hops and Starfruit, neither one are 'legendary', but both blow the top off of animal profits. The only plant I'd call 'legendary' is ancient fruit, which is actually relegated to 'filler crop, I suppose', and barely used anymore.
                           
                          • bobucles

                            bobucles Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                            Fair is totally relevant to the discussion. If a particular cash crop makes animal ranching irreconcilable, then it is probably making a lot of other farming methods irrelevant as well. It is much easier to fix one glaring issue than to buff everything else in a vain hope to compete.
                             
                            • ShneekeyTheLost

                              ShneekeyTheLost Master Astronaut

                              Not really.

                              We're not discussing 'fixing' anything, we're working with the numbers CA has given us. Barring mods, there's absolutely no way we can in any way changing the numbers, so it's largely irrelevant to discuss what you personally feel 'should' be.

                              When you run numbers, you use the actual production figures, not what you 'wish' things were. This is how it is. Unless you're in climatology, of course.
                               
                              • nevyn21

                                nevyn21 Cosmic Narwhal

                                Why not though? There are discrepencies where prices and values don't conform to other examples. Why should entire branches of play not yield comparable results instead of having a few items that are grossly over-profitable. Promoting a limited playstyle is not an advantage for long-term game health.
                                 
                                • ShneekeyTheLost

                                  ShneekeyTheLost Master Astronaut

                                  Again, that's absolutely correct, but not relevant to the discussion at hand.

                                  We're not discussing 'how to fix the game', we're discussing the numbers that actually exist at this time.
                                   
                                  • bobucles

                                    bobucles Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                                    Which we are. Some numbers clearly give off the impression that they're bogus and they restrict the game's play style as a result.
                                     
                                    • ShneekeyTheLost

                                      ShneekeyTheLost Master Astronaut

                                      That is not something that we can impact in any way, therefore there's no point in complaining about 'fairness' in a thread specifically about crunching the numbers as is.
                                       
                                      • nevyn21

                                        nevyn21 Cosmic Narwhal

                                        The discussion will turn as it will. No-one is being forced to participate. Exploring the why of animals not competeing is on-topic anyway.
                                         
                                          Last edited: Nov 4, 2016
                                        • Shiverwarp

                                          Shiverwarp Starship Captain

                                          Once the numbers have already been crunched, unless there's changes or corrections, all there is left to do is discuss what people hope for or expect. Players can try, or hope to impact a developers decisions, but ultimately it's up to the developer. And good thing too, I've seen some terrible suggestions by players with no regards to actual game impact.
                                           
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