The Inevitable Pokemon Sun/Moon Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Games' started by Hidari, Dec 18, 2016.

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What do you like best about Generation VII?

  1. The new Pokemon!

    11 vote(s)
    47.8%
  2. Alola Formes!

    3 vote(s)
    13.0%
  3. New region to explore!

    7 vote(s)
    30.4%
  4. Upgraded battle UI!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Eh, I just thought the flagship legendaries were kinda cool, but overall it's like... whatever.

    1 vote(s)
    4.3%
  6. Gen I was better! D:<

    1 vote(s)
    4.3%
  1. Hidari

    Hidari Over 9000!!!

    Generation VII is here, and I noticed there wasn't a dedicated thread to sharing your Sun and Moon experience, so here it is! Feel free to discuss how far along in the game you are (please tactfully use spoiler for anything that might be a major surprise!), who you have on your team, what's going on in your Poke Pelago, recent catches, etc. etc.

    While I'm still catching all the new Pokémon, I've also been doing a little research on the side, scouting for potential top new contenders in the competitive scene, since this generation seems to be a little more tailored towards competitive battling, thanks to its upgraded battle UI.

    Z-Moves, I haven't really touched upon much as of yet, but this can also help turn the tide of a fight, making both walls and wall breakers vital assets, as well as protection and screen moves--because when a Z-move fails to make contact, it's still considered used, and I've found that even at half effectiveness, Z-moves can be devastating but not game-ending if you're prepared for it.

    I've been diving into the Alola forms, as well, and I've got a fairly big list to sift through, combined (over 30)!

    Current status: Desperately searching for a Happiny, and contemplating when would be the best time to evolve my Pikachu into Raichu. T-T
     
  2. Corraidhín

    Corraidhín Supernova

    Oh hey! a pokemon thread! I think I will spoil it for oth-*cough* I mean wee fully discuss it with other players!

    I really REALLY love the new generation! ^^ unlike Pokemon Y and X, these ones seem to have much more of an Anthropomorphic look, may of them being outright humanoids. My team is composed of 3 humanoids and 3 normal pokemon (that resemble animals) being Lycanroc (Midnight form), Salazzle, Lurantis, Solgaleo, Torracat (sorry but final evo is sheer disappointment and tears) and uhh... I cant remember my sixth pokemon... I ve changed that poor little one a few times.

    As of Z moves, I rejected them entirely until I finished the game. Now I use them when I REALLY dislike someone.
     
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  3. Hidari

    Hidari Over 9000!!!

    I use them to hilariously KO random encounters with wild Zubat. There's nothing like excessive misuse of deadly force on Pokémon that pop up WAY TOO OFTEN.

    I might have a preexisting hatred for Zubat, but you don't know that. u.u
     
  4. Corraidhín

    Corraidhín Supernova

    Zubat, Golbat, Rattatatatatata everywhere
     
  5. Hidari

    Hidari Over 9000!!!

    Alright, so the first contender I'd like to discuss is Araquanid.

    Araquanid: Water/Bug
    Base Stats: HP 68/Atk 70/Def 92/SpA 50/SpD 132/Spe 42
    Ability: Water Bubble/Water Absorb (Hidden)

    Overview: With its huge special Defense and above-average defense, Araquanid is definitely a special wall. While you might think to not expect much from its low attack scores, Water Bubble effectively doubles the power of its Water moves, effectively granting it 140 base attack and 100 base special attack before STAB. Additionally, Water Bubble halves Fire damage, adding another resistance for a whopping six different resistances!

    Even though it has low speed, it can be ran under Trick Room to give it an edge in battle, or you can use it to trap opponents using Infestation or Spider Web, and then proceed to disable them further using Soak and Entrainment. Alternately, one can use Aqua Ring and Leech Life on top of Leftovers to keep it in the game longer.

    Liquidation is the highest STAB physical Water move it learns, which has a 20% chance of lowering the opponent's defense, but it also benefits by learning Scald, giving it a burn option. It can also learn Ice Beam which helps it deter Flying types, but there is sadly no option for it to deter pesky Electric types.

    Overall, I would recommend a Special Wall build, giving it Leftovers and Leech Life (which had its power quadrupled to 80!), an EV spread of 252HP/252Def/6SpD, and a nature to boost its Def a little more so that it can take incoming physical attacks as well as it does special attacks. As for its other moves, Liquidation would be the optimal choice with Scald being the only other acceptable option (for the Burns!), Ice Beam for coverage, and Infestation/Spider Web to trap.

    My thoughts: Araquanid gets my stamp of approval and my nomination for sleeper nightmare fuel for Gen VII. I also give a special nod of approval to the Pokémon Company for crafting a spider that actually... y'know... plays best as a real spider would act. I would not be surprised to see Araquanid make the charts at the next VGC tournament.
     
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  6. Corraidhín

    Corraidhín Supernova

    Never been into the finer workings of the poke stats, or tournaments myself, however I did notice that Araquanid was quite annoying to encounter even if my own pokemon were around 7 levels higher, imagine a well trained Araqua with a proper move set, it would mop around unprepared foes for sure!
     
  7. Yvejuzul

    Yvejuzul Subatomic Cosmonaut

    While I've been waiting for the update for Pokémon Bank to arrive, I decided I'd breed up different builds of some Pokémon I already have that are waiting in Alpha Sapphire, as well as perhaps one with Defiant should I find the motivation to chain battle a Mankey countless times. Meanwhile, I've decided I'd start breeding the legendary mon I have since maxing out IVs is now possible by way of hyper training, after having just caught whatever legend or mythic and boxing the things into the Bank. So far been having a bit of fun with the Lunala with Battle Buffet, since it takes down most mons at its current level in one hit.

    Festival Plaza's a nice addition, which reminds me plenty of the Join Avenue in Black 2 and White 2. The fun part is partaking in those missions and getting the FCs to spend. Been wanting to get a 3-star Ball Shop for a bit of a while, though. Not having too much luck with that, however.

    Now, my Lunala. I've had this moveset in mind since while training. Modest-nature with the following moves and EV-set:

    Modest (-Atk +SpA)
    252 SpA/252 Spd/4 Def

    Psychic
    Moongeist Beam
    Cosmic Power
    Roost

    Coverage against: Fighting, Poison, Psychic, Ghost

    It might seem strange to some two have the two non-attacking moves as well as maxed Special attack and Speed, but considering its HP with maximum IVs without any investment as is, it's actually something worthwhile, considering the fact that its ability reduces damage at full HP. What I had in my head with this would be have it use Cosmic Power on an opponent that would do neutral damage, then Roost to heal it to maximum HP if it isn't below 50%, and so on, allowing it to boost its defenses, bar a critical hit messing it up, then proceed to go to town with its two offensive moves. Despite having 100BP and only 8PP max, Moongeist Beam would be useful against the likes of opponents that have Sturdy and in Mimikyu's case, Disguise. Feel free to point out the flaws to this and much more.

    Yeah, not a competitive battler to any imagination battler and yet for some reason, I felt like spurting info on this spread because not sleeping yet.
     
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  8. Lil' Mini

    Lil' Mini Phantasmal Quasar

    I know that they were talking about Sun and Moon as a Christmas gift on the radio due to the popularity of Pokemone GO. All I can say about that is the jump from not even all the 151 (I think it was?) to about over 700 is a bit extreme no? :rofl:
     
  9. Hidari

    Hidari Over 9000!!!

    I'm an amateur competitive battler, myself. My claim to "fame" as it were is that I have a complete "Living Pokedex" (at least, up to 6th Gen). After having completed that, I'd finally found myself with little else to do except study a little deeper into the inner mechanics of the game. Seeing as how even the top-tier Pokémon enthusiasts at Smogon have yet to release a full analysis of the new Gen 7 stuff, I figured I'd do my own analysis and see how close to the mark I'd hit. ;3

    Araquanid is as boss as I'd thought, though--it apparently has been showing up fairly frequently in the online scene, but under completely different builds than I expected. Interesting.
     
  10. Corraidhín

    Corraidhín Supernova

    Gotta keep yer enemies guessing, I guess!
     
  11. Hidari

    Hidari Over 9000!!!

    The next contender I'd like to discuss is Bewear.

    Bewear: Normal/Fighting
    Base Stats: HP 120/Atk 125/Def 80/SpA 55/SpD 60/Spe 60

    Overview: Normal/Fighting is a typing only previously seen with Mega Lopunny, and she made a niche market for it. There are, however, a few notable differences. Huge HP and Attack power are complimented with an average defense stat, but feel free to cry into a pillow when you look at its everything else. In contrast, Mega Lopunny has a slightly higher Attack stat and a much higher Speed, but has little in the way of defenses and HP, making her a physical glass cannon. Bewear's move pool is also severely hampered, but it's not a lost cause. Hammer Arm and Superpower swoop in for STAB Fighting, while your Normal STAB options are Thrash, Double-Edge, and Flail (Yes. Flail. Stick with me on this). In terms of coverage options, it can learn Dragon Claw, Earthquake, Rock Tomb, Aerial Ace, Brutal Swing, Shadow Claw, Rock Slide, and you can even breed it to learn Ice Punch and Thunderpunch. It's in the Field egg group, making it super easy to breed thanks to the Smeargle reverse harem. I'll... get into that in another post.

    As far as abilities go, try and get Fluffy, but bewear of fire types if you do. What Fluffy does is that it halves damage from moves that make contact, but it takes double damage from fire type attacks (meaning that Fire type attacks that make contact deal normal damage).

    There's several ways you could approach this, but for every build, I recommend putting 252 into its attack to make it truly monstrous. You can either build for HP, Defense, or Speed, but honestly, I would leave Defense alone since you won't really need it, and invest purely into HP and give it a few points into Speed with a nature that boosts Speed, and give it a Salac berry to hold. Breed for Endure, teach it Earthquake and Swords Dance, and give it Flail.

    Why all the speed enhancements? Well, honestly, it's all about that Salac berry. Since Bewear has no native speed boosting ability, increasing it one stage via the berry, coupled with nature allows you to outspeed most of the true threats to Bewear. Initiate a Swords Dance, hit Endure, and Flail away. Flail's power increases the lower your HP is, which is the reason for all of the HP investments. Since its max HP is 444, and the goal is to have 1 HP, Flail's power will be immense even before STAB. For things that resist or are immune to normal moves, use Earthquake. That gets around Ghost, and hits super effectively against Rock and Steel.

    My thoughts: I personally dislike Bewear, preferring Mega Lopunny over it, but until the Mega stone becomes available (if it even does), Bewear is your only option for wrecking just about everything in your path with little regard for its own life and limb. It's not really my play style, though, but taking into account its potential, it is something you may see in the battle scene online. As far as counters go, burns go a long way. Pelt it with Scald or use Will-O-Wisp, then wear it down with a few Focus Blasts or a boosted Psychic (though a boosted Psychic may be very risky!).
     
  12. Waffle-Chan

    Waffle-Chan Guest

    I honestly hope that we get a Sinnoh remake, because I didn't really like Alola.
     
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  13. Hidari

    Hidari Over 9000!!!

    Just beat the game last night. :DD

    Sooooooo much stuff opens up when you do. @_@
     
  14. Sprvrn

    Sprvrn Title Not Found

    How's the post-game? That's my main concern about this game so far (post game in XY was nowhere to be seen).

    Bought Moon day-one, but I'm not so motivated to play pokémon. Shoot, I got tricked by hype!
     
  15. Hidari

    Hidari Over 9000!!!

    Post game lets you do a lot of the stuff you've been wanting to do in the main storyline. I'd elaborate further on that, but spoilers.

    Not really a spoiler, but there is a version of the Battle Frontier in Sun/Moon called the Battle Tree. Haven't yet gone there, because I've been busy doing other things, such as catching and evolving Pokémon. I really want that Shiny Charm. :I

    Speaking of, I finally caught a Mimikyu. Those things are nightmare fuel, and really hard to get to appear. I gave up the first time, came back during the post game to try again. ...Is it just my imagination, or did the door in the back of the abandoned Thrifty Mart that leads to the back room disappear?! @_@ I hate spooky stuff like that.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It's time for another in-depth Pokémon analysis!

    Today we're looking at Bruxish. Now, I know what you're thinking. I'm thinking it, too. I wouldn't touch this Pokémon with a ten foot pole, but I still threw a Poke Ball at it. From twelve feet away.

    Bruxish: Water/Psychic
    Base Stats: HP 68/Atk 108/Def 70/SpA 70/SpD 70/Spe 92

    Overview: Alright, so let's get crackin'. First of all, this pokemon is garishly hideous. As completely ugly as it is, though, it has some amazing abilities to offer, making multiple builds completely possible. Dazzling is its first ability, which locks out the opponent's Priority moves, including moves boosted to priority status via abilities like Gale Wings, Prankster, and Triage. Strong Jaw is its other ability, boosting all Bite and Fang attacks by 50%. Its hidden ability, Wonder Skin, drops the accuracy of all status-inducing moves to 50% (unless the move is already 50% accuracy or less). Depending on what you want from Bruxish, I'd say that either Dazzling or Strong Jaw would be your best bets.

    It has decent attack and above average speed stats, and average literally everything else. At first, it doesn't seem to stand out in any way, but if you get a nature that boosts speed and EV train it for Attack and Speed, you either have an anti-revenge killer-killer (via Dazzling) or a physical sweeper nightmare piranha (via Strong Jaw).

    It learns very little in the way of physical water moves, to be honest. There's Aqua Jet and Waterfall, at the very least. As far as psychic moves go, Psychic Fangs is what you want. It's your only choice, really. Other notable moves include Crunch, Taunt, Protect, Scald, Swords Dance, Ice Fang, and Poison Fang.

    My recommendation comes in two this time:

    Anti-Revenge/Anti-Priority: Dazzling, 252Atk/252Spe/4HP EV. Jolly nature. Giving it a Choice Scarf will probably be your best bet as you're going to basically be going up against the likes of Talonflame and you'll have to outspeed it since you'll be negating Gale Wings' priority. Moveset ought to be Waterfall, Psychic Fangs, Ice Fang (for other flying types, such as Togekiss or Dragonite), and Poison Fang (for fairy types and speedy bug types, and the occasional grass type). Save this one for when you see a speedy threat that likely will use priority driven moves to finish off your somewhat weakened Pokémon, and switch in for a free and painless switch, select the appropriate move, and go to town.

    Nightmare Piranha (Physical Sweeper): Strong Jaw, 252Atk/252Spe/4HP EVs. Adamant or Jolly nature. Having it hold a Life Orb gives it a grand total of an 80% boost to its attack power(!) when using bite and fang attacks. Give it Swords Dance, Psychic Fangs, Ice Fang, and either Crunch or Poison Fang. Setting up with a single Swords Dance should be enough to OHKO most pokemon that are neutral to Psychic and Dark moves. Save the Ice Fang for Dragon, Flying, or Grass types, but be wary of Electric and Steel types, like Magnezone. This build should make you just fast enough and more than powerful enough to take out just about any threat.

    My Thoughts: I'd rather not, but on paper, it's freakishly powerful. Your best bet at taking one of these out is either a really fast electric type that doesn't need priority (like Magnezone and Raichu) or a Steel type with good physical defenses as it naturally will take Bruxish's attacks like a friggin' champ, if not force a switch out.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2016
  16. Hidari

    Hidari Over 9000!!!

    Bonus analysis time! Mostly because I'm bored and this is actually pretty fun for me.

    Comfey: Fairy
    Base Stats: HP 51/Atk 52/Def 90/SpA 82/SpD 110/Spe 100

    Overview: Forget about Flower Veil and its hidden ability, Natural Cure; this Pokémon's abilities are best served with Triage. Triage, Triage, Triage. Triage gives priority to healing moves, and the only reason to run Comfey is in Multi Battles. If you're looking for a solo battle healer, go pick up a Sylveon, instead. Above average Defense and amazing Special Defense, coupled with a great Speed stat (and priority!) makes Comfey the go-to choice for Multi Battle healing. Its average Special Attack also allows it to get in a cheap shot or two when its partner is fully healed.

    While you can run Comfey in a grass-heavy team, this is generally not a good idea as Fairy types struggle to damage Fire types (x1/2), and since Grass's common threats from Ice and Flying moves run rampant in the meta, Comfey will be struggling to keep up on the damage mitigation scene. This means its grass-only support moves are somewhat pointless to run, which makes move selection that much easier.

    Since we're going for Party Healer status, giving Comfey the move Floral Healing is key. Since Floral Healing's boosted to 2/3 instead of the normal 1/2 under the effect of Grassy Terrain, we might want to consider giving Comfey that move, too. Aromatherapy cures the status of ALL of your party, so this is also a key move for it to have. For the last move slot, we have a few things to consider:

    Are we giving it Grassy Terrain? If so, we've got one slot. If not, then there's room for two. Grassy Terrain provides a LOT of boons. It gives a Leftovers effect to all of the Pokémon on the field (helpful in multi battles!), halves the effectiveness of Earthquake, Magnitude, and Bulldoze (which your Poison, Steel, Fire, and Electric allies will GREATLY appreciate), and the attack power of all of your Grass type moves is boosted by 50% (your Venusaur will LOVE you).

    Giving it Grassy Terrain, though, forces you to make a choice. Do you give it a way to heal itself, or do you want an attack option? If you don't give it Grassy Terrain, you can easily give it Synthesis and Dazzling Gleam. If you do, you'll have to choose.

    One might argue that because its defenses are so high, you won't need Synthesis if you run Grassy Terrain and stack Leftovers, but you'll lose out on the turn-extending and aptly named Terrain Extender, which reduces the frequency in which you need to use the move. But what about Protect? That's another move you can use that would keep your Comfey safe. Let's mull this over and say that practical application will require testing. Here's my suggested setup, along with contingency builds.

    252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD, Bold Nature.
    Held: Terrain Extender (With Grassy Terrain)/Leftovers (Without Grassy Terrain)

    Move 1: Floral Healing
    Move 2: Aromatherapy
    Move 3: Grassy Terrain/Synthesis/Protect
    Move 4: Synthesis/Dazzling Gleam/Protect

    If you're going for Grassy Terrain, having Synthesis might put you in a sticky situation where you have to choose to heal Comfey or your ally. Having Protect instead might mitigate this if it's obvious that they're gunning for your dainty White Mage. Alternatively, if they're running types that fairies have an easy time steamrolling, Dazzling gleam might be worth it, and you can put your 4 extra points into Special Attack instead of Special Defense. If you're not going for Grassy Terrain, Synthesis and Dazzling Gleam or Protect might be worth your time. Personally, given that type of scenario, I'd frankly lean towards Dazzling Gleam and Protect to keep the pressure on the opponent. I think I'd prefer to run the Grassy Terrain version, though, and give it either Dazzling Gleam or Protect. Dazzling Gleam, in case I neglected to mention earlier, is basically Hyper Voice with 10 less base power and a natural Fairy typing.

    My Thoughts: I've always loved the idea of having a healer on my team, and in singles, I swear by Sylveon. I have, however, always noticed that in Multi Battles, Sylveon was always a little tricker to run, and Comfey seems to fill this role a lot better. A little trial and error will have to go into testing with Multi Battle healer Comfey, but I think it will do very well. Comfey gets my stamp of approval for best special wall healer from the seventh generation.
     
  17. Firebird Zoom

    Firebird Zoom Master Astronaut

    Question: How would you trade Pokemon from Black 2 to Sun?
     
  18. Yvejuzul

    Yvejuzul Subatomic Cosmonaut


    There is something among the lines of such. To do so, you need to first transfer from Black 2 to the sixth generation games X, Y, Omega Ruby or Alpha Sapphire by way of Pokémon Transporter, which you'd need a subscription of Pokémon Bank for if you don't have such already.
    Then, from there you transfer from those sixth gen games by the same way to Sun and Moon. However, Bank and Transporter are not yet compatible with Sun and Moon, thus you'll have to wait a while for an update to be able to accomplish such. Update is said to be coming next month, 2017.

    Anyway, managed to get my Festival Plaza well past 100, and now planning on working on having 10,000 FC on hand by the end of this year. So far around 9,400 of such, so it shouldn't take that much longer now, depending on what time people are doing missions. I'd love to get a five-star Big Dreams, so I might have a chance at getting another Master Ball. I managed some time ago to get a Gold Bottle Cap from my five-star Treasure Hunt.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2017
  19. Hidari

    Hidari Over 9000!!!

    I apologize for seemingly abandoning this thread towards the end of December, but I juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust got back from a very long business trip and spent the first half of January playing with my SUPER ADORABLE CORGI PUPPY so yeah.

    Nobody really missed this thread much, anyway, but! I shall persevere and keep analyzing Pokemons and whatnot. If anyone has a particular Pokémon-related request, please ask. ;o Whether it be analysis, breeding help, or whatever.
     
    Firebird Zoom likes this.
  20. JoftheTman

    JoftheTman Void-Bound Voyager

    I really enjoyed Sun. I've always wanted a truly tropical Pokemon region and Alola definitely delivered. I love a ton of the new Pokemon. (though I'm sad they all got spoiled before the game's release) All of the simple UI fixes and shortcuts make life so much easier. (Poke-ride replacing HM's, improved battle UI are often mentioned, but my personal fave, SIMPLIFIED PC. None of this, 'whose PC?', withdraw, deposit, items, nonsense. Just straight to pogeys.) I loved the characters in this game, and will be genuinely sad that come next Pokemon game (unless its Stars but the plot might be different)((FYI Eclipse would be a way cooler name)), I won't be seeing Hau, and Lillie and others throughout my journey. I ADORED Team Skull. Filthy memers as they are. I loved the spin they put on the traditional Pokemon formula with Trials and Kahunas replacing Gyms. (However this does put Pokemon in a predicament for future games)
    As for its problems, the post-game was... just OK. It's no Delta Episode. The Battle Tree and Battle Royal really aren't my style. (Especially considering some Battle Tree trainers use actual Hackmons. No joke.) The beginning was a little slow, but frankly I don't blame them. Pokemon Go created a large group of new fans unfamiliar to main-series Pokemon games, so I think a tutorial is fine, I just wished there was a skip option.
    I've occupied myself in the post-game by SOS-hunting for shinies. So far I've caught a Crabrawler, a Sandygast, an Eevee, and a Feebas. I've failed to catch a shiny Cubone twice, and I think I lost 10 years of my life thanks to that. Right now I'm trying out the Masuda-Method for a Tyrunt I transferred from X.
    My team throughout the entire game consisted of Incineroar (I considered naming him 'InCENAroar', but I'm not a horrible person. HOWEVER, I do make an effort to shout "LET'S SETTLE THIS IN THE RING BROTHERRRRR!!!" every time I use its Z-Move) Toucannon (Named Sam. Like Toucan Sam. Like Fruit Loops. JOKES.) Alolan Persian (Named LASAGA. Possibly the most beautiful creature I've ever had the privilege to behold) Araquanid (I had no idea what a Dewpider was, so I caught it, needing a water type, and man, this thing is SCARY) Vikavolt (Named Railgun, because, why not. It was a Charjabug for so long so I never really got to test out its DESTRUCTIVE POWER) and finally, Midday Lycanroc (Named Doggo. Because borf. Accelrock has saved me on so many occasions)
    In case you can't tell, I was a big fan. I'd give it a not-really-that-thought-through rating of 9/10. Now that the tropical region has been delivered, i just hope we get a region that focuses more on freshwater. Lakes, Rivers, Wetlands, that sort of deal.
     

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