The First Mission defiantly, needs looking into.

After Reading through the threads I think the first boss is outta place in difficulty. In addition the first mission definitely needs checkpoints or to stop resetting on death. When ever I read a thread I see three groups. Players trying to beat the mission asking for help, players who realize that the mission maybe to tough for new players(but beat it/skipped it) and finally the players that say the mission is to easy.

* The first group of players are people who haven't played the unstable version of SB. That leaves this first encounter with a boss to be legit first encounter. They have no clue what to expect then a laser appears and starts moving toward them. To these players the phase one is simple enough. As the speed of the laser is slow enough to dodge with only a little skill at platforming. Some players may try shooting or slicing/smashing it, they'll learn that wont work. Leaving them with the only option this dungeon has been teaching them to do, hit the switches. Some saw the switches first so never try to hit the boss with normal weapons. After hitting all the switches these players will then hit the cannon looking thing at the bottom and damage the boss. Then the player sees the signs that four lasers are about to appear and gets ready to rotate with them. This is where most players die once, twice, or even a lot more. Not because the lasers increased in number. It is because they increased in number, speed and (it seems to me at least) damage. These factors kill the player in a matter of seconds, before they can learn what to do. Now combine that with the fact that they now have to do the entire mission over again. Now I'd tell you what phase three of the boss is, but I never reached it.

* The second group of players beat/skipped the mission, and understand that it is more difficult than it should be. Now what do I mean by that? Should all missions in a game be easy ? "No." Should the first boss (the boss that resets the whole level and blocks off most of the games content) be able to kill players in just a few seconds? "Maybe not." I wont give a play by play on this group of people because they don't need one. The ones that beat it will sometimes try to help players who have not. The ones that skipped likely never beat it, but weren't willing to let that stop them form testing the rest of the game.

*The third set is a group of players that are exceeding good at this game. Either through talent or shear time put into the game. However whenever I see them on this forum I noticed a trend. They've beat this mission, and they love the challenge of the boss. This causes a minority to see the first group as bad players. Some of their post come off with a "you suck, get good" vibe. They do this because they fear the game getting changed to a full on easy mode. I'm currently a bit bias to this group mainly because I see them offering no real feed back. That said I've been on their side before on other games so I understand what might be going through their heads.

Now that I filled up this page with some words. Would ya'll like to offer your feed back on the subject?

 

Haha, I'm copying something I wrote in another thread, but fits better in this one.


I think the first missions and stuff SHOULD be easy. I'll use Super Mario World as an example.

Virtually anyone here can finish Super Mario World, but few people could pass from the Tubular using less than 5 lives, for example. The conclusion here is obvious, the most difficult stages of Super Mario World (and several other games) are OPTIONAL... Since even the final boss is pretty easy. Still, it's a great game!

Dat difficulty level should actually work (not only give penalties, c'mon). Leave some traps appear in normal mode (like spikes), make that the game hard only if players want!

That's it.

 

This mission made me give up on the game for a while. I'm pretty mediocre at metroidvania esq. games. I died once to that hammer guy that chases you because I wasn't immediately notified of what to do. Then, I die to him AGAIN because I got stuck. I finally get to the boss, unprepared, died and just stopped playing. If it weren't for it being necessary to progress, I'd come back later. However, I DON'T want to be FORCED to do that again to just actually enjoy the game. I really hope they take a look at checkpoints, at least. The boss seemed simple enough, but 1 death shouldn't force you to do the ENTIRE mission over again, that's absurd.

 

Or make unlockable (or better yet, findable) hard bosses.

 

I think he's a great boss, but he's a horrible first boss.

Not only because he's so unforgiving, but because he gates the FTL drive. Thanks to this game's sandbox nature, it is going to have an appeal outside of twitch gamers. There is a reason barren planets were added. The game can't have such an early gate that requires skills a good chunk of the playerbase simply won't have, simple as that. The level of challenge isn't that relevant.

That said, it's not like he has to be completely replaced. Making some of his mechanics more forgiving and introducing a checkpoint system would be great. Adding an optional hardcore version of him somewhere later on is a fine compromise.

 

I don't exactly fit into any of those categories... Maybe the second one is closest.

I didn't beat the boss and didn't technically skip it either. It just didn't exist when I went through it the first time. If you call that skipping then I have to wonder on that definition. Although the part about continuing on is half true. I wanted to see what all the fuss was about, so I just got finished doing the boss. Granted due to my equipment it was easy being in durasteel. ><

I mainly just wanted to see the boss, and from that I can actually see what people mean. At first from the descriptions it sounded like it was all vertical, and when I actually saw the room it was more circular. At least now I understand what the fuss was about, and I pretty much agree. Even with the shield I had it broke it every time that I didn't do a perfect block. I think I only did that like twice. Of course I didn't get killed due to obvious health difference, but I can see that I would have.

That whole room and the room with the chest next door did not exist, at all. It was just that digging machine at the bottom when I dropped down. Also I don't remember that shaft being that long and that secret area of to left in that long hole wasn't there either. Nor the bed chamber before the boss. So that whole portion of that part has changed for myself. Yes I play on unstable.

I do plan on going through it again with what I had originally, which was not much. I mean the crossbow was good enough and the 2-handed sword was decent... didn't have a shield, as I didn't even know you could make one. >< Only had jump tech and one of the others, possibly bouncey since I don't really like the dash tech.

Before the boss, I say I loved the place; going through it to just turn off the digging machine. Which was what it was before the boss. The place was tricky enough to get through, but manageable at that time. I am in no what good at platforming, but ok I guess due to my experience with platformers in the past, like all stars & sonic adventure...

That beam though, even if you could time when to go you are going to get hit no matter what. The first stage I can see why people say that is easy... second and third basically the same as each other, but the third being more tricky with the beam. That I was not really fond off. Good for a higher tier character, not so good for someone starting out. Seeing the behavior and learning the moves of this thing, that part was pretty easy. excecuting it I could say I probably would have had to do that a few times. I will have to get back to you on that one once I played a few times with the equipment I had before. I am such a packrat, guess I'll have to dust and polish those for a brutal beating...><

The main thing I don't like about that room is there is no exit. You have to tele back to ship. That also was not like that when I first went through. You had to go back to the surface to tele back to ship. You can't get back to surface after you step foot into the boss room, unless I missed something. Just would be nice to be able to go back up and look around some more. I would have found that frustrating after beating the boss, or more like when... Can't say I did this time as I was just seeing behavior of it.

I also agree with most that mention the checkpoint part, that would be handy. And a way to unlock or open that door leading out of the room so I can look around more. I found it un-nerving that I couldn't technically just go back and see how to get into that new secret room, unless I started the mission over. Well I know I'll be doing that a few times, in the very least to know how I would feel fighting the boss with what I had originally... But for now my bed is somewhat calling to me...><

 

Errrr... I'd like to point out that checkpoints alone will not solve the problem for everyone. (See Gradius. )


Apparently the difficulty choice should be something that you can change in the game options (in the main menu only), not something that is "attached permanently" to the character.

This way the level of the missions, bosses and even the polemic reinclusion of the hunger and/or temperature could be better designed. Examples:

Easy: Checkpoints, well lit dungeons, easier bosses, no hunger, no temperature, no penalties...

Normal: Less checkpoints, darker dungeons, some traps, not so easy bosses, some penalities... And so on.

 

I do agree with Chekcpoints. 100%. It's annoying navigating the entire distance back. Other than that, I felt the difficulty was pretty spot on in regards to the challenge. The switches in the room are obvious, and after a try or two it becomes a bit more clear on what to do. I'm okay that it took me a couple minutes to figure out. I like that the difficulty is based on your skill and puzzle aptitude. Naturally that'll be more difficult for those not familiar with those gameplay aspects.

I don't see how they can tie difficulty into the puzzle aspect of the game outside of being able to "deploy" to a specific difficulty of the instance (sense the level is instanced). Maybe have three options when you deploy (easy, normal, hard). But to tie it into the regular difficulty options (casual, etc) would be very hard and would change the game in all areas outside the dungeon. It would be easy to handle with instances though, just like MMOs have Normal and Heroic dungeon options.

 

I dont think the boos is hard- but by the time you get there you arent prepared, get killed, realize you have to start again, get grumpy, die again, repeaat.

If the hammer guys were easier to kill, and maybe a checkpoint near the boss room, I think you wouldnt have to change the actual boss at all.
Still havent beaten him though. :c

 

Yeah, I'm totally with you on the checkpoints. When my friends and I died at different times it left the other to try to survive until we got back down there. Was fun the first time...not so much running back the second. Need checkpoints or "binding beacons" or something.

 

I was in the second group but I just tonight made a brand new character to get it with no advantages at all. First try on the boss I got far with my shield due to perfect blocks but... I died. Second try I got it using a 2 handed sword parry approach to blocking the lasers and that worked great.

For those wanting a checkpoint if you die... There's a bit of an exploit to get back to the boss quickly. At the first rubble pile when you first go down into the base you can crouch and use energy dash to glitch through the tiny opening and that puts you nearly at the end of the level.

 

Okay so, I just got to the third phase and it seems impossible to dodge! My shield couldnt block, and as far as I could see there wasnt any sort of safezone where I could stand? Plus, its very easy to die from fall damage at the top...



Edit: It seems as if hes only beatable with a shield? Thats a little unfair/

 

Your sheild couldn't block? Was it broken from earlier hits? Try taking a 2 handed sword, right click will parry and block. You can't hold it as long as a shield but it will get you through a laser without damage.

 

I'm not certain I agree that the boss should be easy just because it's the first boss, I mean easy/difficult is so subjective that I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean in the first place. As someone who didn't personally have any real issues working with the mechanics of the boss, I would be disappointed if the boss was made easier. I'm willing to concede a couple of things though. The game might not be doing a good job in building up to this boss. It may well be the case that I'm getting by on past experiences in other games so dodging, healing on the fly, avoiding falling damage and blocking all at the same time while flicking switches is just this thing that I was doing anyway.

Would it help if the game was building up its expectations of you (and thus teaching you), the player, in a "gentler" way so to speak. That is to say, do you feel that right now this boss has basically kicked you out of the nest, expecting you to learn to fly before you hit the ground if you didn't already know how to do so? Or is the problem that you don't actually want to have to learn how to deal with bosses like these in the first place? I'm not insinuating that either of these are bad, but I would imagine some people are opposed to "difficult boss fights" in the first place, although what is and isn't difficult obviously varies from player to player. Would something as simple as a checkpoint do the trick, meaning the boss would still insist that you block/dodge, avoid falling, heal and all that - otherwise death.

I mean I realize your post should give me an idea of where you're at but the questions are really for everyone. That and I'm not sure whether you specifically want difficult things (again, whatever that means) to be entirely optional or if you would be fine if the expectations increased in a more gradual way.

 

Difficulty settings would be key. On easy bosses setting you beat the boss after 1 phase, normal -> 2 phases, hard->3 or more ->legendary -> boss stats are higher, timing is tighter, and its relentless.
Edit---
A difficulty check is fairly easy to program in, the program just checks the difficulty level before changing phases.
I assume the bosses have a parent class and their core functionality runs off that parent. Put the difficulty check in one time after each phase (the last state in the phase) and bobs your uncle.

Or better yet make the difficulty check a state to save code.

state specific movement code
state specific Graphical code

if (endStateTimer==0){
//end battle check
if (difficulty<phase){stateNext=die;}
else{phase+=1;stateNext=spawnBoss;}
//state spawnBoss checks the phase and sets up the necessary aspects and assets for that boss.
}
else{endStateTimer-=1}
It's certainly more complicated than that, as you have to have the boss fake die or whatever the state transition is for the difficuly<phase being false, and that is its own state,
but that is the general oversimplification of the idea. As it is just a check, it may happen so fast it wont need graphics or movement, its just a one cycle check that would be invisible to the eye even if it drops the graphics.

 

Once someone told me the lasers stopped when you went underneath the bottom platform, the boss fight then became ridiculously easy. Most fights in starbound seem to be about figuring out how to cheese your way through them.

 

I was playing on normal and beat it on my third try just take bandages

 

I apologize if I get a bit rant-y here.

The first problem as I see it is the assumption that one phase would be normal, which I would call somewhat debatable. Secondly (if it was up to me) then I have to say I don't personally like using difficulty settings in this way. The reason for this is that I don't think there's anything wrong in expecting players to step it up in order to see the rest of the game. The boss might be hitting a bit too hard, and maybe the mission needs a checkpoint somewhere along the way, but by letting players make the game as trivial as they need it to be I'm just making the assumption that they're incapable of actually learning. More importantly, I'd be giving up the responsibility to actually teach you through the game and/or level design, as well as a difficulty curve that isn't all over the place.

I could have the wrong approach or mindset, of course, but I really don't think this boss encounter is that problematic in and of itself, the mechanics don't seem outright unreasonable. One thing that could help in general is to actually introduce players to the mechanics beforehand. As an example, a natural way (though not necessarily the best one, or the one that makes the most sense) of easing the player into things would be to have beams like the ones the boss uses actually appear in the mission itself. Perhaps with the, at the time, obvious intention of teaching you about perfect blocks or just general avoidance. Whereas in reality it prepares you for how they will be moving and behaving later on or...well...anything, really.

Ideally this comes with audio-visual cues so that when you run into the boss, that sound and/or visual immediately calls back to what you've learned before. It's not just about giving the player the cues though, because a fair amount of people probably got the basic gist of it as soon as the boss began to charge up the beams. It also just helps set the expectations, and helps ensure that if you can deal with the stage hazards then you're reasonably well equipped to deal with the boss, y'know.

That, along with a checkpoint, would as far as I'm concerned be more effective than just letting players turn the encounter into a trivial, one phase non-boss. If the damage still proves to be too much then I believe you'd have to adjust it much less than if you didn't prepare the player for the boss in the first place.

...does that make any sense?

 

with everyone complaining about how hard it was I decided to try it
strategy: steel armor (duh) 2 shields (total perfect block strategy) energy dash (to cross the bottom faster) and pulse jump (to climb faster)

this was a very fun challenge, pretty difficult, and annoying at times. I thought this was a pretty good fight, but not as a first boss
even with dual shields I am having trouble with it, and I dont expect new players to immediately think of using them either

this boss should either be toned down, or changed and the mechanics saved for later

 

This could be solved with one or two simple changes to the layout of the room.

Small walls here and there to hide behind. Not many, just like one or two. Make em small, so you have to duck for full protection.