The communication problems are not about too little communication.

The funny thing about it is that the point of the forums is to have an open and lengthy discussion, these are forums not a chat room

 

@OP: Careful with bringing logic into these forums. I've seen what happens when people decide to dogpile someone, no matter how stupid, irrational or fallacious their methodology.
Gang mentality takes over. I've even seen a bit of it here in this topic.

Anyway...I agree completely. On one hand, I have no reason to question Tiy's end objectives, and it's the main reason I try not to throw shit at the devs casually.
On the other, they badly need to evaluate what they're capable of promising and delivering at the given time. Not an easy task for any complex project, but a necessary one.

The 2013 Beta "deadline" is in serious jeopardy, with only ~3.4 months to go and no real concrete end to the alpha in sight. (at least, from the public's perspective)
Last night, I was essentially trolled for claiming how the backlash was becoming more severe each time it happened, yet that's what is happening, and this "Overpromising, Underdelivering" is precisely the cause.
People are getting tired of missed deadlines and broken promises, the "defenders" are getting tired of protecting Tiy and Co and it's only getting worse as those promises continue to go undelivered.

 

TLDR is a plague on the internet. It just makes trolls more trolly and intelligent people have to dumb it down for those too <insert whatever word here> to take their time to read what someone else took even longer to write. If a post has "tldr" in it it's usually a sign that the author doesn't find what they just wrote important enough.

 

You lost all cred when you link John Carmack with Daikatana.....that was john Romero bro.

I understand your point, and I think it has some validity...but the lack of patience of some folks just reminds me of a bunch of 5 year old kids. Relax, play something else in the meantime or find a hobby. I Think the game looks fantastic, and have no issues waiting...Heck, I waited 10 years for Diablo 3.


Paco

 

they need to hire this man

 

You're absolutely right. I mixed up the two guys named John who both worked in senior positions on Daikatana. Throw the whole post out, it's all useless now.

 

This post made me laugh. It's just a game, not the end of the world. There are plenty of other thing to do, like go outside...

 

That was sarcasm, please read the rest of my post. I will make one more correction, John Carmack and ID had NOTHING to do with Daikatana. That was Mr. Romero's & Tom Hall's company called ION STORM responsible for that trash. Romero was fired from ID Software years before that horrible game was made.

 

I haven't read the whole thread, but the OPs logic has been stated several times in the past in other threads. This community just moves too darn fast and no one wants to read pages, upon pages before posting... similar to what I just did

I agree with you 100% though...

 

again, read above
For me tldrs help convey what the writer is saying in a shorter and more concise manner. I don't see it as a plague on the internet. I see them as more of a "preface" for the lack of a better word.

 

Agreed.

On the Internet I feel like there way too many people with way too much of nothing to say. We aren't obligated to devote time out of our day to listen to you, the wordsmith of the web, so give us a break down so that we can quickly determine if your longer ramblings are worth the effort.

TL;DR can be read in many ways. For me, it means: "You're ranting, and I don't really care enough about you to grant you the time to read your wall of text. Sum it up, and perhaps I'll return to the top of your post for clarity."

In the case of the OP, there were really only a few main points that could have been summarized easily. A summary, however, would have probably let everyone know that these really aren't groundbreaking observations of CF's operations, and we could have returned to one of the other myriad discussions raising critique of the dev teams abilities. Instead, we trudge through a visual wall of griping, stirring up old complaints about timeliness and communication, eventually returning us to the unending cycle that is the CF forum "great debate".

TL;DR: tldr - use it.

 

Again, you're absolutely right. I'm mistaken on a few decades-old details about the careers of 2 game programmers. Throw the entire post out, it's useless.

 

And that is how you eloquently explain something.

 

TL;DR: Prefacing with TL;DR is a good way for the writer to target others that may not read their post entirely, but it's not the writer's obligation to make the reader comfortable, because this is not a formal venue of discussion, despite it being in their best interest. TL;DR is often over-used and has become a trolling 'right'... in my opinion.

While I can share and respect everyone's opinion that TL;DR saves time, I will disagree that they ever have to be used.

1. This forum, like most online, is not a formal venue of discussion; it's informal and therefore not the writer's obligation to make the readers comfortable, despite it being in the writer's best interest.
2. There isn't a rule that members of this forum must read posts or threads at all or even in their entirety. Doing so will give the reader a much better understanding of the OP intentions, but nothing enforces it.
3. There isn't a rule that says you must respond to posts or threads; however, if you do, there is a general implied rule that your response should be civil and add to the OP conversation.

The OP did essentially TL;DR without actually using TL;DR... 4th sentence of the OP standing on its own was a very good summary of his post.

All that was needed was for everyone that wanted a TL;DR to have some patience and read four sentences, which brings me to my next point. If it's too much of a bother for someone to read four sentences before judging someone's post, then it's probably not in anyone's best interest for that person to respond.

 

I agree with you here. I was responding to the critique of the use of 'TL;DR' - not the OP.

However, on the subject of the OP, I would say that you're right again: The poster could have revised the post and excluded everything but the relevant text ---> the 4th sentence. Clarity is a useful tool in communication. It is especially helpful in the digital environment when misunderstanding one another is commonplace.

 

I decided to try and verbalize a joke in this thread, something about "opinions are like a**holes, everybodies got one... and when you share it in public you're bound to offend someone" and then somehow tying that into a Po joke... but yeah, i'm in a food coma from the Chipotle burrito I just had, so nevermind.

 

Oh man, I'm totally eating a burrito right now.

 

Burrito high-five!

 

Not everything a person says is a promise.

 

You bring up some good points, but one thing I'd like to point out is that it's far too late to say "ETA: 2014". That would be a huge mistake, I can only imagine the backlash it would create. The best they can do at this point is go with their original ETA of 2013.

Actually, thinking about it - how many people would really be interested in the game if it had an estimated release date of 2014 way back at the beginning of 2012? I'm sure there would be a decent surge of interest when it resurfaced, but the whole release date thing has kept people trailing along without really hurting their sales (I assume, maybe some people have been turned away by the constant stream of negativity on these forums). I guess there isn't really a definitive answer, there are too many variables.