Stormquake's Character Tier List V 1.0.2

I'm sorry, I am going to have to disagree.

False, just straight up false. STEADY AIM has a 50% damage fall off for each enemy hit, that means that the third enemy you hit is already taking 25% damage, for mobbing even if you get a fully charged STEADY AIM without getting annihilated by the crowd chasing you, it still is only going to kill 2-4 mobs (depending on items), which later on in the game is piss poor for AoE.

Also, claiming that it is easy to find a safe camping spot against boss monster is a little misleading, first you need to run like a screaming little girl until the monster stop spawning, and then if the boss monster is positioned juuuust right you can maybe get an easy kill on it. Not to mention that many of the bosses can't really be cheesed (though those bosses are usually pretty easy).

Once again, false. First of all, neither MILITARY TRAINING nor STEADY AIM give CC (Crowd Control), also even combining the two he is still one of the worst kiters in the game (Huntress is by far the best, followed by acrid, then it is a toss-up between engineer, commando, bandit). Hell, I would say enforcer can kite better then sniper now that you can move with his shield up.

Whaaaaat? Okay, so he has the worst AoE in the game, he is the only character that has to stand still to deal damage and is therefore most likely the most brittle character in the game. How in god's green acres did you think of this? Sniper is one of the most item reliant classes in the game! Without offensive items, you only plink down 1-3 mobs per STEADY AIM (which makes you take far too long and ramps up the difficulty), without defensive items you just straight up die when you are forced to fight clumps of mobs in small places (known as the jar-of-ants scenario) thanks to your only damaging skill of any consequence requiring you to stand still, and without movement items it becomes incredibly difficult to put distance between you and the mobs, sure MILITARY TRAINING helps, but it only really gets you an additional half a second or so charging time.


Are you like exclusively playing on DRIZZLE or exclusively multiplayer? Because on both MONSOON and solo Sniper's deficits are incredibly noticeable. Sorry if the tone of my post sounded offensive, I am just more baffled then anything, and don't get me wrong I love the sniper (tied for second fav class), but he does have major issues.

 

Testing nearly done. Being able to back completely against walls ans walk backwards when missile swarms start on Enforcer is so ridiculously helpful. Sniper still feels lackluster. Will be playing a bit of Miner to see if Enforcer will move up and take his spot.

 

Are we talking about the same red missiles from elite mobs? Because they've always been able to hit me square in the back every time. The shield walk has been able to magically negate Vagrant's balls though.

I stand corrected, admittedly I don't often let things gather up to a point where the AoE damage falls off into redundancy.

Not even cheesed, Vagrant and Worm can both be timed to get a full charged Steady Aim without you eating up any damage. Mobs can most certainly throw a spanner in the works, but not always, especially when you are quick enough about it.

Sure, I'm referring to the word CC a bit loosely since Steady Aim doesn't exactly give stun, and when it actually reaches a point where you can call it a crowd, Steady Aim start to lose its charm, but to rate even Bandit above him? That's harsh.

I have to stand still less with him than Commando, in fact, I wouldn't be surprised that Commando and Bandit stands still longer for their Z than Sniper whilst dealing less Damage Per Second, Snipe doesn't really leave you immobile for all that long compare to other classes' Z. Sure, if you count the reload time and time between shots into the DPS calculation, things are a bit different, but this is why you should be continuously hopping along, putting distance between you and the enemy between every shot to make the most efficient use of your time.

I'll admit that on-kill trigger items are quite handy with Sniper, but I've not felt that they were of any necessity, even more so with defensive items when you time your roll well enough. Hoofs and Jetpacks are almost necessities for soloing boss but that kinda applies to all classes.

Solely in Rainstorm, both in single and multiplayer games. Sure, when a huge crowd begin to gather up, your AOE might as well not be there, but the idea is to not let it reach that point through good kiting, and a roll+perfect reloaded Steady Aim helps you do that quite well - not Huntress/Acrid/Eng well by any stretch of the imagination, but certainly a country mile ahead of the rest.

Also, I can see Sniper having some trouble getting past that 1 hour mark on a farming run, I haven't been bored enough to try that, but for normal gate/boss rush runs, it has been mostly smooth sailing (except when I don't have a single hoof or jetpack).

I just honestly do not see Sniper ranking below Commando in any way shape or form. Sure, Commando is amazing once you've acquired all the right on-hit and AoE items, but when you haven't, he absolutely struggles to kill anything in a timely fashion.

 

Perhaps you are just not good at Enforcer and good at Sniper.
This tier list has been crafted from rainstorm and monsoon games and I've played every class equally to the point of near-mastery. Enforcer can walk backwards and completely avoid missiles. Sniper still has awful crowd control.

 

^ I dunno how what I was pointing out regarding enforcer has anything to do with being good or not, but after just trying out another solo Enforcer run, it seems like shield backpedal does work against missiles aiming at the back, I guess I was previously getting hit during the slight pause from firing Z. Even then, the AoE monsters can still wreck havoc on you when not managed properly, and Enforcer is still worse than even Hand-D vs Providence: shield offers no protection against the ground stun whilst Providence's normal slash attack counts as AoE and can still hit you if it reaches past your shield.

 

I have to play Sniper some more on single player Monsoon, but I think the crowd control is at least average for him. I can typically kite a group, Military Training into a Steady Aim. I usually get to 33% - 45% charge and fire. While there is the damage drop off on additional mobs, you're hitting multiple mobs at once, and typically getting multiple item procs from each one. Especially with something like Wisp. I agree that he can't compete with the likes of the Merc or Commando, but I don't think he's as bad as he's being made out to be. He's not fast, but, if you're doing it right, he IS safe. Just kite, flip, fire. Rinse, repeat.

I think I'd put him in tier 4, personally, pressing Enforcer down to tier 5 due to pure lack of mobility. That said, I think it makes more sense if it's simply a 1-10 ordered list and not a tiered system, since I don't think he's too much better than the enforcer. Made for co-op play, i think.

 

Decided to do a Monsoon Sniper run, and this is (honestly) the first time result:

Understandably this is more of a crappy bragging right than a solid proof that Sniper is way better than what people give him credit for, but really, no Jetpacks, no Hoofs, no Infusions, no Alien Head, no Beating Embryo, so no vital game-changing items for him on the run at all aside from Scythe and Wisp (and sure, Shield Generator plus a squad of drones are quite deadly too and what really carried me through the final stage). This was actually a gate rush run, ie, no farming (despite it being a particularly long run thanks big annoying maps: Caverns, Valley, Magma), and it went pretty smoothly.

Sorry if it sounds like nothing but brag (admittedly I am rather excited to pull this off the first try), but it's really just to give me some solid ground to stand on to say what I say and to show that Sniper is nowhere near as impossible a solo class as people claim him to be, I'd like to see how the likes of Commando, Bandit and Enforcer can pull this off at the same pace with similarly subpar item sets.

 

I don't see how any class needs hooves and/or jetpacks to solo a boss, except maybe the magma worm as Enforcer (because EVERY HIT from that guy is AoE).

 

han-d uses hooves and jetpacks for kiting and chasing
that's all i know

 

Man, I've almost given up completely trying to argue with people who think the Sniper doesn't have issues. How many times have I done this already...

Also, I'm surprised you made it through that whole post without saying "Jar of Ants" even once.

... I was kinda hoping that'd catch on...

EDIT: OH, NO WAIT. YOU DID! YES. AWESOME.

Holy cow, THREE Crowbars? AND Three Ol' Loppers!? That's actually a pretty incredible setup right there for the Sniper. The Wisp in a Bottle is just icing on that cake.

That's not to say your win isn't impressive. I have yet to beat Monsoon as ANY character (but I blame that on my own lack of skill).

I have to ask, though, because it's important. What was your use item, there? I can't quite tell.

If you swapped items for the boss (which I do often because Jar of Souls is useless against Providence), what use item did you have for the majority of your run?

 

Because getting stunned (and then proceed to eat explosion + sword attacks) is probably the only way anyone can really die against Providence, and Jetpack + Hoof help significantly in terms of reducing the chance of that happening, by giving you more air time and distance whilst you make your mad leaps.

I certainly don't believe that Sniper is without issues, every class has issues of some sort, but the idea is that Sniper's issues are not as crippling as what people make them out to be.

Sure, Crowbars deserve far more credits for the successful run, but I honestly don't see Loppers being particularly potent on Sniper.

I did mention this, it was a Shield Generator which I was lucky to acquire on Valley, it was at that point that I realized I should probably stack Drones as they tend to have good synergy, Shield Generator offers complete protection to the drones as well.

I can't say I'm the biggest fan of Jar of Souls for Sniper, it feels like a lazy cop-out when you could be doing so much more with Unstable Watch/Crude Drawn Buddy, which are far more hands-on and reliable.

 

I find that it's often his Worms are probably deadlier than Providence himself. For a final boss he's actually not very hard.

But those worms, man... especially that red one. Killed me once or twice for sure.

It depends on what issues are being discussed.

I personally believe that the Sniper only really has one crippling issue, and that's his inability to fight effectively in a "Jar of Ants" situation without assistance. Either from drones, co-op allies, or even just having the proper use item.

Unlike most people, I don't actually have much of a problem with his AOE. I think it could use some buffing but it's enough to at least beat the game.

I don't suppose they're more potent on sniper than anyone else, really, but I find them helpful for Steady Aim (since the damage drops off considerably for every enemy it goes through). Basically by having Crowbars and Old Loppers combined, you guarantee that if you don't kill on the first shot, you at least kill on the second.

Huh, I don't think I unlocked that item yet but it sounds like it would be incredibly helpful in a Jar of Ants. Guaranteed immunity while you line up one or two Steady Aims, depending on how long the shield lasts...

I love the Jar of Souls specifically because it is such an incredibly good answer for a Jar of Ants.

 

Can someone please explain to me how the Bandit is in any way shape or form better than the Sniper? Preferably from someone who can actually beat Monsoon. I don't feel the need to argue with someone who spends all his time typing and not enough time playing to actually get good enough to understand these flaws.

 

he's not, bandit is one of the worst classes

 

At least Hand-D is easily capable of managing a crowd once he has popped Overclock, Bandit has absolutely no means of truly controlling a group, and delivering a short AOE stun in exchange for the ability to escape and distance yourself from your pursuers is completely counterproductive.

I still don't see how Bandit can ever be considered a better kiter (or better ANYTHING) than Sniper in any respect. Dynamite does piss poor damage, 3 sec windwalk with 13 secs cooldown really doesn't buy you all that much Blast spam time, Lights Out is just completely unreliable past the first stage unless you have some Crowbars, even then it's still extremely finnicky. I'd actually go as far as to say that Bandit is even more item-reliant than both Commando and Merc.

I don't claim to be particularly skillful with Bandit, but I was stuck playing him for the longest time early in my RoR career in both solo and multiplayer games, and a few quick Monsoon solo runs with him reminded me just how horribly painful it is for Bandit to kite and deal with a crowd.

 

Bandit needs to really focus on getting early game AoE items to compliment his insane basic attack (and lights out). Gasoline and Will-o-wisp are super helpful items on him I find, and to a lesser extent Sticky Bombs (when they detonate they are AoE).

Luckily he has a really awesome defensive skill and his grenade can do some work.


On the topic of enforcer, although the recent buff allowing him to move while shielding was a massive boon (he can now block rockets!), I still feel like he is still pretty low tier as far as solo is concerned. In multiplayer I feel like Enforcer is super goddamn good when you co-operate with the team, his ability to constantly knockback, tank, and stun makes him a nice thick iron wall that your teammates can shoot from behind. (coincidentally this makes him a super good partner for sniper)

 

top tier still remains miner, huntress, and acrid

everyone else is far below

 

If we are factoring player skill into the matter I would agree with this.

Miner doesn't become an unstoppable god of destruction unless you are good with him, and since this list is based off game mechanics alone and not factoring in skill, unfortunately he does belong where he is on the list.

I love me some Miner too, he is probably my most played class (can't check atm).

 

Sorry for taking so long to reply, saw how much work I would have to do and got lazy. Also wanted to play the sniper a bit more to solidify my opinion.

But first of all let me say congrats on the successful Sniper Monsoon run, I hate to sound condescending though and have to point out that you have 4 flamethrower drones, which are superfreakinggoddamninsane good on the Sniper. I wish my drone luck was that good when I play Sniper .

Unless you get good luck with items that give AoE (or get really good drones... ) you will run into problems as time goes on. In Monsoon especially, the spawn rate starts to ramp up pretty hard to the point where a Sniper pretty much needs at least some of these items (or drones) to be successful. Funnily enough, I think if Laser drones were cheaper it would be a pretty massive buff to the sniper, since he usually can't hang around long enough to farm up enough money to buy them.

I guess I should have clarified a bit, the mobs that I mentioned that couldn't really be cheesed (and also mentioned are pretty easy anyways) are those bosses that chase you, like the magma worm and the wandering vagrant.

It's sadly true. The ability to kite is a twofold ability, first you need to be able to effectively evade the enemy, next you need to be able to deal damage while on the move. The reason that even Bandit is a better kiter is because he can keep up a good steady stream of DPS, throw a grenade when they get close for good AoE damage and then smokescreen out. In other words the Bandit can deal good damage and at any time can GTFO if something unforeseen happens and he needs to relocate ASAP, meanwhile in order to get a decent bit of killing power the Sniper needs a large amount of distance between him and the mob pack, and he can't maintain his DPS and evade (because he needs to stand still to charge his only AoE). Sniper's terrible kiting ability gets more and more apparent the more dire the situation, and eventually can reach the point where he can no longer "kite" and instead has to soak hits to deal damage (DJFlare84's beloved Jar-of-Ants scenario is a good example, commando can jump in-and-out popping off FMJ/Grenade, Sniper has to charge his STEADY AIM in the middle of the mob pack and die).

Yeah it's probably true that Commando and Bandit stand still just as much, but the thing is, both of them can easily run away or dodge through the enemy without compromising their damage. Meanwhile Sniper has to release his Steady Aim to dodge, and then has to wait the 5 second cooldown. It gets even worse on the later stages where the enemy hp scales much higher, the sniper has to charge his steady aim much longer to achieve the same results.

No class other then Sniper requires Hoofs or Jetpacks for anything, sure they are nice, but even then they are usually not that important. Sniper actually requires Mobility to function as a class, others can make do even with normal speed. As for not needing on-kill trigger items, true you don't NEED them, but unless you get some other way of augmenting your AoE (such as 4 flamethrower drones, yes I'm still upset about that) on the later levels you WILL fail. When there are 40-60+ enemies remaining after the teleporter timer ends, the incredibly shitty AoE STEADY AIM does is just not enough to clear.

As stated above, how in the hell is he a "country mile ahead of the rest" when it comes to kiting? His only good damage skill of any merit requires him to stand still for increasing amounts of time as the mobs get stronger! He can kite yes, but the only reason he isn't the worst in the game at it is because of MILITARY TRAINING, hell at times I think Miner can kite better then the Sniper. If reloading didn't require the Sniper to stop moving I would give him credit as a decent single target kiter (yes I know about jump reloading, but it still stops you for a few dozen frames, which is enough to be a problem unless you have hoofs, which draws back into the item dependence point).

I actually find Commando and Sniper very comparable. Commando is like a reverse sniper, pretty good AoE and terrible single target. The thing that make Commando a much better class then Sniper is that AoE is more valuable then single target 90% of the time, and that he has more maneuverability thanks to not having to stand in one place to charge shots. Both classes are equally item dependent (but on different items).

In conclusion, please give me your luck. I love flamethrower drones, but I have never seen more then 2 spawn on a single magma level in all my many many runs and loops through RoR (hell, 90% of the time i'm on Magma, I find no flamethrowers and laser instead).

 

I was rather lucky with the drones, despite wasting tons of time on Valley and Magma, they both produced quite a lot of drones for me to synergize with Shield Generator, with four more Attack Drone on final stage, kiting became a joke.

I've done some recent solo Bandit runs just for comparison sake and I have to say, the grenade is absolutely pitiful from 3rd stage onwards, the only time I see it visibly doing anything is when I try pull risky stuff like Smokescreen stun into a crowd, grenade and hope the AoE + items make something magical happen... and that kinda stop happening from 3rd stage onwards as mentioned. Sure, Smokescreen -> Shoot -> Grenade -> Run -> repeat is generally quite safe, but you will be looking at kiting for a veeeerrry long time.

Thing with Sniper is that, aside from some emergencies, every Military Training roll should be accompanied by a Steady Aim, which will yield 50%-80% charge depending on if you are willing to tank a hit or two. The result? Something guarantees to die. Only things that comfortably tank Steady Aims would be Temple Guards and Elite Elder Lemurians, most Elites at higher difficulty may also take two Steady Aims to kill, generally won't be the case if you use your Crit drone wisely. On an average day? Two to three normal mobs explode. On a bad day? An elite sulk up most of it but would die from the next shot with whatever poor sods that are marching behind him. On a good day? Big explosion and everything dies (between items and whatnot). Basically, when I roll, I get results, I see visible progress as things lose a big chunk of their life. With a subpar item-set Commando or Bandit? I see no real progress. Command you can at least see the monsters' HP slowly grinding down. With Bandit? I just stop seeing progress at all few stages in unless you are really beefed up with some nice Boxing Gloves and whatever else AoE and on-hit trigger items.

I don't see how this is any different between these classes. When you dodge out of a crowd to try obtain some distance, they are all essentially compromising their damage, if you want to put it that way. They all can stutterstep (ie. pause, turn around, shoot, continue running, repeat), but for that Sniper has an edge for having the best damage for a single shot primary attack.

Evidently from my run they weren't much of a necessity, more like extremely desirable luxury, so never mind that. Also, I need to point out that Sniper has one of the better movement speed of all available classes. I don't have the actual stats but it is purely based on observation in multiplayer games.

Anyways, time to do a drone-less run... or at least, one without an army of attack/laser/flame drones.

EDITED :
And here is the result of the immediate followup run...

Could've finished 10 mins quicker if I didn't bother to try use up the two free keycards... which yielded nothing of value and got me chased by 3-4 Blighted Clay Men that neeeeearly killed me. Unquestionably better item set than previous run with Infusion and Jetpack straight off the bat, but I've started off with incredible items with both Bandit and Enforcer too on Monsoon, without coming anywhere near finishing the game, or even come remotely close to have as smooth a run as this.