State of the game

I was originally responding to another post in another thread, but then this started turning into a longer post than I intended, so I decided to make it its' own. For the record, Steam is telling me I've spent 40 hours in this game since it launched. It seems like a lot more than that...

This will be long, too, so spare yourself if you're not interested.

http://community.playstarbound.com/...on-mechanic-vs-the-new-proposed-system.40485/

I think there's a problem with the current system, and when I read that initial news post saying it was changing, I was wondering if it was anything like I thought it should be. I haven't looked at anything else about it yet, though.

With the current system, there's very little reason to "level-through" planets. There's nothing stopping me from going to a level 10 planet just after getting off level 1 hoping to find some sort of dungeon or even just wander the surface and eventually finding a weapon for that level, which pretty much lets me breeze through all of that tiered content. IF the armor situation was currently working 100%, it wouldn't be long until you steamrolled everything on a lesser planet for the resources you need to catch up. Even at 40, I can only take 2-3 hits (and those are day creatures), even with what I think is the best armor in the game for me... basically, that one-hit-kill disadvantage isn't really an unnatural disadvantage, it's just kind of the way the game is. There's no point in staying on, say, a level 2 planet with gold armor, so you're always going to want to be putting yourself in a position where you can't take very many hits to begin with.

With the above in mind, the game has a problem with the items you get, especially weapons. If I kill some rare creature and get a cool purple weapon on a level 11 planet, that weapon is easily replaced by, probably, a weapon on a level 14 or 15 planet. Weapons become garbage so quickly that you don't have an attachment to them like I had an attachment to my weapons in Terraria... that's not good in this type of game, I think. I should care about what I find and know that the item will serve me well for a good long while, and in the end, can probably be used to create an even better weapon. All this is really defining who your character was and wanted to do (Terraria)... in Starbound, everything is just random, and your character stays pretty uninteresting because you don't really have the choice to do what you want to do. To some extent, maybe, with weapons you can buy from stores and the vanity clothes, but you will replace all the items that matter on the top tier planet when you find a dungeon that drops random crap 2 or 3 levels higher, which is what you need to get a good start on the next tier (but even then, you'll probably find some random chest with some random weapon that will help you out on those planets anyway, so whatever - dodge creatures until you find something, no biggie).

On top of that, you have balance issues, which certainly comes in time and is not an instant thing... but if the above 2 things were to change, you wouldn't need balancing until it was all set in stone... so this is a long way off.

Some other issues I've noticed;

Homes on planets... you don't really have a reason to do it, at least until you reach the top tier and find a good level 40 planet that you like to set up camp. It makes sense, considering once you get to that level it's where you'll be forever, so no reason to pack up and move like I did twice in tier 1 (on the first planet I started on, and another higher level planet that I thought would be a good launching point... until I figured out I could put all my crap on my ship and save gas/time). This wasn't a problem in Terraria since it was a single planet you had to work with, and probably wasn't much of an afterthought in Starbound... until you get in a realize that you have no reason to build anything in this game, despite the fact that there's so much of that content there to work with.

But, while on the subject of content... I see a lot of the same things on planets now after having played so long. There is a lot of great stuff to be found, but it needs more. Half the fun of these games is building. Usually homes, but the stuff people build can be used in other ways to, not just for flavor in a survivalist game. What this game needs is some sort of map-making tool that the community can use to create content. We could then post on the forums, the community could vote on the stuff they like best, and then Chucklefish and crew could determine whether or not the content fits their "vision" and throw it in the game. Sure, we might come up with some of the same ideas (like castles or a certain dungeon setting), but that can be a good thing simply for variety. Professional looking work should certainly make it in to give everyone more stuff to do.

There is even more than this that I've come up with over time, but I think is a good starting point for what I think is wrong with the game. Even with all that said, this game is excellent. Such a great idea executed to near perfection. That concept is there, and it is truly fun and engaging for what it has to offer... but the system has some rather significant natural problems that I think need to be addressed in one way or another.

 

You know what? You are 100% right on this, and it would give the beta community give something to do that is lasting and directly beneficial to the game through all the wipes, etc. All that would be needed would be an in game box select and export / import tool, some cheat commands (like money and add all to 3d printer), and a website tool to upload, browse and vote.

Despite all the great work the team has done so far, they can only be expected to create so much static content. Crowdsourcing this would allow a huge amount of high quality content to be added quite quickly.

 

Did come up with something else to say;

I know the first thing people will want to say is "this isn't Terraria, stop comparing it to Terraria"... but I feel it's worth taking into consideration the things they did right and work well for this type of game instead of ignoring it and trying to come up with something you think is better or original. It's an honorable and bold undertaking, but if you've played any number of games in the last 20 years, you can probably name one or two that screwed it up terribly.

So... one of the main things I really liked about Terraria was the Diablo-esque item modifiers and the ability to have a merchant forge them for a chance at something better. Having a system like that here in Starbound would help with the problem of having to abandon a really cool weapon that you like that look of. Maybe have a pixel merchant some place that will let you take a weapon you found and pay to upgrade it, or at least have a chance at upgrading it. Everything could change on a forge reroll instead of the look; penetration, weapon speed, element based, and anything else that can be a cool addition to how weapons work in this game. That would give you a reason to hold on to something you found, and also give you something else to do with your pixels you'd farm and eventually run out of uses for when you're at level 40.

In addition to this, Chucklefish could have a "request content" thing they do. Like if someone has something they created and are happy with, but yet need a certain item that isn't in the game (and Chucklefish sees the potential of the created content), maybe they could toss together a sprite and release it to them for use.

Also, the Terraria guys had a competition of sorts where some community artists put together a bunch of sprites with different armors, weapons, monsters, etc, and the community voted on which artists' work they liked the best. All that stuff I think was put in the game.

Another way to expand the content of Starbound without having to do it all yourself.

Crafting. With the way the game is setup, I don't see much use in crafting weapons. Armor, sure, since that's really the only way you can get it, but weapons... that's just a waste of resources, since pretty much every dungeon type enemy drops a weapon, or it's not difficult enough to find a good dungeon that does. Even with that, and like I pointed out earlier, you could simply walk the surface of some random planet and eventually find a chest (which is not uncommon) and find a weapon to use. Crafting weapons should only be reserved for some truly epic weapon recipes that can be purchased or found (another reason to keep playing the game).

The recipes could be something like;

Super laser gun
- 20 steel bars
- handgun of any type/level (which will create a corresponding leveled weapon)
- some energy-source placeable device found in some spaceship dungeon or lab or whatever

or maybe something similar for a unique laser sword.

How about a minigun?

- 40 durasteel bars
- 1 assault rifle
- 1 machine pistol (takes the average of both levels)
- 6 iron pipes
- a partridge in a pear tree

Laser sniper rifle

- 2 sniper rifles
- 2 energy sources
- 1 bear in a tutu

You get the idea, I guess. Basically, the possibilities are endless. You can have all those neat looking random weapons that drop, but being able to create something truly yours would be so much more rewarding. These could use the same skin of the weapon you used, modified slightly or something, or be a unique for simplicity.

Going back to the random chests that appear in worlds... it would be better if I think if anything found in surface chests be anything but weapons, those being found only in chests beneath the surface. Also, surface biome chests that drop schematics should really just be rare and unattainable "cool" things to build for that biome. Basic biome items like beds, chairs, torches, etc, should automatically be rewarded to you upon picking up a single item that is used in the creation of at least 1 of those biome items... so basically, everything rewarded (except the aforementioned rare items) to you as soon as you pick up a mushroom or bone.

I think it also goes without saying that the crafting window needs to be more accomodating. Easier to sort, easier to see what the item is, what it takes, etc.

To also give more incentive to create homes (not that people really need it, but it's a reason to get them off the ship), have a certain buff be given to the character whenever they spend, say, 5 minutes in an atmosphere that is a certain size and has certain items within distance. Basically, this should be something simple like "you take less damage from higher level creatures", letting you explore farther, harder and faster than normal, but not in such a way that it breaks the game, since higher level stuff in a tier and the armor you can create is always just a bit shy of the top tier, and therefore you will always take more damage there even with appropriate leveled gear that's available to you.

It needs to be careful how it's done though, otherwise you might just get people setting up "rest rooms" while they're out exploring by bringing a whole house with them and setting up somewhere safe.

On the subject of making the game more "builder-friendly", exploring planets is nice and such a neat idea - however, and like I said before, there's no reason to build anything, let alone a house on a planet. After a certain point (pretty much when I found I could put a lot of stuff on my ship, and also that I'd be leaving sectors so quickly), I spent most of my time beaming to planets, finding the resources I needed at that moment, explored the surface enough to see if anything interesting was visible, and then leaving after pillaging it or not finding anything.

Honestly, I kind of think there should be more subsurface content than surface content. Interesting and abundant things to do underground would give people more of a reason to stay on a planet longer to want to build something they can use to store items, or craft, etc...

Also, the ore situation needs to be fixed and balanced. This will probably mean creating a lot more different ores to use, because there should be a reason to want to go to at least half the planets, 1-10, in a tier instead of immediately to the last one, and then randomly for what you need or feel (and this will also fit in with a redesign of how the game plays).

It might be a better idea to just remove penetration levels altogether though, make all planets in a system unclassified, and make planets less about being a certain level (level 5 or 7) and more random, where the surface contains lower level creatures, and the deeper you go contains higher level ones. The entire thing could be completely random, where you don't know what you'll run in to on a planet and that adds a bit of mystery. The whole armor and weapon system would certainly have to be adjusted slightly too, because someone should be able to survive more than one or two hits on these planets so they can determine whether or not the difficulty is right for them or if it would be better to try their luck on a different planet. After all, planets could and should contain the unknown. I shouldn't be able to look at my map and determine what a planet has to offer me - I should want to go down there and explore it for myself.

If the above were to happen, and then going back to ores, it might be a good idea to also randomize what ores each planet has. Maybe one planet has a lot of gold, or copper, or iron or coal, or maybe it has none of those... I should be able to bring up some sort of planet scanning mechanism that will tell me the amount (high, moderate or low) of resources for a particular metal are. This might take away a little bit from exploring the mystery, but I wouldn't want to waste my time looking for something that may not be on the planet. The amount given to me should be broad. If I happen to need a lot of gold right at that very moment, it might be better to wait for a planet that shows a high content of gold... or maybe not. Perhaps there could be other incentives to go down and explore a planet that has only a low amount of gold, and yet I need it.

 

Dude, quoting yourself and 6 posts in a row in less than an hour. Use the forum correctly please. There is an edit button and no reason to keep bumping your thread to the top every couple minutes.

 

Absolutely no one on the internet would read a post that long. So, no thanks, I'll keep my ideas split up when appropriate.

 

I'm sorry but I know plenty of people that would. Please do not post so many times, its against forum rules and generally not allowed on most forums.

 

http://community.playstarbound.com/index.php?threads/state-of-the-game-and-why-its-broken.40396/

One of your ideas reminds me of his, and they both sounds fairly good with modding/augmentation.

The whole, completely Randomized with no indication other than the Alpha sector, would be amazing. It would prevent us from steamrolling through because we wouldn't know where the high tier planets are and it would force us to analyze planets like how they wanted us to in the beginning.

 

Exactly. The whole tier system is kind of the problem to begin with. It still works in a pinch, but... yes, exploring planets for the sake of exploring because you don't know what's on them is what the game should be about. It's pretty much the entire premise of the game.

The "post your ship" thread gave me an idea. Since I was talking about giving people a reason to build on planets (or build at all), a cool addition to the game I think would be to have some sort of ship upgrade merchant, or system, where you could spend pixels or refine a certain amount of resources (lets say a lot of resources, like 200 iron and copper bars or something, in addition to other ingredients) to expand your ship and add different compartments to it. Since people seem to treat their ship as their home, even though it's lacking in space, this could add another element of something to look forward to; a big ship with 20 rooms or what have you. It would also be neat if there were different styles, sizes and such so you can customize it to your liking... or maybe even buy a new ship once you get high enough in level, and have those modular, and instead just keep your starter ship basic and give incentive to purchase a new one.

The journey from lowly stone pickaxe refugee to bad ass space pirate should be noticeable. "End game" should be more about having cool armor and weapons, it should be about having all kinds of awesome space tech. I have a ship, but I should be able to buy a different, bigger one, with more gadgets and lights and fenders and windows and rooms, etc etc etc.

 

its a forum for a reason man, there looking for this type of thing let her get what she has to say out shes one of the few who are actualy doing it instead of complaining, weather shes/he are doing it correctly. just have her to next time delete her last post or something.

 

I'm not fully understanding what you're saying, but if anyone double posts, that's against the rules and makes the forum look less appealing. Just use the edit button if you need to, no need to keep posting. Forums have rules, if you don't follow them, you get punished. Simple as that.

 

please stop discussing whatever it is I'm doing wrong in my thread. If a moderator has a problem with it, they'll do something about it. Please keep my thread on topic.


I was looking at some other threads about techs... I think this system could probably use some work, too. Seems people want to be able to use more than one, and I agree. I would suggest having up to 5 equipped, and up to 3 actively selected that you can use. Basically, keep the movement items you like most, and situation specific ones on hand in case you need them.

It could work like the 5 icons appear below 6-10 on your action bar, and are accessed by alt+1-5. Since we would be able to use 3 at a time, maybe you could have an option to "lock in" two of them as two you know you would never want to go without, and then have the third one (this could be color coded) as the one that can be actively switched out on the fly with the number keys.

Just a thought.