Starbound's guns.

Hrm, I really like the random generation I really do. But the low level guns seem so weaksauce for some reason.
Yes I know they are low leveled, but I'm thinking that's because Chucklefish probably though that spamming decent dps is OP and would make the game too easy early on.

I think this roots back to the fact that we use Energy rather than actual ammunition.

I think:
1. Bring back ammunition in the game. This will be coupled with the guns stats itself, so that should balance it out. Also, have different ammunition types, so that we aren't too free and we can have a sense of urgency when we run out of say RPG ammo. However I'm not exactly saying that universal ammunition is bad, I guess guns can consume different amounts of UA.

2. Keep the current system. I'm just being worried for nothing, because the guns are low leveled. However bear in mind this: so are the melee weapons. If the melee weapons can take down an enemy in two swipes, then why can't the guns. Which makes it worse is that they are fully automatic, and makes the game feel bullet spongy.

3. OTHER: Please comment below. What I can say for this is a possible mixture of both systems. Use your Energy when using energy weapons and use ammunition if it's ballistics.

 

For those who want to see some stuff:

 

Although i'm not going to worry about it too much, this is probably what i'd prefer.

Generally, I think i'd prefer it if things were less "spammy" overall. I guess you could say i'd prefer it shooting the guns (or swinging weapons, for that matter) was more "precise" and less about flailing around and hoping you can hit stuff (and not accidentally jump into a pit of death) at the same time. But i'm not sure how much precision you can put into a game with side scrollery and platformery elements without it being annoying.

Edit: The above option could be a good balancer though. "Weapon Group A" that has lot of usage (since they use your energy pool), but are weaker. And then "Weapon Group B" that use ammo (so supplies are limited), but are more powerful. I say A and B, because you don't need to necessarily split them into "energy" and "ballistics", so you could have a powerful laser that uses ammo or a weak, spammy automatic pistol that uses the energy pool (ie. more variety).

 

I don't have any problem with the current system. It reminds me of Mass Effect 1. Maybe add some Heavy Guns with limited ammo, but otherwise energy can stay IMO.

 

I'm sorry, but I ask if you could kindly put your sprites in spoilers.
Seriously though, you as the first poster didn't even give your thoughts on the fact...lol.

 

I want some abnormal ammo for special types of guns, like, you know, some sort of superweapon-grade rocket launchers, but apart from that I want energy for convenient firearms.

 

You bring up a pretty good point here.
I can't remember exactly how underpowered the starting guns were, but I do remember a lot of shots being involved in taking down an enemy. I can see how it would take less hits from a melee weapon to kill than from a gun (Certainly never in real life! -but in video game terms). With melee weapons, since you have to get up close and personal with the monster, there's a bit of danger and fun in the dance of dodging them. Swipe, dodge, swipe, kill. It brings a bit of an interactive element to the gameplay, something other than just double clicking.
But with ranged weapons, if they also killed in two shots, all I'd be doing was clicking down and holding in that direction. The fact that they're quick and automatic means that I probably wouldn't even have to change the angle of my fire before the monster died because it wasn't fast enough to move out of the way. The interactive part of ranged weapons is aiming. If guns also killed with only two shots, you'd be taking away the interactive part. Enemies would die at the edge of your screen without ever causing any danger.
It just boils down to balancing. So that a person using range feels the same amount of thrill as a person using melee, they probably increased how long a ranged fight would last by making the projectile cause less damage (but it also causes faster damage).

That being said. The balance should be fairly even.
This shouldn't happen:
2 melee swipes = 1 monster death = 10 ranged bullets
But this probably should:
2 melee swipes = 1 monster death =3-5 ranged bullets

 

I'd like some guns that use bullets. Maybe it could be added after release, but energy only seems a little boring to me.

 

I love ammo, but they are going with energy and I can live with that.

 

Ah yeah I agree, I didn't really mean that guns should do equal amounts of damage as the melee, that'd be absurd.
But as I watched the video even more, someone spawned a shotgun, and of course it does more damage if more of the buckshots hit the target. And it did DECENT damage!
So maybe it was because they were assault rifles, which were level 1.
Assaultrifle= less damage, more shots
combined with
Lowlevel= low damage.
So it must be just coincidental.

HOWEVER. Just sticking this in, as for the monsters, it seems that they all sport the same amount of HP.
So those toucan things and the tanky quadrupedal things both have 60 HP, dies in two hits due to the swords 30 dmg.

But yeah, that can be easily tweaked.

 

Without mods, certain adventure maps will be a bit tough to create (due to infinite ammo). Limiting a player's means of power can really help create tension in certain scenarios.

 

I think that a mixture of both would work well enough. although i think ammo should be handled like in earth defense force where you had infinite ammo(except for certain weapons) but a limited clip so you had to reload when you went through your clip. heck you could apply a overheat system to energy weapons so when you fire for a long period of time you have to wait until the heat disperses to fire it again and such. obviously this is just scratching the surface but hey there are many people who can take this idea a step further.

 

Turn off energy regeneration for that adventure - you get your limited ammo.

 

I like the current system, it makes PVP and PVE a good system, you can shoot from afar but you deal less, or get up close with a melee but be in range of an counter attack. If gun's were just as powerful as swords even with ammo PVP would be dominated with people with gun's, as for PvE it would make killing to easy and take the reward out of doing it.
Not to mention for those of us that like to fight from afar finding ammo add's a rather big disadvantaged where everything is randomized, we would be at a disadvantage when our ammo run's out and are cr*p with a sword.
The current system is at a balance, we just have to wait and see what tire 2 gun's are like and so on to see if the balance carry's on, if not then I am sure that is something they will tweak.

Besides it looks awesome when 3-4 people with gun's are shooting in the air at something, reminds me of thous moment in war films where the plane is getting shot at by everyone on the earth.

 

Then wouldn't that be like a Universal Ammo thing?
EDIT: Also, always remember that energy is not dedicated for the usage of ammo. You may also need it to power hoverbikes and doing dashes, etc.

 

I think it falls in to the Assault Rifle, more shots less damage book. There are so many different gun types with different firing styles and even unique action guns.

Armours also fill the gap in stats too remember, light armour has less cost on energy but lacks defence while more melee styled armours have higher defence at a higher cost to energy (and speed? wasn't sure on that one)

I have seen swords that do nothing, like Tiys starter broom stick sword that took much more to down low lvl enemies. I think we usually see melee weapons above low lvl while guns seem less common in streams.

(Tiy showed off a bunch of guns one night at the end of a stream and there were some really cool guns that had mods that made them behave different to their standard cousins with surprising results)

 

I am sure there will be a mod for that.

There will be a mod for everything.

 

Lemme adjust that a bit.


Only if someone codes a mod. Those things don't magically appear out of the community you know ^^.

 

Personally I like it when there is ammo in games, in fact I can't remember the last game I've ever played that had guns that didn't have ammo really. Actually no, Mechwarrior has ammoless weapons but those are energy by nature and not kinetic impact and even then I vastly prefer alternatives. Still the fact that ammo takes inventory space is a moot point, anyone who has gone hunting knows that ammo isn't magically summoned from the void into the chamber.
But in the interest of providing possible options that may or may not be better here are some ideas I've tossed around in my head before:

1. Alt-fire Toggle Mechanic - You can use either ammo or energy depending on a toggle setting on the gun, perhaps bound to a free hotkey though this might be less desirable considering the upcoming console versions where buttons are limited. Ammo State - When configured to use ammo it has a higher rate of fire and higher damage at the cost of ammo. You could also then have a chance to inflict bleeding on hit or something. Energy State - When configured to use energy the gun can be fired for free at the cost of reduced RoF and damage.
2. Energy Conversion Tech - We have tech slots yeah? Why not have one that modifies the weapon to consume energy while producing an energy based blast rather than a kinetic one? To add to it you could also have something like Focusing Diodes which would increase energy damage dealt. Unless these tech are installed you need ammo(s) to shoot.
3. Some just use ammo, some don't - There is an infinite universe out there, seems incredibly narrow-minded to assume everything works on the same principals. (edited in because I am silly and completely forgot to add it)

 

Well, from what I've seen on the i49 sohowcase, it seemed that meelee weapons are far more powerful than the ranged weapons. I think the chuckling fish wanted to make the game more balanced; the lesser range you have, the more powerful it becomes. I agree that it makes the gun seemed like pea-shooters, but I suppose it was for balance reasons.

So I suppose I chose option 2. It's not realistic, but I suppose that's balanced.