Starbound Isn't Playing In The Sandbox!

7Vec7Zus,

I think you did hit on a valid alternate mechanic, at least in its basics. If missions and worlds are somehow scaled and teired, and hazards noted and solutions proposed, one could navigate them at ones leisure. It might be complicated - too complicated - but I think you've got a term of an idea here.

I think really any concerns over the pixel gate are, again, it abstracts gameplay back to a financial transaction in the game, which just seems simple. But hey, if we propose enough suggestions, they might get new ideas . . .

 

Having multiple parallel gates for each tier is exactly the first thought I got after seeing the latest plan.
Still, I would like to see the devs expand on the tier-introduced hazard system (like the thread I posted on a similar topic as this). If each tier has multiple possible combinations of hazards, those themselves could act as the multiple gates.

 

i did not insult you. i stated my opinion which i now know to be fact. you do not understand the difference between hard and soft barriers. stating that you are ignorant of certain information is hardly an insult.

no, the main quest is not really a hard barrier to content. a hard barrier is an impenetrable wall. examples: i cannot enter this zone yet because the portal to it will not activate unless i am level 25. or i cant go over that hilltop because there is an invisible wall. or i have to kill the UFO boss to make use of any material higher than iron.

examples of soft boundaries: i CAN go to this area, but the monsters will kill me very quickly. i can go see what's over that hill, but it'll be hard without the boots that let you walk on top of quicksand without sinking. i can make use of all the basic materials, but the really good ones are deep underground where it takes forever to mine.

also, in morrowind, there is no information, lore, or item available in the mainquest that you cannot get by way of another method.

 

"Hard" and "Soft" boundaries are very subjective. Can you really go to Area X, even if you die in a single hit? Is that really different from not being allowed into Area X without Gear Y? From a player perspective, what is the difference? Both methods say "Don't go here."

If the options are "Sector B cannot be traveled to until UFO boss goes down like a cheerleader", is that really so much worse than "You can build Silver Armor anytime, but it's only found at the bottom of the molten core of a T1 planet, and only 10 per planet" ? Adding in ridiculous levels of tedium instead of a hard gate is effectively the same thing. The only difference is on paper.

Also, opinions != facts, and calling others ignorant IS an insult. Please remember that, and please try to be more civil.

 

Yes.
If you can get to area X where you die in a single hit, there will be skilled players doing gear-less runs, TASs, even exploits against it,etc.
From a player perspective, soft barriers are a challenge, hard barriers are not.

 

Hmm, I forgot about those. Thanks for reminding me! (original NES zelda with no sword = best gearless run!)

However, in terms of Starbound, are there any current hard barriers that would allow for additional challenge if converted to a soft barrier? No one forces you to make tier-equal armor in order to fight each boss, they only force you to fight the boss before moving on. If the boss didn't require fighting...how is this any more challenging than skipping the boss?

The only hard barriers I can see allowing for extra skill/effort to replace the time would be in Sector X, removing the Cerulium upgrade, etc. Then, you would be allowed to go to Threat Level 10 planets immediately and craft that gear, without making the previous sets...but, I already do that. I just have to go back and get 160 of each ore plus 80 coal (80 per upgrade, x2 upgrades), and then I'm up to Impervium...

 

In the new plan posted, each tier will introduce new hazards that can be overcome by boss loots. Being able to experience those hazards without forced immediate death would be converting hard barriers to soft, and we'll soon see gear-less hardcore survivalists in harsh places...
I still don't like the plan that environmental hazards have to be overcome only by boss loots, but being able to land on hazardous planets without the appropriate gear is a start, and the devs would be severely undermining the game's potential if they don't adopt this.

 

I quite take offense to that especially since I can 'prove' that there are far fewer barriers.

Not only this, but from a technical stand point there are only 3 barriers.

1. Wall of flesh. -Source : http://terraria.gamepedia.com/Wall_of_flesh (You can literally, dig straight down, kill a demon with a guide voodoo doll and summon the wall of flesh. The only gate is your skill and gear)
2. A single hard mode boss which one will spawn each night. -Source : http://terraria.gamepedia.com/Plantera (You are only required to kill a single boss and one of the bosses, randomly picked, will spawn each night and attack you until you kill them at least once. Not only this, but the mobs have increased drop rate for boss spawn items until you kill one of each.)
3. Plantera for key. -Source : You need a key to enter the temple. Ironically, this is the final part of the game and it's not really a gate for anything but the temple. You can access everything else after killing the wall of flesh.

TECHNICALLY when it comes to the world content (not bosses/items/gear) Terraria only has 1 gate and it's the Wall of flesh. You are not required to do anything else to access content except the two above things and they are only 'pieces' of content and they are entwined as all of them are 'boss' material. Heck a lot of 'aesthetics' are available immediately. (Skeletron is only a gate to the dungeon and in all technicality you can still access the dungeon, but you die if a guardian touches you.)

So there. Be proven wrong by facts and don't be so hasty in calling someone you know nothing about an idiot.

 

i did not call you ignorant. i said you were ignorant of facts. there is a very big difference. when not used to generally describe a person, ignorant means "lack of knowledge". it may not be a usage of the word you are familiar with, but it is a proper, non-pejorative use of the word, and not an insult.

the difference between hard and soft boundaries is freedom. there is no way around a hard barrier. a soft barrier does indeed block you, but you can get around it if you try. the difference is not just on paper. the difference in the silver example provided is that i am not forced to fight a boss if i do not want to. i can deal with the tedium is i so decide to.. that's freedom.

 

Er...they said boss LOOT is the survival system? If so, I completely missed that. I thought defeating the boss unlocked the ability to make the survival system (with no explanation on exact mechanics).

If they changed anything unlocked from bosses to instead be unlocked by opening a Gate... I think this could change from a hard barrier into a soft barrier, right?

Pro tip: "Ignorant" is a very loaded word in today's world. Simply because you use a specific definition which is different from society's understanding of the definition does not mean it's less insulting, it means you don't INTEND to be insulting. At the same time, if you know that your definition differs from society's definition, and that society's definition is "insulting", AND you still choose to use it, then that's even worse. You're not only stubborn beyond all reasonable doubt, but you're intentionally using charged language to insult people, and then claiming that you didn't insult them.

As far as the freedom stuff, you're correct. But from a game design perspective, more freedom is not always better. Sometimes, gates are in place for a reason, and they provide more enjoyment to more people. If you, in particular, disagree with that, then you should probably find a mod. I suspect you are in the minority of people that strongly object to bosses, so strongly that you absolutely can't stand the thought of hard barriers.

I suspect that most people would say "What the heck!? Oh well, fine, I'll kick its ass and move on with life."

 

But would people really want to go with the tedium of mining limited amounts of ore near a planets core that take forever to mine?

 

Or perhaps unlocking recipes. I didn't mean to imply the devs actually say the techs are direct drops. We don't have enough details.
I think ideally the soft gate should simply be the effort in obtaining whatever techs you negate those hazards with.

You never know...

 

So there would actually be people that would love to dig way down to the surface of various planets just to take 30 seconds or so to mine a limited amount of ore, then have to go to next planet for more (bonus points if the object they need the silver for needs a whole lot of it)?

 

People are strange.

 

I agree. Though I just find the thought that people would take the hard route being even weirder just by that I thought most people here didn't really like doing extremely tedious amounts of grinding for things (and having to mind limited amounts of ores near the core of the planet would fit in with tedious grinding).

 

Well I guess well-designed soft gates won't be that extreme. It'll be more like "if you actually take that trouble to dig all the way down, you'll get enough silver".

 

just because you are ignorant of a word's usage does not mean that the usage you are not familiar with is incorrect. where i live, "ignorant" is often used in this non-pejorative way. your personal experiences do not hold true for "the rest of society".

i dont mind bosses, but i do object to many hard barriers in a game described as "a story in a sandbox".

 

If they love bosses so much why not follow Terraria path? Some bosses are optional and some, well, let them be gatekeepers for the the sake of a "story" which cannot be rewritten (but for some reason each time i remember original post about it, i feel that particular smell, the smell of BS). I can hardly believe each boss being critical for storytelling.

 

I know this isnt my thread but lets not draw the attention to the moderator of closing this down because of whose right and wrong. I want this thread to create some attention even if we all just combine our efforts and all make one suggestion and bring ppls votes above 4000 we could alter their course and bring a much better system into place. Thats if we all can just work together as a community.

 

Ok, gents. This thread should really be closed. It's gettin' hot in here.

Yes, even TRUE open world games have "hard" boundaries in some places. Skyrim, for example, you DO have to take down that first dragon and meet with the old guys on the mountaintop to unlock dragon shouts. Farcry 3, you have to play story-missions in order to gain new skills and unlock certain parts of the island. Saints Row IV only unlocks powers when you complete missions. Yes, even Terraria has some "hard" boundaries, like being unable to break hell-blocks or whatever, till you have a certain type of pickaxe. Hell, even Minecraft where there's not even like a... like any story really, so the entire THING is a sandbox, has *SOME* kinds of "hard" boundaries. Like not being able to break obsidian until you make a diamond pickaxe. But you never once feel LOCKED-IN, unable to experience the game without doing certain things. And you can complete them in any order.

But Starbound is different because these "hard boundaries" or "hard gates" are met very quickly and leave you with absolutely nothing to do until you pass them. Who the frick wants to just mine iron all day in Alpha Sector? There's nothing to do with it after a very short time. And the next sector, nobody just wants to sit and make steel bars for eternity - you ARE FORCED to move on and you ARE NEVER ENCOURAGED to come back. Starbound is different, and a lot of people are reacting to that.

But I GUARANTEE everyone who's UPSET with Starbound's current state is feeling one thing in common: THIS DOESN'T FEEL LIKE AN OPEN WORLD. Yes, it's very subjective, that term "feel", but on this side of the line - Starbound FEELS very closed and hard-boundaried, if that's even a word. Maybe they would even go so far as to say that Starbound should actually be named HARDBOUND. I don't know.

But the FEELING is off. The FEELING is very much more linear, locked-in. The FEELING is a different kind of game. And whether 1 or 50 people scream and say, "STARBOUND WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE OPEN WORLD" or any degrees of that, it doesn't change the fact that throngs of players are upset because THEY FELT/FEEL that Starbound was pitched as a game where you could do anything you wanted - instead of being locked-in to a certain path.

I really think there's something to the idea of instead of making each sector numerically progressive - why not make them all just OPEN and DIFFERENT?

And instead of just ramping up the damage enemies do and your weapons do in each sector - how about all sectors being similar in difficulty, but having a different theme? Maybe the weapons and armor in Alpha sector are best used to combat the mobs in Gamma Sector? And Gamma Sector crafts will give you bonuses in Beta Sector? Or maybe they don't relate at all, but if you want a flame-based weapon, you should go to Beta. And if you want armor that can make you fly, head to Delta? Not just make Alpha sector enemies do 10 dmg, and Beta sector enemies do 50. That's boring. Make them fundamentally DIFFERENT.

But the importance would be that all these sectors are open to you at all times.

Because everyone on this side of the line would agree that it just doesn't FEEL RIGHT, like this. And it's hard to argue with someone's feelings. It's just the way they feel!