Star-map tiers are...lame

Yes, I think Terraria hard-mode is a good comparison here. You defeat a new boss, and the difficulty increases but you get to keep everything you had before. No building a new base, no having to settle a new space. I will admit that it doesn't take too much time to build a little box of shelter with my wood planks and place down my crafting items each time I settle a new planet in Starbound, but it definitely feels lacking when you have to do that every single time and you can't become too attached because two hours later when you've explored the planet you have to pick up and leave again. Keeping your home planet and having reason enough to go back (have all tiers part of the same universe) is much more fun.

 

These threads need bumping.
Honestly I can't imagine how the devs didn't adopt this.

 

So many threads about the same thing.. sigh. So again i will copy/paste from another thread, keep that in mind:

The problem:

"May I add that I don't bother with exploring planets with the current tier-system? If all planets have the same tier/threat level, I just stick to one until I'm done (and save a lot of coal). Maybe they can re-implement the old system: Starting at threat lvl 1 planet, then you see that there is a lvl 7 next to your planet and think "Hell, I am gonna try this". Plus, you had more progress in one tier, since it got harder from 1 to 10. It really felt like you were making progress.

The other thing is about progress/blueprints. Stupidly mine ore underground until you have enough, then craft all of your armor/weapons, even more mining to be able to summon and kill the boss, done. Using the upgrade gives you all the new blueprints for the next tier armor/weapons, you do the same again. You don't have to search for new things, you just get them. That's so damn boring. I know this is beta, but this has to change. I am spending most of the time mining clonk/wiggles-style.

Possible solution - you may want to scroll down to the red marker:

I am glad I am not the only one who thinks we need the threat levels back. There is so much potential (exploration, biomes, etc.) in it, as you showed in your posts. But instead of completely repeating a certain biome-pattern of planets in each tier, I would love to see new biomes in each tier.

Like:

new planet type at tier 2 = desert planets
new planet rype at tier 3 = ice planets
new planet rype at tier 4 = (under-)water planets
new planet rype at tier 5 = radioactive planets
new planet rype at tier 6 = no atmosphere/moons (subsequently after underwater/radioactive planets since high pressure underwater and no pressure/atmosphere in space do have similarities in equipment requirements)
.
.
new planet rype at tier 10 = high gravitational, radioactive, low atmosphere, volcanic/tentacle planets experiencing their end of lifespan (meteor shower/impact, dying sun, alien invasion etc.)

Furthermore, there should be a reason why we would want to visit a certain biome.

Within the tiers, each threat level will hold certain advantages like ore distribution (more/better ore), rewards for completing dungeons (finding armor/weapon blueprints, upgrades for your weapons/armor and helpful/required techs for new planet types - I personally would LOVE to see this in game. Upgrading your stuff is just so much fun). Just an example: threat-level 1-3 contains basic armor/weapon blueprints (e.g. copper armor), 4-6 an upgrade (e.g. copper armor -> iron armor), 7-9 further upgrades, techs and finally tier 10 (only here you can confront boss)

This is only a very raw sketch for tier/threat-level-progress (thanks guys above).

Since many people seem to be unhappy with the current starmap, here's one suggestion:
Remove the sectors, all tiers should be merged into one starmap. You now can zoom out from 1. a planet to 2. the sun system to 3. the local neighbourhood to 3. the galaxy to 4. galaxy overview.
How to merge threat levels with one consitent universe - here comes the critical point:

Some people want to have a perturbed universe, meaning tier 10 planets next to tier 1 planets, completely, randomly mixed.
Pros:

• more sandbox-feeling
• explore every planet you want to and when you want to
• due to this perturbation/mixture you are forced to travel (if no adequate planet is near you)

Cons:

• you can't go to those high-lvl planets anyway because environment will kill you (at least it should be like that)
• searching for adequate planets would need a lot of time (possible solution: introduce suggestions from your board computer) since planets of very high threat levels can surround your current planet (e.g. starter planet surrounded by planets of threat lvl 100)
• you need more fuel because you are forced to find adequate planets which may be far away
• ruining the progress-curve by the dig-down-and-loot-everything-you-can-exploit or by finding a chest on the surface of a tier 5 planet which won't kill you instantly because there are still life-friendly planets even at high tiers

Some people want to have a certain linear, continuous progress/ordered universe, get from tier 1 (threat level 1-10) to tier 2 (threat level 11-20) and so on.
Pros:

• the feeling of making constant progress which
• can't be ruined that easily (e.g. by exploiting)
• you don't need as many fuel as in a perturbed universe since it is ordered (adequate planets are near you)

Cons:

• a more "ordered" universe, less sandbox-feeling. The galaxy may be built up like the Bohr model (or an onion with many layers) - the further you move away from your starter planet, the higher the threat levels.
• you can't go everywhere = restricted exploration

A solution for the dig-down-and-loot-everything-you-can-exploit: Make the dirt/ground/soil only mineable with proper equipment e.g. tier 4 planets require a gold(=tier 3) pickaxe to be able to mine anything.

Ps: Also needed and wanted by many, many players: planet scanners/probes.
Pps: If you have another suggestions/pros/cons please tell us!"

The original thread:
http://community.playstarbound.com/index.php?threads/new-planet-level-mechanic-discussion.51047/

 

I think the devs made the mistake in thinking that planets should replace biomes and difficulty. Planets should be for variety, but each planet should be self contained. The way it is right now, it feels like if Terraria made you go through a loading screen to reach a new biome.

For a game that touts procedural generation and tons of content, planets feel samey. They need to add a TON of procedural content to make this system work. A Desert planet shouldnt just be 1 desert biome. It should be made up of several biomes with a desert and dry theme. There should be several desert bosses, loot and content of ALL tiers. Each planet should have several biomes based on its overall theme, and then several varations of those biomes for planet generation.

The biggest problem is content. To me they have only enough content for 1-2 planets and its variations.

 

Honestly...wasn't it the inital Goal to make a single universe or am i missing something? The sector idea does really nothing good and cramping planets of the same Level in one spot doesn't help either.

They should just throw the dice and let a single universe populate by random. Levels and let us explore.

 

I joined to agree with the OP i had just finished destroying the UFO but then i was lost i had not seen that i had gotten the core for i had just had my home destroyed but thats another story. once i found out from out side sources, i crafted the new anvil and i thought i would get new gear from just the anvil then i see the star map is really the only new thing. i then was thinking new star map i had't even been to 3 planets. i craft it then use it and i got new recopies i then saw the robot crafting table and thought i needed a bigger house but then i remembered theirs the new sector/"universe" to go to and i was torn.

The whole reason for me as an explorer is to find a place to rebuild earth for it had been riped of its resources and invaded by aliens so i thought that the stating planet would be an awesome start of a new race being low lvl as in only a minimal amount of equipment is suitable.

i was unable navigate to the near by star systems for there was no zoom out to the map (That i could find any ways) only a find random that always sent me to systems that cost 200 which was all i had.

trying to start a race at a tier 10 planet is stupid in the most commonsense way as every 1 would die except you

love the make yore ship bigger/better ideas

"exploring > unlocking"
i agree

Treasure maps or quests for recipes would be cool instead of just receiving them at next tier because i had enough mats for the new armor because i was looking for coper for so long i found tons of iron and coal

 

Maybe someone already mentioned this, but here goes.

One rather major problem I see with unlocking the entire universe in the beginning is that some people might immediately fly to the highest threat planets. They'd dodge monsters and, with a bit of luck (and persistence), find an end-game weapon in some surface chest before proceeding to steamroll through most of the content. Sure, many monsters would still one-hit kill players since armour progression can't be skipped, but there would be close to no need to ever get a new weapon again.

 

That is why I proposed an alteration to the weapon system that would make a high level drop useless unless you are functioning at that level.

 

I can see your point in that maybe people would then cheat the system and do that tier before they've "earned" it. However, that's why it was suggested that you need some sort of item from the previous tier's boss that would allow you to survive on that planet, i.e., a respirator, but you wouldn't be able to survive on the planet without it. Or maybe take so much damage very quickly that there's no viable way to explore or get anything done without that item.

 

Well, that amounts to mostly the same as an 'unlocking' item, like the ones we currently have to use.

 

You know what? If someone can go from starting to rocking out on a top tier world? I say Awesome! well done! I'd also ask exactly what is gained by making that person 'earn' it? How does forcing that person to trudge through multiple tiers just to get to the top someday add to their enjoyment?

 

I'm not saying the method of unlocking new sectors should be any different from what it is now. My point is that in my honest opinion, it would be beneficial to have all the "sectors" condensed into one universe instead of 10 (or 11 with sector X), so people feel more attached to worlds they've been to before. As it is, you just make a temporary home, finish the sector, then move on. I'd like to make my home more permanent.

 

Terraria does progression fine..and its all on ONE world.

 

I totally agree with everything you just said there. I have no qualms with tiers perse, just the way they are implemented. Why does each sector have thousands of planets when you leave after practically the first you land on? What is the incentive to visit all of those other planets when you can go to beta and get cooler stuff? This trend seems to stagger once you get to the more difficult sectors and moving around "SOME" planets may be necessary but in the grand scheme of things it is really only necessary to go to 1 - 2 planets per sector from a progression stand point.

Exploration is all cool and well for the sake of exploration but isn't part of that exciting feeling you get from exploring is finding things awesome and unique? I know I won't be exploring alpha or beta any more because it doesn't offer me anything awesome and unique. It still didn't even after my first planet. I could go to beta, get better gear and cooler items (more up the tech tree) and then from there go to the next sector only to plateau and explore just for the sake of exploring... Now don't get me wrong, the excitement of exploring isn't just shiny weapons and rare ore but it is an important part. I could go to alpha and find some bad*** Avian tomb ... clear it entirely (and effortlessly) only to find some knick knacks and a really super cool looking sword that does 8 dps... Sure it may be cool but it's useless. Might have been cool before when I was in that tier but I can almost guarantee I wouldn't have found it. Why? Because I was too busy flying to beta after completing the linear tiering system.

Now of course, there will be lower end planets, mid and higher end planets but why limit the universe to "sectors" outlining difficulty when you can have one universe that spans all sorts of difficulties, biomes, environmental hazards, enemies etc. The planets can have brief descriptions to let you know what to expect (IE fresh off the ship starter going to a magma planet and getting gibbed instantly is not fun) so it is really up to you if you believe the risk is necessary or if you just want to hit a low tier planet and start a zoo. The "CHOICE" should be there not some linear tiering system that forces you into certain gear and weapons just to physically go to those higher end planets. Before you go and say "Hey dude, we don't want fresh off the ship players going to a tier level 10 planet and instantly gearing up!", I don't either. Trust me that is the last thing I am asking for, (maybe if you are ultra lucky you can find some sword or whatever that is above your current tier but whatever, luck is luck) the planets should be dangerous enough that the lowbies shouldn't be able to effectively navigate and survive the planet anyway. That is where balance comes into play - Which I won't touch on because this whole post is more of a ramble off the top of my head rather than a concise, thought out one.

Anyway, I would like to see some sort of intertwined universe where risk/reward comes into play and gives us more of a immersive feeling. It's a general thought but one I thought I would voice. Also, this all may seem jumbled and disorganized... that is because it is.

Thanks for reading - if you did at all.

EDIT: TRUST IN THE BIG APE

 

Sorry, but I don't understand your reasoning. Your argument could be used to discard any and all forms of progression entirely.

 

If progression exists to pace out new options, it has value.

but so far progression exists only to slow down access to new content. That has no fun, its like getting a race car and having a guy in the passenger seat whose job is to make sure you only take it to 60 after doing a thousand miles at 30.

So yeah the case has not been made for progression as it exists atm.

 

A lot of people have referenced Cube World as a comparison, so pardon me for doing so as well. In Cube World, there's nothing in the world stopping you from going to some difficult biome or trying to fight some strong enemy that you are quite aware is levels ahead of you. Is it going to kick your butt? It most likely will. However, if you are skilled and patient enough, you can bring it down. I feel like a similar philosophy should apply here. You're thrown into a wide array of planets. Some level 1, some level 2, all the way up to level 10. Most people will start at level 1 and work their way up the normal way. If you want to go ahead and start at say level 3, you have the ability to do so, but have almost no chance in getting anything of value before meeting your timely demise. If you can find something of value, yes you have practically made levels 1 and 2 a complete cakewalk and not worth going to. But it was your choice to do that in the first place. No one's forcing you to start at a higher level, and no one's forcing you to start at level 1. You can choose based on your preferred play style. Would seeing some guy start at a higher level and finishing the game faster than you bother you? It wouldn't bother me. I'd go at my own pace, and to each his own.

 

That's their hard earned reward. If that ruins the fun, that's their choice too.

I don't understand what "progression" means here.

 

I suppose I'm basing my fears of starting players looting high-level planets on the current state of the game, which is a mistake.

Hopefully, monsters will be smarter and/or deadlier in the future, making it close to impossible for someone many tiers behind to avoid creatures entirely and loot surface chests despite being way out of their league.

 

Like this idea for single player but there is one huge flaw to me and that is multiplayer due to competition at the start for resources. BUT I believe this could easily be solved by having every new character or new IP get spawned on a random starter planet. IMO this should be happening already anyways as spawn gets drained of resources and people are forced to resort to single player resource gathering. There are other solutions to that but I won't go into them here as it would only be derailing the thread from the original topic.