Some thoughts on early access, release dates, the big 1.0

I paid much more than the £9 it's available for now because I got one of the more expensive supporter tiers thinking that by now it would have been "finished". I absolutely do not mind at all that it isn't there yet as long as it's still being worked on. Chucklefish and Grinding Gear Games are two of the best game dev companies I've come across for making me feel like the game is more important than the money, so I don't mind supporting you and accepting delays if it means the game will be better. You're definitely at the opposite end of the spectrum to EAxis with Sims 4 calling what looks like an early access game the finished version so they can release a ton of expansion packs and get more money for features that should be in at launch.

 

@Tea Mate
So far I'm see this.
tiy: we could call it 1.0 if we wanted, but we aren't.
you: Stop calling it 1.0
tiy: ...

 

That is not what I wrote. I wrote that the notion of "we can call it 1.0 whenever we like" is silly and rather unfair.

 

1.0 isn't an arbitrary number, unless you make it one.
In the 'real' industry there are things like functional specification documents and costumer requirement specifications when companies order software systems - sure they get often modified during the development, althought in theorey they shouldn't be. Not just to mention that a lot goes wrong in every industry...
If Chucklefish would have sought/found a publisher they also would have defined some metrics as benchmarks. And as soon as you start selling things on promises, these promises become the new metrics.
That's honestly an easy concept. The whole concept of unfullfilled promises for products is so easy, that as far as i know most legal systems in the world use it in their judgements.

 

Yeah, and it was pretty clear Tiy thinks the same thing so ?????

 

I get your point, and from that last message I see you get my point too. I actually agree with you. I just felt like most people were focusing too much on the accuracy of the numbers that they totally forgot why the numbers exist in the first place. Now I know that you understand both the same way I do. My mistake for misinterpreting.

 

I just... Really... Do you want me to rewrite all the rest of my post?
Short version:
I'm in two minds about it, in the middle somewhere. They shouldn't say "We COULD call it finished if we wanted", as that is shrugging responsibility. Their early "A story within a sandbox!" Shout is not fulfilled, as key features are missing.

In general, this goes for both sides(and me as well):
If you want to have honey, accept that there are bees with stingers involved somewhere in the process.

Other than that I don't care if someone agrees or disagrees with me, who want will understand correctly, I added my two cents, and someone will surely go on pulling out statement after statement from my post out of context and so forth just to make themselves feel better. I don't really care, been over that a million times.

 

Except they aren't trying to shrug responsibility because right after saying that he says they won't. Because it wouldn't be right.

So again "??????"

 

I'll be short. We're talking about the same post, right?

 

Because Tiy's simply wrong.
1.0 is neither arbirtrary if you don't choose to make it arbitrary, nor is he right about who's the one to judge what 1.0 ist.
As soon as you take money from people promising them to deliver them something it's no longer your call alone what 1.0 or finished means.

 

Yes. The post in which he says they could say it was released but they aren't going to do that.

Yes.

?????

 

I've been watching the fuss around the game lately. The issue with the people around Starbound is that they seem to be really on edge and easily angered. I mean really. Remember the horse thing? So much hate, outrage, boycotts even because of one joke. I bring this up because they would not make this into a longer joke if the community did not react so strongly and so ridiculously.

But I digress. All I can see now is the same arguments over and over again. Each point - features, "release date" ect. was discussed and explained. Yet people still bring that up as an argument instead of just moving on they cling to that as if they have nothing better to do in life. Give it a rest, give them space, let it unfold, you'd be surprised how well that works.

Now what gets on my nerve really is that people accuse the developers and Tiy of things opposite of what they are doing as if just to contradict something. And you are surprised why mods are trigger happy with banning. The community and the amount of inflammatory topics made just to contradict something or discuss angrily something that was already discussed made them a bit oversensitive. You poke a dog with a stick and then cry when is snaps at you.

Take this statement. This is taking responsibility, explaining the issue, clearing out what they have in mind and what is their plan...yet some people claim this statement is avoiding responsibility and mudding the issue.
People lack empathy and would really do a change of perspective.

There are many things that are not done by more experienced studios, take AAA development. Starbound was announced basically the moment it was started. Big games are usually announced after a few years in development. That perhaps confused a lot of people who were expecting more than there actually ever could have been in such a short time. I think it even confused the developers who thought they could do it in just 2-3 years.

Take Blizzard as an example: Starctaft 2 was in development for more or less 6-7 years. But was initially announced after being about 4 years in development. And even then they did not estimate a release date actually. See the difference? So yes, there were mistakes, they admitted they made mistakes, but instead of dwelling in them and using them as a constant reminder of failure, how about some encouragement?

 

I think a common problem for early access is that once people pay their tiny contribution they think they're entitled to call the shots - I paid five pence so I demand you make my idea of what the game should be. And don't forget to include ALL the things. And I wanted it yesterday!

 

I'm one of those people. I knew about the game the day it was announced and ended up preordering the $45 tier without regrets. I still have yet to play it.
I've read through a few replies on this thread and now I understand why this community is considered toxic. People whining for refunds after putting in 20+ hours simply because development isn't going as fast as they'd like? Personal attacks against the devs as if they were evil incarnate? Are you freaking kidding me?
To the devs: please don't take all the negativity to heart. There's still those of us out there content with our purchase.

 

"They're saying that "finished" and "complete" are subjective."

My pokemon game from 1998 is a complete game. It is an objective fact that it is finished. When a project is complete it can no longer linger in the realm of 'subjective.' I was a fool to pre-order. The hype consumed me. However, I'll take Starbound as a learning experience and never let hype get to me again. Pre-ordering is extremely dangerous. I'll be six feet under before this game is 'finished.' It makes me a bit sad because I am a huge fan of the concept of this game.

 

There are a few complaining who are saying what they feel is missing or what feature they are upset hasn't been implemented yet. THAT has some value to the devs.

"They didn't meet their promises", "it's not done", "you can't call it 1.0". This is just baseless.

@Blue Hair you say your complaints aren't baseless. Well, then what are they based on?

This is beta - tell them what you want to see!

We can debate publishing tactics all day long, we can say "it should be done and I'm mad" 100 different ways. We can say "I was duped because I didn't get what I paid for" - well, then say what you think you paid for that isn't delivered. Be specific.

Tell them what feature you expect or what you feel hasn't been delivered. If you JUST COMPLAIN then don't expect them to listen. Stating how you feel isn't going to affect the direction of development in a positive way. It just gives them more crap to slog through while they are trying to think about (and find, based on posts) what they should prioritize based on community feedback. Any complaint without a specific missing feature stated as the basis of the complaint has the potential of slowing down development.

 

Love you Tiy and your team for all the great work you've guys put into Starbound. It's a shame that those who have a chip on their shoulder seem to be the most vocal in the community. :/
I knew exactly what i was buying when I grabbed the game when it first came out on Early-Access. No where down the line i felt lied to or promises not fulfilled, like some others.

 

I am really impressed with all of you that this thread didn't devolve into meaningless slime. I have gone through all of the reports and I see a number of tempers... a lot of people seem to have missed this:

It's safe to assume the devs have identified the bug with the launcher counting hours and are able to now extract accurate info accordingly.

Anyways -- so long as everyone posts without breaking any forum rules -- the thread will stay open for discussion. So let's do our best to keep cool, right?

 

Story. Please?

 

Keep the good work! I never saw a developer so open with the community and with daily updates, you have my respect for that.