Some thoughts on early access, release dates, the big 1.0

If you don't get that Tiy basically told us 'hey we could be a bad company and could have called it 1.0 by now, so what are you complaining' - which is pretty bad, then you have a problem.
But yeah go on like the others and dodge the critique with stupid semantics. We see how well that goes for Tiy. I mean he totally was able to shut critics up with that.

 

Did he call Starbound 1.0 right now? If no, then he did not release an unfinished product. In fact, he even said that he considers Starbound to be incomplete right now.

I don't understand the criticism, is it that you disagree with something he listed something as a possibility?

 

So far game lacks the main promised part - Storyline. So it is obviously unfinished and unplayable. Personally, i think this game will never be finished. This is the kind of game, where you can add features forever. So please, do the main job first.

 

I LIKED WINDOWS 8 ;~;

 

Ahh so we can all agree that SB is unfinished, right?
That means we can agree that calling it finished would be a bit dumb, right?
And so we can agree that calling such a thing a version 1.0 while it's incomplete would shows us that you're not to worried about customer satisfication, right?
So we should also be able to agree that implying that you could call it 1.0 would mean that you imply you could call it 1.0 and not care about customer satisfication, right?
And we should be able that such a thing can't be a defense against people calling you out on not delivering something finished yet, right?
And now my question for you is, why did Tiy then try to use it as a defense for SB ?

You see i totally get that open sofftware often never reach a 'final' release and a lot of indies games become tons of new versions.
And i also know that Mojang hasn't yet delivered all they promised for the final version. There's even a full site in the wikis for Terraria and Minecraft where we have what Tiy calls "discussed features" instead of promised features.
But all the talk about modern development is a complete waste if you try to use it as a defense to why you're not deliverng what you promised. Best case, he lost sight of what he actually wanted to say and oversaw what the deeper analysis of his words would show, worst case he's telling us to shut up and be happy allready, because he could legally get totally away with calling it 1.0 and therefore delivering everything and no longer have to worry about the whole pre-order thing.

Honestly i've got no mal-intentend against SB or CF, nor against Tiy. I liked the last updates, i'm happy about the Novakids and haven't sweat a single hour because of the SB development. But i will not tolerate an official statement that reads as if someone says "Hey every company does bad stuff", without pointing out that it's not a real defense.

 

Never have I seen people get so passionate about two numbers and a point.

I can't think of a single instance in which I put so much weight in something that is essentially for the developer in the first place, not to mention it's the first time I have heard it applied to customer satisfaction.

 

And if you think that this is what the whole discussion is about, you don't understand it in any way whatsoever.

 

No I saw your earlier posts and didn't have much to add, hence why I wasn't replying to you.

However it would appear that not everyone considers it as arbitrary as the rest. I may be a lot of things my friend but I can see when something is becoming a matter of semantics and the argument of such.

Quite honestly if I was to weigh in on the overall discussion I would maintain my position that much of it is irrelevant and despite some admittedly bad wording, has a fairly clear context that isn't quite in the realms of some of the more colourful claims.

 

Some of you post too much, talk about long winded.


My gripe here is the time-frame of development. Take DESTINY by Bungie right now in its beta-session open to the public. Given as an early access event (pre-orders, already paid for product) this beta was given to the public as a demo basically to alert the dev team of any potential bugs, up to a certain point in the game.

The difference for me is that a final product RELEASE date has been set, and the alpha and beta sessions were announced afterwards as set time frames. Bungie has so far delivered what they promised and we can all expect a finished game with a nice bow on it come September 9th. Granted, Destiny is a 500 million dollar budget game but you get the point.

We were told we would see improvement in Starbound, and aside from very small updates, and not quite so frequent minus the nightlies (which, as stated, are only for people who want to enjoy a broken game), we have seen very little upgrade to the stable branch version.

Point is this, Destiny, and many other games that do beta test runs, have a set period. Starbound has been in this beta-purgatory for almost two years now. We have been told what was to come, been given a progress chart (Progenitor, angry koala, etc. etc.) yet we have not seen any of these implementations put into effect. The status updates about wiring and combat system improvement is great and all, and I have no doubt that a team is working every day to bring this game closer to something we can call a finished product, the problem is the timing.

I mean, how long are you willing to defend this game staying in its beta stage? Two more years? When does it become a failure to deliver in the eyes of you who stand up for these delays?

 

Worded perfectly, though I'm sure there is going to be many who will be hung up on the comparison of a AAA title and an Indie game. It's past time to say that those looking for answers and a timeline are simply impatient or ignorant to the process. We have been patient for more than a year. There are more and more stories hitting the net every day about indie dev studios constantly walking over the people that have supported them, and though I don't think that this is the case here, one cannot ignore the traces of similarity starting to pop up. I'm sorry that this opinion is negative, because everything else about this game is so awesome, and as a fan it really sucks to wonder if this thing will ever be finished or delivered even to the point of fulfilling the promises made.

 

I understand entirely what you're saying here. I appreciate this wonderful game, and am actually kind of shocked to hear that some people are being so immature as to demand refunds or call the devs liars or false-advertisers. Every main update is filled with content that well makes up for the wait between each stable build. The next update looks like the coolest one yet possibly-no, definitely!! The Novakids make me think that I may have a new favorite race, which I never thought possible after the Florans. (Forgive me, my leafy brethren!!) I love finding even the smaller set pieces in the world gen, and the easy modding process makes the game all the much better. I'm still hoping to be able to go to whatever is left of Earth someday much farther along in development, that'd be awesome to reclaim it for my human files! The flesh/brains level inside of tentacle worlds is awesome as well as eerie, and my secondary Floran immediately built a house out of brains and flesh. But I digress. Keep up the good work! This is arguably the best game of it's style that I've ever had the pleasure to play!!!!!

 

If that's the case, then it's still too soon to talk about being release worthy. I'll keep waiting until then.

 

I totally get that the lines are blurring here (and yes, I paid for SB knowing that I was "buying beta", which I have mixed feelings about) I feel like 1.0 SHOULD mean something. At the least, it should mean that:
a) Character wipes wont happen
b) Total sweeping changes would be anathema, and that characters that people have spent weeks building shouldn't become vastly different than they were when last played.

1.0 should mean that the FOUNDATION of the game is set, and largely static. That the changes to come will be additions, not rewrites. I actually applaud CF for not pretending that they're there yet. I do have some really mixed feelings about whether a game in pre-1.0 development should cost what Steam is charging. For a non-AAA game, I think I'd like to see an "early release" game cost a few donation bucks, with the understanding that I'd have to pay full price (or the balance) to keep playing after 1.0.

 

Thats what I expect - please don't let people push you, please stay who you are and continue the good work!

 

This has nothing to do with patches and/or DLC (which is both a natural evolution of games market btw). As you also could notice there is not about "ship anything" or even "ship something". Actually SB story is another example that this statement is so true. That statement is actually somehow can be used as a defense for CF. The problem with CF, is that, exactly, they are trying assure us that product is "ready to be shipped", which is nonsense: The context that’s missing here is that unlike many early access games, the game is already fully playable, and although it doesn’t have everything we want to put in it yet (which is what’s holding it back from a 1.0 release) I feel we could have released what we currently have AS 1.0, outside of early access.

The whole Tiy's post could look much better is there was a single release date sentence. Yet they prefer more comfortable forever-beta position, and also accusing their users in being rude after already shifting release date for at least two times, and now without a relese date at all. Admit that you messed up major in time estimation, ask for forgiveness, set a release date, work hard and git it done!

 

I'd respond, but I think this guy's reply to another person fits perfectly as a reply to yours and is worded way better than anything I'd say:

 

Well, it could not be considered finished, since it doesn't have all promised features (even considering only stretch goals of preorder). If there were no promises (as with Terraria or Minecraft for example), then I could possibly agree with you.

I try to explain why it matters. Take into consideration two extreme approaches:
1. You don't promise anything about game, don't take preorders, you just make it, and then it's done you start selling it.
Pros: you are free of obligations of any sort.
Cons: you are limited in creation of a "hype" around game, you are limited in resources, and game gains popularity slower.
2. You promise a lot about game, take preorders and set a release date. Promises and release date are required since nobody will buy a game he knows nothing about and at unknown time.
Pros: you have money from preorders.
Cons: you have obligations about your promises and release date.

People bought SB because they liked something in the promises. And they expect them to be fullfilled. But Tiy is trying to take both Pros with no Cons, and that's what angers most people.

 

I cannot believe that this thread is still circling around and around arguing the semantics of semantics of semantics. It's pure pedantry in motion.

Why is there not a 'report thread' button.

 

It's normal then people are angry then they do not receive that was promised in time. And Tiy was first who started abusing semantics (quote: But what does finished mean here?) for personal defense.

 

I was referring to you referring to this specific Tiy thread, not you being mad for the game taking longer to release than you'd like in general - which is really what you trailed off into.