Bug/Issue Some bugs and some suggestions!

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by NARFNra, Sep 17, 2017.

  1. NARFNra

    NARFNra Space Hobo

    Hi! I really like the idea you've got going here and think the game is pretty cute so far. I'm excited for the next update or whenever we'll get that boss : p I had a fun time with the game, but I found a few small bugs and had a few suggestions. There's a whole bunch of stuff here in the suggestions area, and I really hope that it doesn't come across as harsh. I totally understand the game is in beta right now and that you're working really hard on it. They're just things that think might really help the game's dungeons feel more unique and alive on each generation.

    Before I continue, I'd like to say that I really liked some bits, like
    - The bosses are neat!
    - The work done to create the proc gen world in general is cool and fits the story themes!
    - The art rocks!
    - I like the enemy design at work I've seen so far!
    - The plot seems like it's going interesting places and I'd like to see where it concludes!

    Anyway, let's get started.

    === BUGS ===
    - First of all, I assume you know this one, but the Bicycle travel gets weirdly buggy and seems to put you in random parts of the room. I wanted to end up in front of The Guild LLC, but it was right next to a drop off and I often ended up on the wrong side and had to go all the way around.
    - I think enemy timers and the pause screen aren't working properly. For example, if you pause after a Dolphininja surfaces, wait a few seconds, and unpause, they dive immediately without firing their projectiles.
    - This involves Erasing maps, which I will talk about more in a bit - after you erase your maps, bosses seem to respawn and they can still give you hearts, which lets you essentially farm life.
    - Sometimes a bomb dungeon can force you to blow open a blockage in a space too small to dodge it (the only way to avoid the bomb's radius is to go back in the room you came from)

    === SUGGESTIONS ===
    - I'd appreciate it if erasing maps was explained better. I found my entrance to level 5 blocked by the spawned guard and thought that it was an unwinnable situation due to random spawn, so I tried to erase maps thinking it'd fix that problem. I'm not really sure what exactly it did. That said, I later realized I could just walk through that NPC, so it worked out, but I feel like a better explanation of what erasing maps does and is for would be nice.

    - I think that exploration still needs a bit more to make it worthwhile, both on the overworld and in dungeons. On the Overworld, I often didn't find the edges of the map very interesting because there weren't many notable item types that could spawn there.
    - As for dungeons...
    >> I think it might be worth allowing some sidequest items to generate in dungeons so there's a point to exploring them beyond just the next linear key and/or mostly boring resource items like meteors. I'm not entirely sure what you could add beyond the potions and tunics, but maybe having optional items that add new capabilities without being directly related to the game progression would be fun?
    >> I think you could afford to start creating multiple key dungeons a bit earlier than happens right now.
    >> I think that it might be cool to somehow try to prioritize "hallways and payoff rooms" design in dungeons. It doesn't have to apply to every one of them (maybe you could include a variety of dungeon generation methods that are randomly chosen each time?) but I always feel weird getting a key or item in the middle of a pathway which then ends in a bunch of useless dead end rooms - increasing the chance that important items form in dead end rooms would do wonders for making dungeons feel more dungeony to me. Obviously, this isn't a hard limit - I guess what really bothers me is that having major items spawn in the "corridor" type rooms with the thin curving passageways feels very strange to me.
    >> This is probably just a consequence of the game being in beta right now, but I'd really appreciate more types of generatable dungeon puzzles. The block puzzles are pretty fun, and it'd be cool to have some other types that could form.
    >> Also, the puzzles in the laboratory were really good and helped make the items feel different from each other - having some method to generate special "puzzle rooms" based on the dungeon's item might help the game feel more like the items are fit to the dungeon. Obviously, this one's very hard, so I'd understand if it's just not possible, but I do wonder if it's one of those times where the Binding of Isaac style "hand craft a bunch of possible puzzles" theme would be a good idea.
    >> I think a few more dungeon songs or dungeon aesthetic themes might be cool. Again, possibly a beta thing and I don't know if your composer is willing to do more music, but found it a little weird getting the same dungeon theme several times over. I suppose that's the way Zelda 1 and Zelda 3 did it, though, so it's not a huge difference, I'm just thinking about it from a GB Zelda point of view.
    --- I really like the Jungle dungeon because it's so different from the others, so here's some other visually distinct ideas: Underground ocean with deep sea tiles instead of some room walls, ruined wooden mansion, jail with cell shapes and bars like in the last area, mountain with sky-like pits instead of some room walls, lava dungeon.
    >> I'd really appreciate dedicated minibosses of some sort. I don't think they're quite as hard to design as stage bosses since they don't need to be weak to specific items. The normal enemies in this game are fairly easy so far and only usually a threat in large groups, so the current "big enemies with the same AI" minibosses don't feel very impressive. They don't have to be super amazing or as cool as the bosses or anything, but it'd be neat to have minibosses like the GB Zeldas did. Actually, on that point, you could make the minibosses have simple item weaknesses so long as their dungeon comes after it (think the Dodongo Snakes from Link's Awakening)... but anyway, some sort of unique minibosses would be cool.
    >> This one's a little weird to say, but I think the hammer might be a little overpowered. I know it's supposed to make bombs less of a pain, but it kind of invalidates almost any use of them except in that one laboratory puzzle and the bomb-weak boss. Maybe some sort of happy medium could be reached? I do like being able to just slam stuff lategame, but it really kind of becomes my go to and trivializes the shield crab guys.
    >> A suggestion for making more enemies relevant late game, perhaps add more unique variants of some of the first enemies so late dungeons can have more variety? Thinking mostly of the slimes and skeleton guys, who are essentially irrelevant by the end of the game.

    Here's some additional generic ideas I thought of that might be small but increase variety.

    - Enemy Ideas
    >> Enemy types specifically weak to certain weapons could be designed to spawn after the dungeon you get the item they're weak to. Think Gohma! The Zelda gams often have enemies specifically weak to a certain item and it heps the game feel more puzzle-y.
    >> Add some new possible projectiles for enemies that use them, such as
    --- Thrown bombs
    --- Waving projectiles (sine wave path)
    --- Some sort of snowflake that explodes into shards on impact
    --- Large but slow moving projectile
    --- Temporarily homing projectile
    --- Projectile that leaves trail behind (like the poison snails, or flames, or something)
    --- Boomerangs
    --- Rebounding projectile (bounces diagonally a few times then goes off screen)
    --- Bubble that pops into smallr bubbles when damaged, like asteroids
    --- Make projectile scale with big enemies (right now giant wizards shoot tiny projectiles)

    - Tile Ideas
    >> Conveyor tiles (could also have currents)
    >> Slippery tiles (either just harder to control or pokemon-style "you slide all the way across" puzzles)
    >> More forms of switches to unlock doors or create a bridge or something - could add more variety to the "item needed to cross this room" rooms for things like bombs or strength gauntlet.
    >> One way doors in dungeons (might be kind of difficult to get into dungeon generation, but I think they'd make exploration more interesting, although being able to warp to the beginning of the dungeon at any time might render them moot)

    >> Maybe a boat or variety of boats that could be generated on world map on water tiles, with an NPC living in them. Or maybe various shops could be spawned as boats instead of ending up on islands?
    >> Perhaps some sort of unique landmark system, choosing from things like a big unique tree or pyramid or something to stick somewhere to make the current generated world feel more unique.
    >> Multiple floors in dungeons? Could include pitfalls and stairs to make them more interesting. Would also allow for deep water diving to go down a floor as a potential swim-item upgrade.
    >> Allow for generation of rooms you can enter from one way but which are sealed off from the other half in dungeons as well as in the overworld, maybe?


    Thank you for taking the time out to make the game. I hope this hasn't come across as whiny or unreasonable, I just like the game's idea and would really be happy to see more variety in these regards to give it good replay value. I think the game has a lot of potential and adding more variety would really help it do well!

    Have a great day!
      Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
    • tccoxon

      tccoxon Procedurally Generated Programmer Chucklefish

      Great post, thank you!

      I am already aware of the issues and bugs you've raised. In fact, I *just* fixed the wonky bicycle warping, haha! Map erasure is an old feature on the way out. Its original purpose was to allow players to update save files generated by older versions of the game with new features, but in practice there's no need for that since the game is only a few hours long. The other issues I'm working on :)

      The suggestions you've provided are giving me a lot to think about. Some of them fit in quite well with other features I've been considering.

      Share This Page