So I just "Finished" the game, and im worried about its core mechanics

How do you even finish a sandbox?

 

The difference is that in the current system, you MUST defeat Boss A, unlocking 1, 2, and 3, before you're even allowed to fight Boss B, who will unlock 4, 5, and 6

We want to see a system where we can fight Bosses A, B, C, etc. in any order we want, deciding what order to unlock things instead of being forced to unlock 1 2 and 3 before we can even try to unlock 4 5 and 6

 

True 100%, christ guys think a little about it...its not a linear adventure game

 

On one hand, yeah, it's a sandbox. The element of construction is kinda implicit, and what sets the game apart from other adventure games (or in 2D "Metroidvania").

On the other hand, the elements of stats and exploration stymie the practical necessity for construction. Building bases is largely a waste of time and why everyone just keeps their essential tools and storage installed on their ship. Furthermore, ALL of the overt challenge comes from surviving out in the field.

The element of luck is something implicit to procedural generation and it can be turned into a massive skinner grindbox.
Fortunately this isn't Diablo 3 and with time such things can be worked around. (scanners and such can help weed out planets that would otherwise be a waste of time)

So, with time, these issues will probably get sorted out with new content. (what a revelation, 12-13 pages into this topic.)

As for my personal random musing...

If I were making a rough "wish list" to address core progression:
-Make crafting options a bit more varied at higher tiers "Sideways progression".
-Weapon component system that lets players convert found weapons of a given tier into salvage components.
-Enable uses for older ores in a way that isn't obnoxious (difficult to do, but not impossible)
-Add in a reason to craft bases. Especially on dangerous/hostile planets.
-Create random planet/system/sector wide events. As incentive to revisit older sectors/systems or to possibly establish a presence in those.

 

The sentiment has been expressed earlier in the thread. The issue is not with how much content exists, it's a concern for how that content is accessed. It doesn't matter if you add 500 amazing pieces of content to Tier 6, our issue is that we cannot access that content without having to work through tiers 1-5 first.

 

People are calling for no progression. They want everything unlocked so there are no barriers to any content. What you are saying doesn't actually change anything as adding another option for progression simply gives the illusion of choice. Because in the end you had to do one of the options to get the final result. And the idea that making all upgrades "side" upgrades is a koke as well because in reality there will always be a best armor or weapon. People like to talk about complete horizontal progression as something that can actually exist. In reality there is always a best so in games there is a best. All adding horizontal progression instead of vertical progression does is lower the time it takes to get the best whatever. That just decreases playability for many people. Horizontal unlocks/progression can exist on top of the vertical. This is where many people have said that ores should give other stats in order to stay relevant past their respective tier. Taking out content isn't going to help the game just because a small handful of people don't want to fight a boss. Giving better reasons for defeating them is the way to go. It only feels like a hard block to contrnt because there's no lead up to the fight nor is their any content to keep people content before having to beat it. Once it feels more natural to want to beat the bosses I think ppl will feel differently.

 

Disclaimer: I've only read the first page.

With that said, I agree with the opening post. I have nothing further to contribute to the opening post's concerns.
I am, however, concerned with the people dismissing criticism because it's not a finished product.
When we beta test something, and by all means this is a beta test, we must give feedback on what we can play right now, not on what we could possibly play in the future.

So Future Content to be designed, developed and added must be immediately dismissed in feedback and criticism on the game we have right now.

 

You're still being railroaded as long as all choices eventually lead to the same "Final Goal G". That's my core argument for a railroaded system. The only difference relative to your explanation is the order in which the railroad tracks are placed. Should the fire boss railroad be placed in front of the water boss railroad, or should it be placed behind the ice boss railroad?

I was describing how a game could potentially achieve a free unlock system, a system where you're free to choose any path you want, based on your previous actions and their consequences.

Excuse me...? Branching is overly restrictive? I don't mean to be rude, but were you overly drunk when typing that? Branching gives you choices and tells the game to consider your actions when making future actions. Your decision actually changes the ending. You aren't being told, "you have multiple choices, but there's not much point since they all lead to the same conclusion in the end".

 

Well I will say the starting post is from a while back but. I get the feeling people are jumping to conclusions.

The Beta we were given on day one got a major development overhaul (Changes to Core Combat and Difficulty Settings/Scale) this will have changed the Priority for the Additional Content that was planned to be added.

Every piece that was to be implemented after the vanilla launch might and most probably will need to be re balanced.

If you compare the planned features list to the current beta release and think about the difference it will be almost another product with those in game. (We cant judge what we have not tested yet ).

When you make games that use procedural generation mechanics it does not mean that it will be easy to add millions of features and keep a good sandbox game. I means you need to have Strict generation rules/constraints in place for everything that can be randomized

So far we have tested some of the core features of Star bound but have not had access to the parts that will glue it all together.

Also most of the features had been planned far before the Beta launch but only sections of the game got released so we can test the core and the devs can debug.

This is Beta not Demand a Feature.
But suggestions are allowed.

Reading these forums over the last 2 weeks i think ive seen almost 1000 game developers/producers wow the market must be flooded

 

Branching isn't prohibitive. A single path leads to 1 conclusion, or if it is influenced by another path, it leads to a 2nd conclusion. That 2nd path by itself can lead to a 3rd conclusion. You aren't restricted to a fixed ending in a proper branching game. Each path can potentially be influenced by other paths to create a unique story, provided an earlier action doesn't make a later action impossible.

E.G. If you kill someone, you've eliminated the possibility of working with them in the future.
E.G. If you pissed someone off, maybe you can bribe them to have them consider you friendly again, or you can infuriate them, or you can send someone to assassinate them.

My point is, in a true free unlock system, branching plays a major role. Let's say at the beginning, you have 10 options to choose from. Let's say each of those 10 options gives 3 new options. Let's also say that as you're taking a stroll, you encounter more options. These options have the potential to influence the first 10 options you start off with, in addition to the 30 new options you unlocked. Let's also say that these 40 options can also influence these "random encounter" options. Each and every one of these interactions would produce a unique ending, or a variation to a unique ending.

That my friend, is what a true free unlock system really is. You are unrestricted in what choices you have, and which choices you can choose at any given time.

 

We have different ideas conceptually then, about what free unlock is, or what it's supposed to mean. I'm going to stick by my definition and you're free to stick by yours.

 

My concept of a free unlock system revolves around all content being accessible the moment it "exists". The free unlock system does not apply to combinations that have yet to be created. It is not locked. It just doesn't exist yet.

 

The problem is that the op isn't criticizing what is already in the game. The post states that he understands the game is in beta but that content will never make it better because it is inherently flawed because of its mechanics. That sounds like a statement about stuff that isn't already in the game. The rest of the pages you missed are back and forth about why more content will fix a lot of the "errors" that currently exist. My personal take is that the mechanics are simple but that doesn't mean they are bad for the game. If we only look at one piece of the puzzle it sometimes doent make sense. But when you look at the puzzle as a whole things start to become clear. I agree we can criticize what we have but we should also consider what else is coming soon and work that into our solution for how to make the content we already have work better.

Edit: ill also chime in on the free unlocks. Free unlocks means there is no vertical progression. There in an exhaustive number of posts about progression in this thread already but free unlocks is a major part of it. While I agree that adding horizontal lrogression through many side unlcks is a great idea I don't think that vertical unlocks need to be done away with. The system we have already has tiers. I like the tiers as it keeps people from getting owned on new planets. And for those that want a challenge they can just wear crap armor in new tiers. All we need to add are all the side upgrades to each tier which all become available once you get to that tier. It doesn't solve the problem of people wanting all unlocks available at once but at least it adds depth and choice.

 

I will say one thing: I found it really annoying that the game stuck to picks and axes in different materials again. I then worked really hard to get the robotic workbench to build a copper drill and was enraged to discover I had to get tier 4 tech unlocked to make a drill from beginner material. Absurd.

Rest of the game I'm fairly happy with, although my initial drive was to find fuel to go to a planet with a gun merchant, only to find that by the time I'd done this my improved armour and salvaged melee weapons were actually far more beneficial than a rifle.

 

I think a post from a bit earlier is in order here.

What makes you think there's going to be a Final Goal G to be established? It's a sandbox. The concept is that you go around exploring things. The main quest system currently planned would be a linear path sure but take that away and why does there need to be an end goal?

You seem to think I'm suggesting that "You can fight bosses A, B, and C in any order you want, but you need to have defeated all three of them to challenge Boss D"

What I'm actually saying is "You can fight Bosses A, B, C, D, etc. I any order you want, if you even want to, and defeating them doesn't lead to anything beyond the particular item/unlock they drop."

 

I wasn't talking about starbound as a sandbox game when talking about Final Goal G. I was talking about the tier progression system and where that system eventually leads you, which is Rubium. It's irrelevant what choices you make to get to Rubium. You always end up at Rubium.

One important thing to note is that Starbound is not a pure sandbox game. It encourages exploration. It boasts 5 sectors that present increasing levels of difficulty. Given the fact that the ores are spread across all 10 tiers across all 5 sectors, in addition to the fact that each bar type and its derivatives introduce increasingly powerful gear, a system of progression/unlocks is needed to not only prevent ill-equipped players from suiciding, but to also give that feeling of accomplishment and progression.

I think the issue here is that you are focusing too much on starbound as a sandbox experience, thus you are expecting a completely optimized sandbox experience. Starbound is -not- a complete sandbox experience however. It has sandbox aspects, but that's about it.