So, having reached endgame content and spent 34 hours ingame.

how work the crafting systems, like zero said will be need add a upgrade bench, so they add new receipt for normal armor we can make, who whit add ressource make them reach the middle tier of the other set.

So we will have 2 kit of armor by each 10 lv
one at lv 3 and one at 7 lv then upgrade the lv 3 armor to a lv 5 armor then and lv 7 armor to lv 10 armor

 

any chance you would be interesting in posting the cords for said level 40 planet with a gun shop

 

Read various threads on the forum, I'm not going to go a-digging through my notepad file just yet!

I'm going to add my condensed suggestion to the original post and start a detailed suggestion write-up in a new thread.

 

Most people don't fight the UFO boss with a 10 APEN weapon. Which is why they have a hard time with him.

And the scaling is broken for weapons. Currently the scaling encourages you to go to a level 20,30 or 40 planet once you unlock a new sector. Because if you can get a weapon with APEN 19-20, 29-30 or 39-40 early on in a new sector you won't really need to use any other weapon for the duration of that sector.

 

Sorry, what part of my response made you think that I hadn't? I was commenting particularly based on the first paragraph that you are polling people on,

but I read through the rest of it as well. I didn't have particularly strong opinions of your other points but if you want me to reply to each one, then fine.

2. If armor dyes aren't working right now, that's obviously a bug / unimplemented feature which will be added eventually, else why bother having the items in there?

2.5. I think it's intentional for the spawned NPCs to be attackable, just as it's possible to attack friendly village NPCs. The solution here is to not be wildly firing off your weapons when an NPC is next to you / in the direction of your shot. Basic gun safety IRL is that you never point a gun at something you don't want to shoot, apply that here.

3. Legendary guns having a .05% chance of dropping off of random villagers sounds like it's meant to be an easter egg more than anything, I wouldn't worry/complain too much about easter egg items not necessarily being useable. If you meant to be saying that these legendary guns should spawn at a set, high, level, I'd disagree on the basis that one lucky villager-slaughtering bastard could end up with a level 100 gun on his first world and trivialize almost all of his combat from there. Note that it's also possible that having them drop from ordinary villagers for now could be a placeholder until there's suitably high level content for them to drop off of.

Does that address your post thoroughly enough to satisfy you?

 

Yes, it does - However, the first time I said it I believed you were parroting. I had already stated exactly what I bolded from your post. We were in agreement and you were agreeing rather aggressively. Believing you to be an alien race that responds to aggressive behavior positively, I replied aggressively and curtly as well.

In actuality, I am simply tired and a bit touchy - I've not slept since the release of the game and wrote an essay for a final exam in college earlier today. I am now going to go to sleep and make sure this blueprint idea I have is actually as sound as I think it is after I wake up and perform my morning routine. My apologies, and many thanks for your input.

 

Almost all monsters have 100HP. Unique creatures in the dungeon have 150HP. The only difference in levels. It's boring and dull. I want to see a lot youngest, but weak creatures. Large and dangerous creatures. Nimble, but causing little damage, which is very difficult to get. More ranged attacks with the effect (Slow, weakness, stun etc.)

 

So couldn't they technically just do a mix of the 100 level, and the 10 levels with easy/medium/hard monsters?

 

Last reply before I go to bed: All monsters have a hard HP limit based on their type. THIS IS MECHANICALLY PERFECT. Fish have 20, air enemies have 70, and land mobs randomly generated have 100, as the player does. Armor is the problem, not HP. I do agree about more status effects, but again, this is early, early beta - practically a buy-in alpha - and that's meat. They need the bones first.


EDIT:

Not really. I don't understand your statement, so forgive me if I'm misinterpreting it.

Condensing threat level does three things for us, my little delicious treat. I'm going to burger king when I get up.

1: It REMOVES CONTENT. The random generation of the guns is literally limited 4x from where it is now, and 10x from where it is planned to be. That's a negative thing.

2: It REBALANCES ARMOR. This is a positive thing, but I think it can be solved in a much simpler manner that I'm detailing when I wake up.

3: It REBALANCES ENEMIES. There are enemies that will always be hard for players in that sector - I think once you reach the top of the line in a tech level and can fight the boss, the enemies should be average to you at most.

Peerless combat is currently impossible within the tiers, and I love the feel of progression beyond getting oneshot. The fix here is being able to craft level 9/10 armor in T1 after some work or scavenging, 19/20 in T2, and 29/30 in T3. That will fix things, and my sleep-deprived brain believes this ENTIRELY. I'm actually sleeping now, I promise.

 

you should remove blueprint drop and simply make the armor drop like i said on my earlier post has adding blueprint will add more stage to get that armor, but still in the same look for the tier threat . by the way i think you should read this post when you wake up has more idea should be talk here.

 

I don't like the idea. Read the entire thread, I've called it obfuscation before and I'm going to keep calling it that until you understand what I mean by it since I can't think of a better description than "Cluttering drop tables with unnecessary things I'd rather pick and choose". I like my weapons random and my armor firm.

 

I had to log on just to say, I like you. Keep fighting the good fight!

 

In the current system, armor multiplies or divides damage, which is effectively the same as multiplying or dividing health values. Your health number stays the same, but your effective health changes. I'm sure that the new system will keep armor similar for players, but mobs will have variable health values instead of all being 100, which also means you can get satisfying huge damage numbers when you attack with late game weapons.

At least, that's what I hope for, anyway.

 

The problem with the current system is not that there is an armor mechanic but rather that the armor mechanic simply acts as a negative value to whatever value your damage is and likewise your armor penetration acts as a positive addition to the value of your damage which is somewhat over simplified. There needs to be somewhat more sophisticated maths involved whereby if you have a lot of damage and very little armor penetration, it should hit low armor enemies very hard scaling based on an armor penetration to armor ratio rather than low level maths and likewise if you have a weapon that does little damage but penetrates a lot of armor then it should hit low armor enemies less and high armor targets higher scaling based on the armor penetration.

Eg. Axe has 40 damage and 10 armor penetration, Enemy has 9 armor
40 x (1 + (10-9)/10) = 44

Eg #2. Axe has 40 damage and 10 armor penetration, Enemy has 2 armor
40 x (1 + (10-2)/10) = 72

As you can see, its not just a simple, 40 + 10 -5, equation but rather armor acts as a multiplier depending on the difference between the armor penetration and the armor of the enemy mob which applies to the damage of the weapon. This will make:
A ) Low damage weapons such as daggers worthwhile because they will get that bonus more often due to a higher attack speed meaning they will shred low armor targets.
B ) Slow weapons with high armor penetration will be much more effective against high armor targets because a lot of fast, low armor penetration blows will suffer the negative effects of the armor penetration/armor ratio.
C ) Armor on characters will basically have the same effects as they currently do.

This is just my personal opinion and if anyone sees any flaws with my system then please feel free to correct me

 

do you try a Disgaea game? you cant really have bigger numbers for atk

 

I am in two minds here:

Firstly : I agree with the feeling behind your OP fully and think the 100 level system is the better than the new system being thought up, the weapons work well and I find no major issues (except the bosses) in dealing effective sustained damage to mobs. The main problem with this system is that armor and armor Pen haven't been explained properly and lack a few steps between the tiers.

Secondly : I disagree with the solution of blueprints mainly because depending on random drop rates for progression just brings back memories of Warcraft vanilla dungeon runs but also because its too easy to bypass tiers of progression just like in Terraria. An upgrade system would seem like an easy option but in turn that just offers more grinding to solve the issue (all be it guaranteed grinding) at the moment this is the route I would prefer:

Start > No armor

Threat 1 - 4 = Gain copper armor

Threat 5-9 = Gain tier 1 - Iron armor

Threat 10 - 14 = Gain tier 1 upgrade - use silver

Threat 15 - 19 = Gain tier 2 - Steel armor

Threat 20 - 24 = Gain tier 2 upgrade - use gold

Threat 25 - 29 = Gain tier 3 - Titanium armor

Threat 30 - 34 = Gain tier 3 upgrade - use platinum
​

and so forth. The challenge would then be balancing the armor so that, for example, tier 1 armor is easy to survive on a threat level 5 planet whilst being hard to survive on a threat level 9 planet this would give the flexibility of difficulty required in the game to obtain the 'right weapon' for you and based on the skill of the player. Of course this method runs out of 'up-gradable ores' after tier three, however ores will be getting over hauls anyway so I see no problem looking at this design change. At the end of the day we don't know fully how the new system will operate either, so it is worth trying it out before requesting a status quo on the situation imo.

 

i think you got a not bad idea, and about ores i think i got one, what about do mix of ore like steel for get more tiers? like mixing copper and iron for make bronze set, or other ore/material.

About grinding there is grinding in every game, how long it is determine how long get the stuff.

 

I sincerely hope that they reconsider this change to 1-10 levels only before the game is in its "release" state. If they remove the variety in threat level in the different systems this game is going to become much less fun.

 

I disagree with those last parts. I played the beta for around 40 hours mostly on my own (5-10 of those spent dealing either with technical issues or mediocre tasks like building/organizing my inventory), getting up to Sector X before taking a break till the next patch, and I can safely say that the current implementation is awful. Now, don't get me wrong, I enjoy the armor penetration system in and of itself (as well as the hugeness that 100 levels appears to be), but it is just not consistently fun. On paper and at first glance, it seems to be a relatively unique system that should allow for simplicity yet complex challenge while also having constant scaling and progression. It does this for the first 15 levels and a helluva lot more after level 30, but everything I experienced inbetween showed me how terribly implemented it is.

While there are many different ways to fix up the game, the majority of the problem lies in the system itself, which is why its a great thing that they're changing it. It allows for too many gaps rather than the consistent flow that should always be there in a randomized sandbox. You're either killing things in one shot because you have a weapon that's 3 levels above them, dying to enemies in one shot because they're 3 levels above you, or having balanced fun at 5-10 level intervals (until level 30, man does it open up at level 30). This is just simply not good, especially when you're playing by yourself (which this game should mostly be balanced around, with scaling obviously happening in multiplayer).

The devs have the option of either appealing to the masochistic gamers, reworking their current system for balance, or adding in a vastly large amount of armor sets that they don't have planned during the beta (the randomized weapon system is already in place so at least they've got that going for them). Two of these are a bit unreasonable in their own ways. The devs realize this, and are taking the option to actually develop a hopefully better and more balanced system. They're not removing content, they're not dumbing down the game, they're balancing and adjusting numbers so that their game is consistently fun all around. By mixing their current model with a more traditional model, they can do so much more to make the game progress at a good pace for hardcore players, casual players, and the people inbetween...yet it seems that a good chunk of people think that this is suppose to make the game kiddy level.

For a reminder, here's the blog post (which literally states that they're not reducing content)

Here's my comprehension of the blog post (and therefore, why I have taken the stance I have), if I turn out to be wrong that's okay. Obviously my mostly solo experience makes me heavily biased, but hey, it happens.

First up, the Sector levels and Enemy levels:

It looks like they're changing the levels from 1-100 to 1-10, which will be merely a number change to make perception of sectors easier at a glance. Sectors were already separated by 10 level segments (Alpha is 1-10, Beta is 11-20, Gamma is 21-30, etc) and so this is actually a really nice change. There's 10 tiers of items, 10 sectors, and 10 overall sector levels, so its definitely a nicer flow.

Enemy levels within the sectors are going to be summed up into difficulty markers related to their sector, which probably means something like in Sector Alpha level 1-3 enemies would be considered "Easy," level 4-6 would be considered "Medium," and level 7-10 would be considered "Hard." When you moved on from Sector Alpha, you'd would most likely have been able to take on level 7-10 enemies and so level 11-13 enemies (which would be marked as "Easy" in Sector Beta) would legitimately be easy.

This means that the enemies and the sectors are relatively gonna be mostly the same in scaling, and does not directly mean the game is going to be vastly easier overall just because you don't get individual numbers showing on their bars. I actually really like this change, because it becomes less of a "hunt the number" game and more of a "Can I deal with those tiers of enemies?" type of game. I think it'd add a sense of unknown, since just because an enemy is marked as "Easy," it doesn't necessarily mean he would've been 1:1 with you. They could just as well be the equivalent of a level 3 or 4 while you have level 1 gear, and you'll have to evaluate them on how much random health they have in comparison to your weapon. It would also add to enemy variety, since I'd assume that now health could be variable for a monster to monster basis rather than just monster type.

Second, rework of combat, damage, and armor system:

This is fantastic, really. At the moment the speed in which rare things become obsolete is disheartening and unfun, so by introducing scaling base values to gear and monsters rather than level, they allow weapons and armor to be effective throughout the sectors they're from. The top gear from those sectors would stay effective at the beginning of the next sector, rather than being largely ineffective for most of it. They'd literally solve the current progression problems outright since you wouldn't get screwed over at every other turn.

For example, I finally found a pirate ship to buy guns from 30 hours into the game. I really wanted guns and I was excited to finally get some. It was a great moment when I was blasting the level 22 enemies with the level 22 guns, like I was finally making some kind of big step up into the game. 3 enemy levels later they were doing hardly any damage and I had to just sulk it out because logically, exploring obviously hadn't given me very many pirate ships. Persistence can only get you so far when your sniper rifle goes from 4 shotting enemy's its level to doing like 1-5 damage only a few levels above it. Of course, you could always use coordinates from other people but that removes all of the fun of trying to progress in a linear, logical manner. If the implement it in the way I think they are, then my level 22 guns would still have been effective through out the Gamma sector, even if not heavily by the end, some viability is better than absolutely none.

Also, I'm absolutely sure that everyone can agree that armor was woefully disappointing between 15-30, especially since I could hardly find platinum and eventually had to just dupe platinum bars. While they are balancing out the ores as well, the overall system change will be great as well. They won't have to resort to randomized armor or making armors for every level of progression (though both of those would still be cool imo, just that'd take a lot of work), and can instead balance out the current armors to fit logically within their sectors. Oh, and being able to have more health as an indicator of your character's growth is a quite a bit more interesting than just levels.


That's about it really, I can't find any faults with what they've said even as someone who likes a challenge. The current implementation never seemed like it would be final, lest they had a lot more basic content hiding away than I figured. I'm hoping that the game will progress like Dark Souls, where skill becomes more prevalent and not so much just numbers. Being one hit killed by enemies just isn't fun, and one hit killing enemies can get old fast.

 

I will miss the 100 threat levels they have now, condensing them into just 10 just seems weird to me. Assuming it will now be threat level 1 for sector 1, and so on, what would be the point of even having a threat level of the planet, if you know all of them in each sector will be the same threat level?

I actually found the armor penetration mechanic to be rather interesting, and it is such as shame that they decided to scrap it instead of even trying to tweak it. I don't see why they couldn't have couldn't have gone with a system where the armor penetration does more damage on armored enemies, and moderately less or something on less armored enemies, and visa versa for less armor penetrating weapons. But on that note they could have done something where weapons can ether have armor penetration or not. So normal weapons would do more damage against unarmored enemies, while AP weapons would do more damage against armored ones.