SLCFR: Frankenstein Chicken

No, I mean you switch in a ghost type right when they use the move so they don't get a chance to set up the rocks at all.

 

No, that's what he's saying; It doesn't block them because ghosts are immune to normal, much as Spikes wouldn't be blocked by a flying type and Toxic Spikes aren't blocked by steel types. The hazard is laid anyway, it's just that the ghost type wouldn't be hit by them when switching in.
TL;DR Type immunities don't block hazards.

 

Oh. I didn't know that.
damn you game freak

 

Sounds reasonable enough, but let's take a look at what that nerf means overall.

That would mean 12.5% damage for 2x effective, and 6.25% for normally effective damage. In comparison, a single layer of Spikes does 12.5% damage. That means for Pokemon that aren't Bug, Fire, Flying or Ice types, Stealth Rocks are effectively worse than traditional Spikes. For Pokemon who have a single weakness to Rock, they are only about as good as Spikes. This leaves the only real discernible advantage of Stealth Rocks over Spikes to be for use against Pokemon who are 4x weak of Rock, and Pokemon who otherwise would not be hit by Spikes.

I've looked up a list of Pokemon who are 4x weak of Rock, and there's about 15 or so fully evolved Pokemon. Most of them are Bug/Flying types like Dustox that don't see much use. That leaves a few key Pokemon like Volcarona, Talonflame, Charizard, and Mega-Pinsir for OU, with some other key Pokemon like Yanmega and Scyther for lower tiers. Talonflame, Volcarona, and Charizard actually have Roost to heal (should they choose to use it), and Mega-Pinsir only has to worry about the 4x weakness if he's switching in after Mega-Evolving.

Considering all this, I personally think the nerf is a bit much. The Pokemon that take 50% damage from Stealth Rock, while significant, are few. So few that I could see Stealth Rock becoming as popular as Spikes are now, meaning they'd only be on teams that really focus on Phazing and Stalling, if that. A more reasonable nerf would be to limit damage to a maximum of 25% (leaving the other stages the same), though I think we'd see a lot more Talonflames around then there already are because 25% is nothing in comparison to the 50% it would usually take upon a switch-in.

Man I love discussing Pokemon theory and shit. If only I had this much interest in stuff like Physics. Aw well.

 

That was a test to see if anyone is actually paying attention, and you passed. Press A to claim your reward.

 

I can't press A.

 

This was supposed to be edited into my post 20 minutes ago, but technology.

 

Master Balls don't pass down tho.

 

Was not aware of that. I was mostly thinking about how one might reuse the same Master Ball to catch Pokemon only to replace it with a Poke Ball later to get it back should the original ball be left intact.

Also, I just noticed in your reply that I spelled "Master Ball" as "Mater Ball" in that post.


I can't even imagine how ugly that ball would look, though it would be funny if the successful capture message was, "YOU GOT 'R DONE!"

 

Agreed. I admit i'm not liking reading those kinda Posts either...


Even though it might nerf Ghosts too hard, I dunno, I've long thought it'd be cool if the Rapid Spin-like mechanic of Trap Dispelling was added to Gyro Ball in addition to what Gyro Ball does already. I just worry about if it would be imbalanced to have another Trap Removal that nothing can spin block in addition to Defog making for 2 such ways to unstoppably kill traps.

 

I am all for more unblockable hazard removals. Hazards are stupid, and WAY too easy to set up considering how hard it is to get rid of them.

So, I suggest we put a hazard removing part to everything that has a spinning animation.

 

Careful, just cause ya don't like how 'cheap' traps feel doesn't mean we wanna make traps useless & unworth the move slot entirely... don't forget about stuff like Spikes & Toxic Spikes... should they suffer for the actions of Sticky Web & Stealth Rock too?

Ya forget that dispelling traps is not THE only defense against them... there are other ways to protect yourself from them too. Have ya forgotten about Magic Bounce? I haven't won many battles I foolishly got my own Sticky Web bounced back to me. Look up the move Magic Coat on Serebii too, ya might like it... it's especially effective if the foe does not know you're packing it. Taunt does exist as well, & if there's any Prankster Trap Setters out there, none are comin to mind... I sure haven't ever seen any that I remember. I know there's Prankster Taunters though.

 

Oh yes, Make me overcentralize my team around hazards even more. Because why not.

 

Well your opponent also has to make sacrifices. Galvantula, for example, usually just sets up sticky web and dies, meaning the opponent gets one less pokemon to use for the rest of the match.
So yes, you have to make adjustments to win the battle, but it's not like they get away with it without losing anything themselves.

I'm all for the "hazard removing part to everything that has a spinning animation" thing though. It would make compensating much easier to do.

 

There is a lot of stuff that doesn't just die after setting up hazards. It's true that sticky web users die quickly, but Stealth rock users don't. For example, Skarmory or Ferrothorn are very hard to dislodge if used properly.

Thats the thing that annoys me. You can easily fit one of these in the team as a wall, without sacrificing a slot for the Hazards. Meanwhile, you're forced into a far lower number of defoggers/rapid spinners. I know, some of them are pretty good. But I feel like a moveslot used for a hazard is worth so much more than on hazard removal, which you only take because you HAVE TO.

Not to mention the removers also take damage/statuses, can get predicted into an situation where you can't afford to remove the hazard, or even spin blocked. Meanwhile, you can nobrain setup a sticky web/stealthrock turn 1, survive with sash, explode/get a thunder off, or just switch. I am aware magic bounce exists, but it's not a great option. That excludes the fact every SINGLE magic bouncer save mega sableye is weak to galvantula in some way. You can even carry energy ball to deal with mega diancie once that rolls around.

 

Ok, maybe the PPs of SR & Sticky Web could be reduced to 5. Then the Pressure Ability could have more reason to exist. That better?

I really doubt SR & Sticky Web are goin anywhere anytime soon, when a REAL Tauros Pie, 1-Hit KO Moves, have never been rightfully deleted or retconed into non-1-Hit KO Moves of some kind.

Maybe ya could blunt Sticky Web's power on your team also by having a Defiant Physical Sweeper with Priority (Bisharp comes to mind) or a bulky sweeper (Like Reuniclus) or other such stuff to have a team that outright can't not die to Sticky Web too. Whether anyone likes it or not, can't just blow off what Traps can do anymore than one could build a team entirely weak to fire & steel then whine when a foe's Heatran murders ya. Is Heatran Tauros Pie cause that person couldn't get away with their team completely weak to Fire & Steel? It's just part of how poke combat works. Have no Fire Attacks on your team then lose to a foe with a Steel/Bug on their team & try to argue that it's unfair that ya can't get away with having no Fire Attacks on your team & get away with that, I dare ya. Where's the line in regards to how 'free' we should be able to be with Team Building?

With that said, if OR/AS added additional ways to fight traps without making traps become completely worthless, I would have no complaints.

My 1 1/2 cents.

 

Your example is far overblown. It's far easier to just put a water or ground type to deal with heatran, which probably fits in to your team regardless, than it is to actually have a dedicated spinner, which you only had to take for their ability to spin.

Meanwhile, your entire game gets thrown off by that one move, which most often has been used in an almost braindead way in the beginning of the match (Hurr durr focus sash stealth rock/sticky web), but it changes the entire way you play the game.

If you're actually affected by it in some way you don't like (which most teams are, because fire types are fairly important), then you have to get your spinner on the field. However, that's not as easy as you think. The opponent meanwhile basically has a free shot at either your spinner or some other dudes on your team. Not to mention due to scarcity of spinners/defoggers, you can easily tell which one it is on the enemy team, basically meaning you can easily switch in a counter to it. Not to mention it breaks sashes and sturdy for essentially free, too!

All this, just due to one move that can't be prevented whatsoever apart from a VERY rare move (Only 3 released pokemon have it, That being Xatu, Espeon, and Absol. All of them are fairly frail to begin with, meaning your opponent might just predict your switch-in, and kill/cripple the thing.)

TL;DR: Hazards do too much for how easy they're to set up, and they're too hard to prevent.

 

It would probably help if Stealth Rock just wasn't tied to a type. It's a cool idea and all, but ultimately the fact that it's Rock type is what makes it really sting.

That being said, I kinda want to see other hazards along the lines of Stealth Rock and Sticky Web. Anyone wanna help me come up with names?