Races MUST affect gameplay in some way... not just look.

Guess what? Tiy's priority is his fans. You aren't the one to decide whether or not he changes his mind.

 

Did ya know that irl, Birds have Hollow Bones & other tricks in them to make them light little buggers for their size? This got me thinking Avians are likely the same even if their 'Wings' are gone, thus Gravity would likely have 10%-20% more trouble 'grabbing' & affecting them. Plus, +Accuracy might get considered Overpowering compared to the other Races & give people the idea that only Avians can be the best Warrior-Type, the way i've seen people be before... I used to play MMO years ago. I figured Less Fall Damage & greater Jump Height would be 'Cool' rather than 'OP'.

Oh, & what if there IS no Accuracy Stat in-game... but there's DEFINITELY Fall Damage & Jump Height. Accuracy might be a Weapon Only Stat.

 

Subtle changes are fine, gaame changing, no.

Take the pre-hardmode Terraria armours for example. Necro had ranged buffs, Shadow had melee, Jungle was for mages, and Molten is for tanking. None of these forced you to use those weapons, or debuffed them, they simply made them more viable.

Now imagine each of those represent a race. Lets say Avians have more ranged damage, are you now forced to be a ranged fighter? No. As long as no negative buffs are given, you can still play your way as any race. So if you pick a race for how it looks, and end up using its buffed play style, hey! You get a small buff. But could you still play any way you want? Yes.

 

I fully agree with this. Though I still think it's best to give Racial Stuff that is 'Class Neutral'.

 

I completely agree on giving races a few minor bonuses. It'd make playing as an Avian different than playing as an Apex, thus adding more playability for me.

 

Well, sure, but theres also a reason big birds don't fly. As surface area (structural strength) increases linearly, mass (well, mass) increases exponentially. Specifically its sqaured. It's kindof the reason all animals are within generally the same size boundaries, when you increase size, bones need to be sooo much stronger to be able to support it, and thats why none of the really large birds can fly, they can't have hollow bones at that mass, because they would snap under their own weight. Speaking from a physics standpoint, hollow bones for Avians wouldn't work. Also, gravity (we know this thanks to Newton) affects all things equally, all things (neglecting wind resistance) fall at the same rate. I could accept higher jump height from hollow bones if they had some form of super lightwight yet exceedingly strong bone material, but all things fall at the same rate without any parachute like apparatus. Also, accuracy, if not already a player based stat, could easily be made one if they wanted, but thats not so important, I made it merely as a possibility. So long as the perks aren't HURDURR you get sooper bow pawerss if youer an avien lol, I'm fine so long as it makes sense. I mentioned it in an earlier post, Apex are supposed to be super intelligent, so they should have something intelligence based in-game. That kind of thing.

 

Ouch... I didn't know all of that before. What the hell is the point of School having taught me stuff like that if it's not needed then, & i've long since forgotten it now when I can use the knowledge now... I concede to your logic. Oops, that's a breach of Internet Protocol, isn't it...? Oh well.

Do my Apex & Human Suggestions at least fly?

 

No.
Just no.
Just look is best
edit: Actually, the important quest idea is cool. Different tutorials and starting areas would be kinda cool :O

 

I'd say the human one is good, I would like to say uncreative, but then again, what is there for the humans to have? Whatever works. And the Apex idea sounds good, maybe add to that an ability to build things more quickly or something. But yeah, the physics of bone structure is actually something I heard about somewhere talking about why there can never be "monsters" like King Kong, the bone structure just stops being able to support the mass at a certain point, and smaller animals can have weaker (hollow) bone structures because of how little mass there is. Its kind of like building a box by taping together sheets of paper. When its a small box, it could work, quite well. But make it a few feet big, and its no longer structurally sound.
Also, your comment about internet protocol reminded me of this

 

since when?
how people react to you isn't really any different regardless of race
npcs will insult the argonians even when you walk by and you are an argonian, same for khajiit
the only time this differs is in the start of the game when getting called up to the chopping block
people don't get excited over skyrim to play as an argonian, or a khajiit(but a small hand full of people may get excited to play as them)
it's selling point is a huge open world to piss about in

well there's multiple reasons to play a different race, to go do things differently then your 1st run through of things
say if you would prefer to be an archer and spell caster hybrid over a warrior tank type

choose different paths to take in the story(if the story allows different choices that actually have an impact on the story in some way)

no it is not, what you suggested is to pick a race/class suited for a specific build type, like an archer for example with stats suited for archery

i proposed something along the lines of just different starter gear, with a slight adjustment of hp and battery power: i don't want stats in the game like "blunt attack" "slash attack" "bow capability" or whatever

all races should be able to use whatever weapon/gear they chose, with no perks or stats effecting it
i don't want to upgrade my pistol upgrade tree to be better with them, or have different races get a bonus to pistols or whatever

keep everything even for all races cept for maybe just hp and battery power, and that's only to set a slight difference between races but makes no overall impact on them

do not insist i am complaining when im stating my opinion on the matter, i did read your posts

all those perks, which are largely for combat such as better proficiency for bows, daggers, swords, axes and such-yet the combat is horrid..what's the point in that?
I'll agree that the perks system is pretty cool, but what's the point of upgrading it when it's combat needs serious work from the ground up

i did read your post, im not exactly keen on having a perk system for starbound: either way i wouldn't mind it much, but i prefer the game did not have it. just my opinion

ok sure they have keen eyes, but there is no need to give them special eye abilities like better criticals when hitting weak points
the difference is the aesthetics and back story, pick what appeals to you: there shouldn't be a bonus that one race get's, yet is unappealing to a player
keep all races equal

an example is having a race breath underwater, but all others don't: sure you can try to give other races better bonus' or just keep every thing minimal
like a +2 attack/speed or whatever for all races, but each thing is different of course

i would prefer to keep all racial bonuses out

i disagree, perhaps give them some type of unique starter item maybe, some sort of first aid kit to use a few times

i just want races to be even with each other, i don't want little perks or anything to make one different from one another
i would prefer the difference to each race is what they start with as I've stated before with the different gear and weapons, and i suppose some variety in starter items

here's an example of how i would like it set up with no perks or anything

class: human
gear: civilians clothes
weapons: light pistol, common dagger
items: 2 light healing items (of some sort)
hp: 100
battery: 100

class: avian
gear: traditional avian tribal gear(?)
weapons: short spear, small round shield
items: throwing knives
hp: 110
battery: 90

class: apex
gear: casual apex jumpsuit(?)
weapons: short tonfa, silenced pistol
items: something relating to intelligence somehow(like a high recovery item or shield protector thing that lasts a short time but is a one time use)
hp: 90
battery: 110

the only differences here are their gear they start with, and their hp & battery
why did i change the hp and battery? well it's a small change that makes each of the races slightly different
- humans are balanced in hp and battery

- avians are warriors so they have slightly more health, but less battery because they discovered technology later then most races(idr their lore very well so apologizes for that)

- the apex have slightly more battery then hp since they are highly intelligent

the above is just a quick idea for how they start and what i would prefer over each race getting some bonus to either fire arm damage, or pixel collection, fall damage or whatever. just my 2 cents

i respect your opinion on the matter, but i also have one of my own

 

Your'e still missing my point. The idea is different, but even, that no one race has any advantage over another in any strategy you might choose but that they do offer something different. When I said what's the point of choosing a new character, I was talking about starbound. If, say like you want, no gameplay differences at all, then the character is simply which one you think looks cooler. If this is all I get from my character, then there's no reason to choose any of the others. Starting a game as a new race gives you nothing new. Because I like tiy's artstyle, I want to play as every class, but if looks are the only difference, it will literally be no different than playing something like assassin's creed or something a second time, wearing a different colored outfit. If races don't have something different each, that lasts through the game, then whenever you try to start a new game, you'll get bored, and go back to your old character, because there's still the infinite universe to explore. I understand the desire to not make someone have to choose between the way you want to play and the way you want to look, but it all comes down to how well you design the "perks." If you design them right, then they give a special, unique function to each character. Think, SSB. Each character has completely different movesets, but they're very very close to completely balanced. In starbound, they don't have to be radical differences, but small little things each race has, that are balanced among the races, and don't affect what "class" you want to be. It's not hard to do that. Most games don't, because they focus on different classes, while this game does not. A game has the capability to do anything you want it to, and just because every other game does perks one way does not mean starbound has to follow suit. The devs have the capability, I have no doubt they could do it well, in a way that won't make pissy people like you complain, and that would give people who want to play as different races, and actually have something unique to each of their characters, be able to do so.
Also, Skyrim. Is. A. MIdeival. RPG. Its entirely and completely about magic, swords, axes, bows and arrows, and the like. They focus most of their effort on the classes/races. Its not all the game has to offer, but without that, it wouldn't be the massive franchise it is today. You say hype, but hype speaks only for sales, not the 200+ hours many people log into the game. People like the game, just because you don't prefer it, doesn't mean that every idea in the game is awful. Yes, it need a better combat system in my opinion, and in many other people's, but there are people who are on the other side of that arguement and say its fine because of perks. It's what they play the game for. If it had a massively awesome combat system and 3rd person over the shoulder design, I would likely log over a thousand hours in the game, because it would be in my opinion at that point the pinnacle of what 3D mideival RPGs are supposed to be. It has depth, but in a different area. It makes up for it's lack of combat system with its class and perks system. That is its selling point. Since it was created. well I suppose originally the selling point was 3D rp, but as soon as 3D became standard, we can't really call that a selling point, can we? But with that, I would very much like that to be the last point on skyrim. This is not the skyrim forums, it is most decidedly the starbound forums. Let's please keep the subject on starbound, and not compare it to skyrim's class system, as I tried my hardest to make it clear that it should be (and is) entirely different.
The problem with starting sets is that they don't last, I'm still left with no valid reason to play a new game as a new class.

 

k.. I agree with ya that having several different races that all do the same thing can hurt the re-playability for some people. I mean it is totally true that in those cases that just the change of appearance is not enough for them to "Switch-Character". But I honestly think they should just all be the same because the game is about what you do with your character through these worlds. The fact that you could make them into anything given you have the right stuff (For example Terraria.. want to be an archer.. Equip the bow.. and maybe a helmet that helps.. and done). Race of your character is just the appearance, like when you chose what hair you wanted or style. And I can tell you (in Terraria at least) I had multiple characters, though there was no bonuses at all between the different types, and that doesn't have even half the re-playability factor as a game like this will.

You could possibly start a new character, and have a different experience in just the worlds that are generated. You can get different loot, or even move to different planets then ya did on your first time through. The point being that there are many different reasons for re-playability.. the lack of "Stat" difference in classes are a very small reason to think it will not be repayable. Maybe you want to start-over with a friend, or maybe you messed something up to a point where you don't think you want to continue. There are lots, and lots of reasons to play the whole thing over again.

True, they do have the capability, but in the end of the day they have to make decisions on what would be right to fit their concept of what they want the game to be and how they want all the pieces to work together. If you want everyone to be even at the start it is not a bad idea, just the way that they (or what they consider the most people) will want to do in their game. They can change this later if the practice doesn't fit the concept. But on the unique part.. They have custom weapons, worlds, appearance and lots and lots of other stuff. I mean you can make a unique/customized character so much already is it really that important that you get bonus for race also?

Edit: I will be devils advocate for a min.. as I haven't heard anyone really mention this (if I just missed it sorry). If they did choose to add bonus to races... I don't feel that it would dictate how you "Have to" play unless either they were extremely over powered, or you must play by the numbers. Lets say a +25% to shotguns.. Just because you have that doesn't mean you have to use a shotgun. I mean sure you get a bonus, but I mean play how you want to play.. it doesn't matter if you have the "Best Stuff" I mean if that is the point then I can tell you whats going to happen. Your going to play.. your going to get the best stuff because you have all the numbers stacked up right.. and then your going to get bored and quit. I have seen it tons of times, and it just keeps repeating itself.

 

Why is it so important? If there are any unique abilities, one will always be better than the rest, even if it isn't an obvious choice; no race should feel like the 'best' pick. The freedom to choose what you want to do, just because that's what you want to do, is one of the many strengths of Starbound in my opinion.

 

It's easy for races to have influence on quests,you only need to put racist space pirates that only attack specific races.Obviously,procedurally generated so you could get the pirate that hates avians as well as the bounty hunter who likes apex.

 

If no gameplay differences are set up in the game, it'll certainly be possible with mods. Just keep in mind the game is fun and neutral. Things that are not involving core or system modifications will certainly be done in mods. This is not an essential part of the game... At all. It divides the community. BUT it can be very fun to have a stronger apex in the team to strike hard, the fighting skills of an avian and the research and adaptation abilities of a human.

So, implementing differences or not between races can be an hard choice for the dev team and I think this reflexion happened when they introduced races.

Just a simple reflexion. APEX are said to be physically superiors to humans, but they are trading this evolution against an intellectual evolution. That means, they are not yet up to match human brains and so they shouldn't be said to have a bonus in research.

Humans survive because of their superior intellectual abilities > Research speed & cost bonus
Avians survive because of their martial prowess > Increased amount of attacks per seconds and parry bonus
Apex survive because of their physical superiority > Increased contact damages and health points

 

To be honest, that's racist.

 

http://community.playstarbound.com/index.php?threads/an-anti-suggestion.4504/

Thats my opinion. NO TO RACIAL BONUSES! If you want different classes, what we have gear for? Also this suggestion has already been discussed many times.

 

Hey, hey hey! That's racist twice! I may be a pirate, but i am not... not fond of any other race. No no!

 

Actually, a bit of time ago, i made an suggestion in that races wouldnt have perks, but they would have different gear pieces and some example.
There would be Race Specific gear (Only for some races) and Normal Gear (For all races)

And, even then, other races would be able to obtain gear of other races, but they would have to buy it, for maybe, like X.5 the money than the normal race? Or it would drop at a rarer rate?

Also Tiy stated that they wanted races to be purely aethestical. So those who speak about faith, you re the ones who dont have faith on the devs and their ability to decide not having racials is better!

Example: Avians have Mechanical Wings, Humans have Jetpacks.

 

Depends if you play RP or not.

In RP, Avians are religious warriors, wearing artificial wings and spartan clothes. Racial clothes should be vanity items for those who wants to play it this way

 

Indeed,racist pirates are different from pirates.

 

Since many people are crying about the stats possibility, how about we talk quests? While stats seem most natural to me, seeing as natural differences in the races' bodies/minds, what if there was an entire set of quests (A large set of quests) where the character investigated the end of his home world. This could be about 5 or so hours of game that is totally unique to each race, and in the end gives you access to a collection of items unique to your race. Or even possibly gives you a new ability. (Keep in mind the following are only examples) maybe the avian race rediscovers how to fly and no longer needs jet packs, or the apex learns to fight without weapons, or the humans discover some science that leads to a super cool weapon. The only requirement I would have here, is that if it's going to be an item, that it is something that has abilities that you wouldn't get from the procedurally generated stuff. Also, make sure it's not just a single item, so that a player can choose between guns, knives, swords, or what have you, just so no player feels like there's nothing of the reward that they would use.

 

Stop comparing Starbound to Skyrim, they are 2 completely different games, and the selling point of skyrim aren't the races/classes/whatever and especially not magic, thats one of the reasons I hate it as a sequel to TES, its the ridiculously huge world and the tons of quests and the awesome sights, because everything else sucks quite bad tbh.

Races shouldn't affect gameplay at all, because even if there aren't any penalties to using anything, if there is a buff to something, it will make that the recomended playstyle of the race, its not forcing you but its very strongly sugesting it to you to the point that it actually seems like you are defuffed by not using the weapons your race is good at.

As I said before, the fact that races have different aesthetics and backstories is enough, if id does have to affect anything it would be the gear that they can craft and they starting equippent.

Im also prety sure apex didn't trade their intelligence for strenght, they are DEvolved physicaly but gain intelligence in the process, so their leaders are basically realy intelligent chimpances.

And to the guy that said we are whiners for saying taht there shouldn't be any gameplay differences, you are the one whining, you are whining because you think that there should be gameplay differences when the devs stated that there won't be.

And I'm also opposed to small and neutral differences like jumping height, accuracy or whaterbreathing, because no matter how the game is going to be, one will be better than the rest making most people chose the best one.

(I'm sorry for not naming or quoting you guys, but its seriously too much trouble)

Ninja'd: Aldurna, unique quests as long as they aren't like:"hurrdurr naw u du moar shutgun domage omg lololol" Are okay imo as long as they are balanced for most playstyles, aren't all up in yo'face and aren't ridiculously easy.