Progress on Ships!

You seem to be not reading my whole post or misconstruing it, view some of my other posts as well on here. I may well know it better then you, as I make race mods so knowing these things come in handy. I actually love the Florans; also the fluff is simply there head "adornments". The term you're probably looking for is lore and culture. It's a simple matter of good design, logic, and scientific knowledge. backwards engineering is not frankensteining ships, it's taking technology apart piece by piece to learn how it works to build your own technologies based on the re'd tech. Multiple separate planetary technologies from different reaches of the universe would never be compatible to just throw together like a bunch of inbred rednecks would try. Also, like I said the least they could do is use proper color pallets; a simple recolor would make it actually visually appealing, still completely illogical and scientifically unsound and impossible, but at least it would look good then.

 

Awesome! Looking forward to the release of these great ship updates!
I like how the Floran ship is a hodgepodge of scavenged technology.

 

<-------- only one who likes the color scheme of the Floran ship? (aside from the avian ship sticking out like a sore thumb, that is)

As for the layout of the ship, its not perfectly symmetrical.......but I like that. I like that there's a bit of chaos in the layout, without being toooo crazy. It still looks functional enough and easy to get around in.


I think the Hylotl ship would be awesome how it is, but I want back the paper walls and lanterns that gave it that asian theme. And maybe theme the layout and design on water creatures like fish or sharks, without putting a giant fish eye on the ship.


Looking forward to getting a peek at the other races' ships. Still hoping for a giant flying pyramid for Avian and an epic flying castle for Glitch.

I guess I'm just hoping that each races' ships don't all have the same layout. Would be cool to see an actual variation in their final look and overall design.

 

Yay more aesthetics.

 

Floran clearly are not into science, or logic. It just wouldn't match the overall theme of them as scavengers if their ships were technical marvels made by themselves. Their general knowledge of tech is just lacking. A salad bowl of cobbled parts and trophies fits the tribal theme better than a melting pot.

 

But...Floran don't like salads. Only Meat 'n Marrow.

 

Thenks. I'm pretty new to the game, and I've never tried that.

 

First, your not much of a reader either are you? I never said anything about them inventing their own ships tech and certainly never said anything about them making tech marvels. But what you're saying absolutely would never work, litterally it would be more then a million to one chance that the techs of 3 different seperate galactic cultures would just "plug and play" together and be functional in even a small way, and they are specifically said in lore to reverse engineer not to just throw parts together. They may not be tech or science savvy, but they would still have to understand the machines enough to take them apart, learn from them, convert them to all work together which requires a complete understanding of how the machines work, and then put it all together. They also have immense pride and don't really care for other species much. Which would mean they would absolutely make them look like their own, rather then allow their ships to look like it was another species they would want to impose their own culture and desires onto it. They would make it look like the home teams ship, to represent the pride in their race. It's like when a conquering king takes a castle, they don't leave it looking like the enemies fortress. They tear down the banners, remove the symbols and monuments, paint over the previous nations colors, ect. They make it represent themselves. As a tribal culture they would, at the very least, paint a new base coat and add tribal markings (I would get rid of the actual plant matter and make it like tribal floral markings, but that's just me; and I should say I will be receiving my VC&D in Illust degree next semester, so I know a thing or two about good design). The trophies are the best part of the design so far, as those do represent a more primal tribal group and a very common thing to do to ones enemies to send a warning. Now it's just a matter of fitting the rest of the ships design into that theme. As I have said several times, even just a recolor would help pull this off, though the fact is the avian temple part is an avian monument and represents another species culture and no primal aggressive tribal society would keep such an aspect. But just one step in the right direction (recoloring) would make all the world of difference. It's obvious at least 50% of the posters agree the design needs to be reworked in some way or another. In the design world, that's 50% more negative response then you ever want from your target audience.

 

Ahh. I'd actually managed to forget about the Steam page. I pay so much attention to the blog, lol. I can see that they are very, ah... Lacking on the Steam page, to put it nicely, I suppose. That's a real shame, honestly. Hopefully it's an oversight, rather than a purposeful attempt to lure people in without giving them the full story. 'Cause that would lower my respect for them a good bit... Regardless, hopefully they change the Steam page soon.

 

The only thing obvious is that your statistics are made up.

First, you said reverse engineer, then described it as in figuring out how tech works and then making it anew. But in game it amounts to different pieces of ship rigged together and made to work. In the end the underlying message of the design must be clear.

Floran simply do not have the know how to make their own ships from scratch, and judging from the progression, they do not gain this know how. This must be reflected in the progression, and as a player and artist, I get that more with this design than your description. I don't see the ship design of the Floran as pride so much as a means to the end of combat.

Wasting time and effort with concerns of a pretty ship is a task for Hylotl! They are not some commodore crowing for a nation's glory (the home team, as you put it). Floran want the hunt, in particular, the Floran in the story seeks personal glory, the challenge of tougher prey. What tribal group does an outcast belong to?

I think you are looking for a sense of technological organization that simply clashes too much with the primitive lore.

 

I'm not sure if you read my post fully or maybe you just misunderstood, because most of that was not what I said/meant. Reverse engineering is taking something apart to learn how it works, to then apply it to your own means. I never once said anything about them making there own ships, they reverse engineer other species tech to learn how it works then incorporate the learned knowledge in building, or reconstructing, a ship. Reverse engineering is actually specifically the act of testing, experimenting and taking something apart to learn how it works though, and has nothing to do with rebuilding it or reusing the specific device that was taken apart.(Lit. Def.: "Reverse Engineering - Reverse engineering is the process of discovering the technological principles of a device, object, or system through analysis of its structure, function, and operation.") It seems like you didn't fully understand the term yourself. If they don't gain the know how, then they could never hope to do anything with the parts, they most likely wouldn't even be able to use them what so ever without knowing how it works. Unless of course they were taught by another race or learned from observation, which obviously would be difficult as they are "hyper-aggressive". You are right on the not being part of their tribal group anymore, but that doesn't change the culture and how one acts. As well the ships weren't constructed (before you misconstrue, this in no way means designed and built their own) by the singular exiled Floran, but instead was most likely stolen or given to them to facilitate an exile. I also don't see how you can say anything about the still non-existent game progression. War like cultures don't paint their ships, armor, faces, ect to be pretty, they paint and decorate them to strike fear into their enemies, to portray their character, or for other tactical advantages. Take military planes for examples, they are painted to strike fear, distinguish their ship as their's to build reputation, and sometimes camouflage(though this is more reserved for stealth and land vehicles). It's cool your an artist, but that is absolutely different then being a designer. Two totally different things. Most artist don't understand much about design, as they do not have to worry about the same things since they are simply creating a representation of their own feelings, wants, emotions, and so on. Design is the process of properly putting together both a feasible, attractive, and purposeful plan, parameters, and restrictions to create a project that successfully completes a set of goals as to represent to a specific focus or ideal. I have gone to school for several year for it and will be recieving my degree next semester with an above 3.0 gpa. I do understand where you are coming from, but I most certainly know what I'm talking about. Since I feel you may be the type of person to claim me as a liar, you are more then welcome to pm me and I will send you my professional portfolio as proof. You may not understand fully the view in which I see things, but it is all based on the many rules, principles, and elements of good design. In this case not only a successful, aesthetically pleasing visual design but also a logical and reasonable and sound theory of how such a primitive race could achieve space travel; not even FTL travel but just the basics so they could at least understand enough to rebuild and function the ship in a realistic manner to the culture type they portray. Anything less would make the design completely unsound and not possible in the realm of what is realistic to the game; we still must hold some sort of sound sense of realism even in a futuristic fantasy game. Hopefully this helps clear up your misunderstandings and conceptions of my post, as you didn't understand much of what I was saying. These are the types of responses that help improve the game, iron out the flaws and build a design that successfully engages the focus group (in this case the players, all of them not just some) and will build a strong and stable foundation for an even greater game. I am referring to both our responses as well, they are both equally important as all sides and views must be considered in good design. It's been an engaging conversation, and the designers can definitely get some great insight from reading through ours and many other conversations and posts in this topic.

 

So, I don't know if anyone has posted anything about Ship-to-Ship combat, but I think that would be pretty sweet. Especially with those large turrets on top.

 

Status on the character wipe update?

 

No, Now you're just doing it on purpose. You are not having a conversation so much as a filibuster, intentionally padding your posts. So I'm not at all convinced you have the right idea, nor am I interested in talking to you further.

If you cannot provide a clear explanation than you can at least draw a concept of one.

 

For starters, starting any argument off with an ad hominem is a good way to ensure people take whatever you say with a grain of salt. Seconds into this and your demeanor was already off-putting and pedantic.

Creating a wall of text does not a convincing argument make. You may be getting a VC&D in Illust, but you seem to be under the impression that this is making you an unchallenged authority on the subject of design, but I assure you, you aren't the first person receiving that degree.

In addition, you seem to be using a lot of generalities and pulling a lot of facts out of thin air.

No qualifiers. If you're going to make something passable in an argument, you need qualifiers. To say that NO primal aggressive tribal society would adapt a foreign culture in any way shape or form would be denying that cultural transfer does exist in any manner for aggressive tribals...which, sorry, just isn't the case. Even aggressive tribes have their allies, and cultural transfer (obviously) happens frequently among cultures friendly to each other. You mention the Florans aren't fond of other races, but you seem to be forgetting their affinity for the Glitch?

Yes, we get it, design degree, makes you an authority on the subject although you haven't even received it yet, we're very well AWARE of this. You squeezed it in whenever applicable. However...

I fail to see where you're getting those numbers. 50% is a hefty amount to guess on, especially when several posters make ambiguous statements and rest on the fence, while others are making irrelevant posts about the Hylotl ship, and some people are just making passing, almost worthless, evaluations on it.


The matter doesn't affect me, really. You could be right on the recolor, or you could be wrong, either way, I'll take the ship how I get it. But in terms of argument, you really need to make it less personal and a bit more open to concession and an actually decent elaboration on your meaning to people if they don't quite understand.
A.) It makes people more likely to see where you're coming from and concede or agree upon further reflection.
and B.) It makes you not come across as a jerk.

 

Floran eatsss popcorn and watchesss funny looking creatures argue with wall sssscriblesss. =P

 

Still a nice flying Amish barn would be better for me. Throw in some seven eyed cows and a butter churner and I would be cruising the cosmos in joy.

 

Aww yiss, only a few questions remain on my part: will there be new interior room textures for the different parts of the ship, or will they stay like that? My other query is about the avian parts on the ship, im confused as to what that is about

 

Did you read my post? (serious question, not trying to be mean or anything) It's truly not meant to argue in any way, but to explain in more detail what you mistook, that's all. I never meant (nor realized) it to come off in such a manner, and I apologize if you took it that way. Honestly I have no intent of convincing you of anything, but more so intent of you understanding my previous post better is all. I don't understand why anyone would filibuster a simple post meant as advice in the first place or how it comes off in such a way to you. How would one stall for time on a forum post anyways and for what purpose? After all, the first posts information was never meant for you in the first place but as a view point from one designer to another; that is to the dev team. If you had no interest in talking to me about my opinion then why try and disapprove my post the first place? Seems pointless to me, it's like hearing a random conversation of advice to someone you don't know in a public place, and just walking up and telling them they are wrong then not expecting an explanation of why they said those things. Anyways, I hope you have a great night.

In no way am I an express authority of any matter, just a schooled designer and professional giving his opinion. The only reason I even mentioned that I was was because it gives a sense of where my opinions came from and that they aren't just coming from nowhere. You are however acting as if I said it over and over,when in reality I said it only once and it's because in my world credentials are important to some people in whether or not they actually take you seriously or not. The reading part may have been phrased better on further review as I don't really know you guys so your probably used to a different environment then I am and I apologize for that. Most people I c&c with are friends, co-workers and class mates and we tend to make such types of remarks to each other and I didn't think to filter myself. You are correct on cultural transfers, I was quite trying to mean it on a largeer scale like that; more so just about things such as cultural symbols and national markings. Which is what I see the avian temple adorned by the crystal as, though I wouldn't see any reason they would tear down land structures of the sort but placing it on the ship doesn't seem like something that would happen. Now I don't really play avian, but from what I understand it's part of the Avian temples in homage to Kluex and therefor an Avian religious symbol. And your right I totally spaced about the Glitch, though I always kinda viewed the relationship as more an admiration for an animated object then them actually seeing them as a species of living beings. The 50% was basically an estimated guess from reading pretty much everyone's responses on here from the day they opened this thread, more so based on it was a pretty even back a fourth on the opinions about the Floran ship. I by no means counted but it's most likely a pretty close guesstimate. It was never meant to be looked at as a statistical exact, after all this is simply beta feedback for a game in early development. Again though I will say this was never meant as a debate, but a response to help explain where I'm coming from to someone trying to discredit my opinion of advice to the dev team based on his misunderstanding of my initial post. None of it was personal at all, I just thought it would be better to facilitate an opinion based on what I was actually saying and not how it was misconstrued/misinterpreted.

 

The420urchin, splitting that into paragraphs would make it significantly more readable. I normally read everything when I'm going to chime in on a topic, but your huge wall of texts are just painful.

It's great that you have a design degree (or will have), but constantly demanding that people should bow down to your supposedly superior wisdom will do nothing but piss people off. Along with scaring away those who share your opinion. You are really doing more damage than you are helping out at this point.

Personally I do not like the later Tiers of the Floran ships, with it getting worse as it progresses. I don't think the silhouette is particularly interesting. The reuse of graphic assets is a bit too obvious, especially when it comes to big details such as the engines and turrets. The ship looks more like overlaying jigsaw puzzle pieces than the design of a scavenger. If we are to believe that all this is scavenged then give us the duct tape, rust and rivets (like Tier 0). Finally, like a lot of people have said before, the color palette is a bit dull, and the yellow Avian parts stick out in a bad way. IMO.

I do like the Tier 1 however, it tells a story, and thanks to the skulls and plants (which make up a larger part of the overall design) it has a clear Floran identity. The plants don't really make sense, but hey, it's "space-plants", and they still look cool.

PS. I am an artist in the game industry. It doesn't mean that I possess the scrying ball of objective truth however, and I can still only truly state my own opinion, and at best take educated guesses at what other groups might think.