(Poll) Do you like the new hotbar?

I thought the blue/red weapon thing in the middle's purpose was pretty obvious, i don't think either hotbars are absolutely perfect, they have their pros and cons and i think rather than the idea of having options for both, the devs should think hard about making a hotbar that allows for the best of both worlds before the release of 1.0, as 1.0 will set the standard for the game and will be reviewed by critics, something as simple and important as the hotbar needs to be far less controversial than this new one and to a lesser extent, the old one.

 

This here is part of why some of us don't like the new hotbar in its current iteration, it takes noticeably longer to set up the bar in a way to cover the same bases one could set the old bar up for. And the other big problem with having to hit X to access the other hotbar is that until you hit X you have no way to activate those slots, compared to most other games that have multiple hot bars where instead of being gated between a button press to even select from them one can just hold down a key to use them or even rebind them to any other key one wants. Shift+# is also lot easier to deal with than X than # to select when you want access to multiple hotbars in a hurry without loosing immediate access to all of your hotbar set ups. For me personally, I now only barely use 6 slots instead of all 11/12 of the old(depending on how one viewed the L/R slot) because there are a number of items that I used with the old bar that are now too much of a hassle to bother using with the new bar.

Here are some other reasons you might want to consider, only half of your hotbar slots are active at any time, a number of situationally useful items that could go into the slots that some would stretch for are not going to be used as often due to now being really inconvenient to use, having two items share the same hotbar key messes with some people due to muscle memory and to counter that they start loosing more hotbar space, the hotbar swapping is likely to confuse or disappoint new players that don't check the controls due to most games standard hobar size of 10 or the fact they accidentally hit X and end up having no idea why their hotbar is now empty in a critical situation.

Also simple is not a bad thing, the old bar was simple and easy for anyone to pick up and use on a basic level and it fit with a sandbox style of game and it had a ton of flexibility for advanced users, while this new hotbar is also simple it gave up most of the flexibility and power of the old bar to make dual wielding easier and doesn't fit a sandbox game very well, it feels much more appropriate for a Metroidvania style of game.

 

With new hotbar you have a shattered, patchy UI without drag&drop options, you see just half of your toolbar, and you can easily mishit a button in critical situation, as the same key is assigned to 2 different items. You also end up with less inventory space. It's a step backwards and a chore.

Old toolbar was intuitive and it didn't cause even 1/10 controversy that surrounds the new one.

 

Ha. It was many things, but it was definitely not intuitive.

 

You had bar whole bar on display, could add/change an item by a simple drag&drop with 10 slots, each for every number on keyboard. That's very intuitive.

 

Yet, there was no way you could easily choose what to hold in the right hand, is there? I mean, having to hold Shift, every time I want to use right hand? That's anything but intuitive.

 

What's the point on holding it in right instead of left? It might be a problem for 1 in a 100 users. All the most important functions worked perfectly.

 

You mean being able to choose what to hold in both hands with ease is not an important function? These are strange priorities right there.

 

You could hold things in the off-hand with ease. You just had to put your off-hand item into your right hand.

How many actual combinations of different 1-handed items are you using regularly? Gun and gun, sword and sword? More than one gun and gun, more than one sword and sword? With the old hotbar you could have a gun and a sword in the main slots, and combine them with anything else on the hotbar, without ever using Shift (would you believe I hardly ever used it?), just by switching hands and selecting a different item on the hotbar. Only times I ever used Shift was to quickly select something unusual, like a grapple, for the right hand, while the left kept switching between guns, swords, and support items. And going back was as easy as hitting Z again.

And it all occupied just five slots of the actual hotbar, which is also a thing you detractors often overlook - the old hotbar gave you seven items within easy reach where the new one only gives six, even if all of them were 2-handed. With 1-handed items, you had more 2-item pairs at your fingertips (1-6 numbers, Z and X) than the entire rest of the new hotbar can hold, twice over.

 

That's assuming you always want the same offhand item.
My tool bar however is currently setup with Hammer(which I'm experimenting with), flashlight+healing item(because when I heal I'm often retreating from battle and it's often pitch dark) and finally dual dagger.

If I only ever used but one offhand item, this would be fine. But both of my dual slots actually include totally different item pairs. In the new bar, this mean a single keypress to get the exact combo I wanted to equip. In the old bar it would undoubtly mean using shift+press whenever I wanted one or the exact pair in my ends.

The old bar might have offered flexibility, but not that kind of ease of use. I don't mind a couple second more of setting stuff in the hotbar itself over saving keypress in the middle of battle.
I can understand why the change to the new bar and that's why I do hope for a 1.0 update or toggle setting for old bar users.
But try to understand that for some people.... yes the new bar IS that easier to use. I'm not giving examples like these to "convert" you, I just want to say "no, the old one wasn't a fit for me personally when I compare it with my ease using the new one".

Which is the frustrating part. I tell people I understand why they tell me THEY found the old one fit their playstyle better. Hence my hope for a toggle setting or something of the like in the future.

But I'd like them to understand to that, no, I am not deluded in feeling the new bar is more comfortable for ME. Because it is. And from many proponents of the old bar it's like their difficulties with the new bar make it such that ANYONE who having difficulties with the old yet any sort of ease using the new bar is akin to an unfathomable prospect.

I've told someone I did prefer the new bar only to be replied "What I can't believe is how you can NOT find the old bar easier to use" even after I went out to explain this. Some of us, perhaps not the majority by any stretch but we still are there, DO have a easier time with the new bar and being told "it's impossible you can find the new bar eaiser to use than the old" is just as frustrating to us than everyone who just go "you only need to get used to new bar" at proponent of the old bar.

The annoyance this can cause to be told that is exactly why I favor a toggle setting in the future because acting otherwise is just invalidating how someone actually feel using the old bar when they say they can't get used to the new. But at the same time, me explaining that yes I have a easier time playing with the new bar than I had with the old being met with disbelief and "you should have just learned the old bar" when I did in the end and still found it as cumbersome as old bar proponent feel the new bar is can be just as invalidating as a player.

There ARE people for whom the new bar DID make it easier to play in their preferred way. You might not understand WHY they can find it so, but it doesn't change that they FEEL it is an improvement.

I'm all in favor of a toggle setting, I've said it everywhere(like I said... kudos for people who could expertly uses the old offhand swapping hotkeys because that CAN be a lot of flexibility for them... I've just never had that kind of skill nor prefered that sort of play style). But please don't try to "convert" me to the old bar I have gone at lenght to explaining the parts that didn't work for me, like you feel others are supposedly trying to "convert" you folks to the new bar.

 

Wow... Still a lot of discussion going on...

To be expected though.

The simple parts of both hotbars are about the same level of simple and ease of use. At least for myself.

Old bar: I didn't ever use the advanced part of it or the swap hands part of it. I did mess around with swap hands in the beginning to try out, but didn't really stick. The swap hands thing is an intermediate feature of it. The shift thingy being the advanced part.

The intuitive part about the old bar for me was the L/R slot and being able to use the mouse wheel or numbers to select a pair with R, while having a default pair; L having an item. What made it Intuitive is something that at the moment the new bar lacks. Which is when switching between the MM & its' features and equiped slots. It was a simple button press and you would be back to the weapon or equipment of choice. It is again, as I mentioned before the only feature I miss from this old bar.

The other feature, advanced one, would not be missed by me for obvious reasons that it saw no usage while I played with the old bar. Inventory in hotbar is not missed either, as that doesn't really bother me.

New bar: It is intuitive in a different way, in the fact setting up individual pairs across the bar. Ease of use in a way, but readibly apparent at a glance. Sure the slots have been compacted to 2 separate bars. That is similar to swap hands or switching while not the same. It is just different. It is like setting up pair in specific slots, as someone mentioned above and then switch bar between them makes it similar to the mouse wheel scroll with the R of the old one. The difference is that it works with static pairs instead of variable pairs.

So that means it roughly has that similar function of the old one in a different way, and reason I can adjust so well to it. Setting up things is more tedious though.
There is no advanced features on this one far as I know. Nothing readibly apparent. Then again those features even in the old bar were not easily noticeable. Granted as well the swap feature is not there, but there is an empty hands button.

The bar is just links and not inventory, which again, is fine by me; I don't mind. Now if it was easier to setup would make this bar a little better, like using ctrl/shift + # in inventory to place item into L/R of corresponding number slot of the hotbar. That would make that process a little easier, or well to some extent less tedious with dragging all over the place for setup; and resetup when needed.

This bar doesn't have an easy way to switch using MM & features back N forth to equip slots. Even if it was just going to the #1 slot, that would be fine. Unfortunately that is so far the only thing for me that makes the old bar better. If it had this it would be equally as good as the last one, for me.
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I can understand why each party, and others have qualms with either or; if not specific one does over the other. Each has their pros & cons.

So far I have easily gotten use to the new bar minus the one thing I have qualm with. the MM switching thing I mentioned. Other than that the new & old bar are just as easy to use as each other. There is just a slight difference in use; on the basic level that is. So I am not talking about advanced features here, and referring to trial and error eyeballing each of first impressions. So yes I am one to say the new bar still needs a bit of work, or more functionality to it. Using equipment is easy with it, using the MM with it is clumsy, or not really all that ease of use; it is just there. I have quite a chunk of experience with the old over the new, but still have enough of the new to understand it for the most part; at least in the current iteration that it has at the moment.

Still Neutral on the change.

 

I wouldn't dream of being able to convert any of the players to the virtues of the old hotbar, for a variety of reasons not least of which is that I don't have any business telling you which way to play you should prefer.

However I must say my position with utmost force, as the ones who are trying to convert me, and others like me, to the playstyle and hotbar design they think to be superior, are the game's friggin' developers. I can't not fight that back with all the force I can bring to bear, because compared to the say they have in the game's design I am but insignificant, and my view - and as such my whole enjoyment of the game, as is the case here - they can easily brush aside and file as collateral damage in their grand design, if I am not able to get at least some momentum behind the notion that what they're doing is a bad idea. :\

 

The hotbar change for me is awful, but I think it's something I can learn to deal with. I think if you really want to play Starbound 1.0, you will just adapt to what the changes. Sure, it might suck to deal with, but you are treating it like this [ Hotbar > Game ].

 

lmao. I wonder how long it took you to type that.

 

Well. That was... mature. In one meaning of the word at least.

The thing is though, I can't. I tried, I really did, but any enjoyment I had out of exploring things in the game, out of the dynamic combat and the overall feel of the game, is simply gone. I would rather fondly remember a game I had to leave behind, rather than suffer through a game that could have been good.

I mean, can you imagine Bethesda inflicting this on Skyrim? Perhaps for many it wouldn't actually kill the game, but I know I would have been frustrated to the point of wanting to drop it by the time I got to the end of the Dragonborn training quest. I would have either dropped it at that point, or tried to play through the game as a barbarian who never touches a single spell or single-handed weapon.

 

Imho this was the worst thing with the old hotbar. Holding shift to use the right hand... I don't think I ever used it a second time.

 

I don't understand what you would use that for. Can someone explain it to me?

 

Many things, really, but primarily as a quick way to override your main off-hand. Because as I said earlier, if you're that into dual-wielding, it's a lot easier to keep two one-handed items in the main slots - but since they're more often than not weapons, it leaves you in a pickle - a much less sour pickle than the new one does - when you need an off-hand non-weapon so you can keep using the rest of the hotbar normally. Thus you can shift-select a grappling hook or a shield, and keep using regular hotkeys for selecting and deselecting weapons, medkits, etc. It's got a niche use, but it's there when you need it.

 

Is it that important to use grappling hook or whatever in the off hand instead of the main hand if you're dual wielding? Isn't your offhand weapon likely to be about as good as your main hand?

Seems like something that would be really easy to plan for. Like put whatever weapon you'd want paired with bandages/grappling hooks/shields in the R slot instead of L.

 

You could use it in the left hand, sure, but then if you're hanging from a ceiling and need a shield, medkit, or a weapon you don't have in either of your two main hands, you're going to have to drop down in order to select them, or shift-select them instead. It's quicker and easier to shift-select the grapple for mobility, allowing yourself to use everything else in your hotbar with impunity.