Actually you're incorrect, you need only let go of the down key. In fact, if you let go of it immediately after pressing the jump key you will go up, not down. Falling through platforms is tied ONLY to the down arrow, you simply need to be airborne. Of course the jump key plays a pivotal role in that, and however it is programmed you certainly don't go up far if at all if you press both keys. This notion of streamers complaining, I don't understand the relevance of a few *special* people's opinions. Does streaming one's opinion give it more importance? With double jump and wall jump, which allows you to use double jump, you can easily avoid the need for platforms. Just don't jump over a pit and waste your double jump. Not to mention ropes, and grappling hooks (which can be dual wielded). There are plenty of ways to avoid using platforms for little more than staircases and decoration. Why fix what isn't broken? You've found something that gives purpose to powerful light items like the light augment, cave detector, and jumping techs, as well as grappling hooks. The danger gives value to these other mechanics. If you could run around in the dark without dying when you fall, we wouldn't use the lights. The jumping techs have other purposes so that argument would be invalid, you get the idea though.
Good to know. The fact that you need to be airborne to descend a platform is interesting, though. IMaybe that is part of what makes it feel so awkward. No, but it is the only actual non-text evidence I have of how others are dealing with platforms. So far it is an issue in every stream I have seen. Which is why I have asked that anyone here who has recordings of their gameplay where navigating platforms (and navigating them in a fight) is done smoothly, please let me have the link so I can see how it should be done. If you need ways to avoid using platforms, would that not imply the mechanic of navigating them is something you want to avoid? I appreciate that there are other tools that can be used, but being able to work around something does not mean the workaround is a fix. Just the act of moving down platforms should not be dangerous! Yes, there should be a danger in falling and those techs do come in handy, but platforms themselves should not be part of the problem you are looking to solve with tech. Again, if it is so intuitive, there have to be examples out there of people doing it well. It has been in the game this way for years and I have had problems with it all that time. Call me all the names you want, make fun of my dexterity if you must, but none of that helps me learn how you are seeing this as such a simple move. I am not saying it can't be done, I am just saying it is not being done as well as it could be.
You know, I wrote a big long post to discuss and argue with you. Then I thought of something better. The suggestion is this: Hold both Jump and Down to engage platform falls. Here is one reason not to. There are ladders that naturally occur in the game, and also player built ones. If you start falling through these, and pass the point of safety you cannot avoid DYING unless you can get away from the ladder or if you have inhuman reaction times. Currently you can initiate a fall, and immediately let go of jump.. reach 6 blocks from the floor where you'll go splat, and then press jump again to double jump. The game is geared for exploration, not combat. So whatever the combat reasons, they take a back seat to fast navigation of planets. The developers are gonna do whatever they are gonna do. While I hope and doubt they will change this, they might. Which will probably anger a lot of people who navigate worlds like I just mentioned. However after everybody complains like you folks have, we'll move on, or at least some of us will. We are human, it is our nature to adapt. edit: from the OP - "Having to hit both down AND jump, over and over, in order to safely go down a platform ladder is a very lame way of descending!" I just realized the OP doesn't realize he can let go of the down key.. wtf?! I no longer understand his suggestion. edit2: HOLD jump and HOLD down - Run through stairs, and fall through platforms. PRESS jump and HOLD down - Fall through platforms until you collide with a non platform block HOLD jump and PRESS down - Fall through one platform, if you let go too fast you will jump back up *remember* Since a video would be no help, without the keyboard. Here is how I do it. I hold down, and then press jump. I then let go of the down key when I want to stop falling through platforms. This key combination allows you to double jump before you hit the ground. I hope this clears up ALL confusion which apparently exists about this.
Hey, I have an idea: all people interested in this superior mechanics, stay here, write, read other's opinions, etc. All other people with inhuman possibilitys and reaction time, Please, GTFractialO & leave it to us, who cares about it, since mechanics proposed by us, as I see from all posts, WILL NOT MESS WITH YOUR CURRENT HABITS. You can still push and let go both buttons at once, but I'm sure, that when this mechanics finally comes to Starbound, huge majority of you Two-Tap-Ninjas will change your habits. And how you exactly do that (As you said, you're already holding jump key)?
We don't. We're just trying to ADD something that many of us think could be more efficient, while not affecting old ways.
This does not work. The "jump back up" is what takes over since you are holding jump. Reverse it, though, with HOLD down and PRESS jump to fall through only one platform, all the problems might be solved since the worst that will happen is you end up crouching on the lower platform.
Two paths to take is how. If you want to stop on after some safe distance (1), or if you want to fall until you'd die (2). Also don't hold jump, there is no need. (1) Hold down, Press jump.. Wait.. Let go of the down key (2) Hold down, Press jump.. Wait longer.. Press jump and let go of the down key. Does that answer your question? I have done that since I first acquired double jump tech. I agree it is a nice suggestion, and it would be a nice way to move down one platform. I think the better option would be to remove the jump from the current configuration of Holding Jump and Pressing Down, that way there would not be any issues using that. Like you said right now, if you don't hold down long enough you will start falling, but you'll jump back up. Where as if you hold it too long you will fall farther than you wanted. That definitely is a problem, and since the double jump would fill the same purpose as what currently happens there is no need for that first platform jump. To switch around the jump key to the instigator of the fall you'd be removing the possibility to safely fall to the bottom of the whatever it is. (assuming there are platforms going til the bottom) Sorry it has taken me so long to truly understand this problem. That jump mechanic on the first platform you fall from should be removed, that would allow for everybody to move about happily. Even if some aren't pressing keys in the order they'd like.
Like all games the controls are slightly different. I think that just when we first started learning games we lacked the key dexterity to correctly navigate our character. Once we learn one type of key dexterity it's hard to learn another hence this issue. I do believe that because of other games such as Terriaria it is difficult for the Starbound community to use platforms. However, I do not support those who say they would rather play Terriaria rather than this game just because of how you navigate platforms. All games have their issues and all people have their preferences. Terriaria, a great game, doesn't have as many options as Starbound has and is limited in its story and characters. The argument here is that you would rather play Terriaria because of one type of object in the game isn't the same. The devs are doing very well given their circumstances and are working on other things. For the time being we can either avoid platforms or daringly climb them down fearing virtual death.
Ahahah, hahah. That's really funny. You complainers still haven't addressed the elephant in the room: average reaction time, which is one-fourth of a second for visual stimuli. That is plenty of time to stop holding the down key. Oh wait! I was wrong the entire time! We're not talking about visual stimuli! We're talking about touch stimuli, which then shaves one-tenth of a second off, giving a 0.15 second reaction time, which leaves just a bit more time for you to stop holding the down key like some suicidal maniac. If you're still struggling with a 2.5 second reaction time, just hold the down key for a fairly small amount of time, and build your platforms closer together. I am still very disappointed that you're having a problem with 2 seconds of safe falling and 2 more seconds of non-fatal falling. Are your platforms really placed in such a way that missing one will cause you to fall a fatal height to the next one, killing you? If so, double up your platforms, maybe even quadrupole it up. In fact, to settle your materialistic minds, here's a fun fact about platforms: they're dirt cheap! You get more than plenty of copper platforms from a singular copper vein's worth of copper. From what I remember, it's 50 copper platforms from one copper bar. 50! That's enough to leave 3 blocks of distance between each platform, with 4 block wide platforms, and descend past the average screen's length. Alright, real life calls me, I might make a follow-up follow-up post.
I have not had serious gameplay issues with Starbound's clunky controls since I first began the beta, years ago. Got used to 'em. They remain aggravating, but it is not a gamebreaking problem. At worst, I take some damage on my way to the penguin tavern because I am in lazy mode, and not paying attention. I still find platforms unnecessarily clunky, so I never build shoddy 'ladders' at all. Staircases look nicer, make more sense in most build contexts (who the hell wants to constantly move by ladder in a permanent dwelling?), and they are less finicky to navigate. Obviously, the awkward key combination for descending platforms is to allow players to crouch on platforms without unintentionally dropping. That would be acceptable if it worked. Releasing space should halt descent. It does not, so safely going down a 'ladder' (ugh) requires unnecessarily involved keyboard-jabbing. (MUH IMMERSION!) It can be dicey whilst evading mobs, too. It is not a matter of difficulty; it is an issue of intuitiveness. Movement in this game should not require any more consideration than it does in, say, Terraria. Each game could learn from the other. Movement is one feature in which Starbound surprisingly lacks.
For few days I have tried to play Starbound your way (like everything-is-OK-don't-change way). I got your point: it WILL cross with double-jump-safefall. But I think that, now it crosses it too. I'm holding jump and repeatedly press down, so to double jump I still need to release jump to press it again. Explain me please how you double-jump using this combo. Also, this combo often made me to jump one or two times before successfully step down. I think both ways need improvements. Moreover, According to this post, use double-jump to jump higher or further, not for safejumps Every person have habits. In my country we say: "habits- human's second nature" We NEED habits. They help us in everyday life. They settle most of NORMAL situations. But when something that we didn't used to happens, they do silly things. That's why I sometimes die on ladders. Yeah, that would be lame I'd play Starbound even if there were no platforms at all I think it would be the best solution, combining it with (I'm sure someone have already posted that idea in this thread, but I couldn't find it) simply choosing to go up (pressing UP, since I can't find it useful anyway), down (since you can't crouch while walking anyway) or straight (default, by not pressing two mentioned before) Stairways - functionality and massive amounts of IMMERSION!
Well I think there must be a break down in communication here, because in no way do you need to repeatedly press down. Second, you release jump after you fall through the first platform at which point you freefall through the rest, gravity does everything for you. Third: "Also, this combo often made me to jump one or two times before successfully step down" I have no idea what this actually means. None, whatsoever. And fourth. You've misunderstood my statement entirely: "According to this post, use double-jump to jump higher or further, not for safejumps" In fact what I was saying was that jumping techs have far more uses while exploring caves than simply avoiding death falls. Light has little purpose in caves other than to see where not to step, and how far the floor is from your feet. As such the argument I used with lights would be invalid to use on jumping techs. Also these:
So I do need to repeat all down-jump combo? I still think it isn't intuitive at all, and I'll still be trying to push forward stairways idea. When I attempt to use this method, before successfully descend, I accidentally ascend few times. So danger is what makes lights, ropes, jumps etc useful items while exploring. Falling damage is important, everybody knows that. This sentence blurred all post. Purposes other than mentioned before (using in case of danger in caves), but mentioned in the picture, which is showing two ways of jumping above the gap in ground. This is what that fragment said. No more, no less. What is shown here?
@Qbi Wan I have trouble understanding a lot of your sentences, so I am just gonna focus on the question. The gif images display exactly what you've brought up to me, executed with no issues. In one image I stop before reaching the bottom, and the other I stop at the bottom but do so without taking damage. Like I said, before animation or video of the process is little help without seeing the keyboard usage. I feel that trying to explain what keys are being pressed when, would come across as unclear as our discourse has been thus far, so I won't bother. If you can't understand what I am trying to communicate to you, I urge you to experiment yourself. Run through every permutation you can think of. We shouldn't be hijacking the thread for things so trivial.
I would just like to thank this thread for helping me gain insight into the Starbound community which, in turn, helped me gain insight into why Starbound is what it is today. I beat the game, I'm done with the game, and the reading comprehension displayed in this thread is abysmal, so let me leave you with one parting fact: How platforms work has been perfected and copied in dozens, if not hundreds, of games prior to Starbound. Starbound does it differently, breaking a norm that has been set for years, for absolutely no good reason. It is not a thing that requires defense, it is simply a thing that should fit the norm. It is not a thing that requires further fleshing out, concise description, and this much back and forth discussion. It is not a thing that has to do with reaction times. It is not a thing that has to do with double jumping. It is a thing that has been done the same way across many games and only now, only here, with Starbound, has it changed. My only reason for mentioning streamers is because even they aren't sure why they're failing at platforms so hard when it's obvious to me. It's not because they're special and we should make games for them, it's because watching a streamer is another form of a user test, something I've done as a job, and these user tests show where systems are failing, and Starbound's platform system is failing. Peace to those who keep playing, peace to the thread hijackers, peace to Starbound. I'm out until the next major content release, if it ever comes.
I made your post 1,000,000% easier to read. You're welcome. Also, I assure you that it made the change for a reason. And it's not to kill people. It's to keep people on edge: make them adapt to a new control scheme (which is, unfortunately, disguised as such: pressing down and being in the air are the only criteria for falling through platforms, not pressing down AND space together) Sometimes you just need to take it at face value (it would be a nightmare to re-structure platforms from the ground up), and find an alternative. If you're yearning for the change so badly, why not use that time to make a mod, instead of wasting it complaining and relying on developers seeing it? Simple as that. Well, that's just my two cents. Also, if you understand how it works (let go of the down key), why not mentally prepare for that moment, instead of relying on old paradigms at the last second? EDIT: I saw this post... Hold down. Then hold up. Then stop holding down. Done.
First of all, congrats on beating the game of Starbound; a game largely about exploration, and building cool shit. Personally I don't think I will ever beat the game, I just don't see it as that type of game I guess. I don't know about perfected. I definitely don't know about hundreds of games either. If you can provide a list of even 10 *well received* games that all use exactly the methodology suggested, I would be quite impressed. Excluding the games Sonic, Saira, and A Valley Without Wind 1/2 (because they aren't installed). I have a total of 3 games with platform navigation involved. Starbound Rogue Legacy Terraria They all use different control schemes to fall through platforms. Though my sample is quite small it would seem your assumption, that there is a norm by which developers already follow, is a false one. I've got my money riding on them having carefully decided how to code this particular aspect of the game, seeing how they've put so much thought and excellence into a number of other areas of the game. However I think we can all agree, if the developers want to change the controls they will. If they didn't have a good reason for breaking convention, a convention which from what I can tell does not exist, then they may very well fix the platform mechanics. Perhaps it is going to be redone for 1.1 or perhaps they have never considered this before, and it will be fixed in 1.0.6 or 7. (Speaking of, I wonder if I should post a bug about the jumping up issue when trying to fall through a platform; though this can be avoided if you hold down long enough to fully pass the platform with your feet, it is detrimental to gameplay.) One way or the other, I hope you all get something to address your problems with platforms. Asserting there is a normal, or correct, way to design a game is like saying there is a normal way to compose music, or make art in general. I hope, that we all know that isn't true. The decisions a developer makes about their games controls are like an artist deciding what direction to make their brush strokes in, they are gonna do what they *feel* is right for the work at hand. All any of us can do, is voice opinions and support those opinions with evidence and/or arguments. None of us can presume to know for fact what motives went into creating the controls, not beyond what they have said themselves about creating and designing the game. Even those may not hold true for a particular aspect of the game. I hate being the naysayer, but when I see a false assumption or argument being held so high, it is like an itch you have to scratch. I hope I have caused no offense by being such an active voice in the thread; I have had only the best intentions in mind.
As far as I know, Rogue Legacy and Terraria don't have a crouch command bound on "down" so they can use the "just press down to jump down a platform" control mode. Starbound does allow one to crouch though so unless you want to see people complain about falling down into lava when they wanted to duck under an arrow you shouldn't do it like that. Note also that Rogue Legacy uses an option to allow you that control mode and it's NOT the default. If you take the Castlevania games on the GBA and DS (and IIRC the grand classic SOTN on PS) you need to crouch + jump to go down one platform. One difference though is that if I'm not mistake, you CANNOT go down more than one platform per jump. You need to have your feets touching the ground and repeat the command to jump down more. In fact, Rogue Legacy default control mode is identical with that one. A constant though is that in all platformers that allow you to jump down multiple platforms at once, you need to release the last button you pressed to stop that mode. Aka, on Terraria you press "down", you cross platforms. You release "down" you stop. On Starbound if SHOULD be : you press "jump" while crouched, you go down, you release "jump" (or crouch) you stop. The non respect of that convention is probably the main reason people are confused and complain about the control scheme.
